All things happen for a reason?

[Willow]

It's a common phrase that's often said to someone who is going through a rough patch. When things don't turn out the way they were expected to, or when something goes terribly awry that was entirely unexpected.

Everything happens for a reason. It's to get you out of a rut and open the path you're supposed to be walking.

It comes up when someone loses their job unexpectedly, when a pet passes on, when a loved one falls ill, when a wedding is cancelled, and everything in between.

Aside from a socially common phrase, it's also a concept I put a lot of weight in when it comes to my own path. Not in small part due to how many times, and to the extremes, that my own life plans have been derailed in ways that make salvage impossible; and how because of those derailments new information and options have come to light. Most importantly, new revelations in how I see myself, my life, my path, and how they have brought me such profound answers to questions I didn't know I had to begin with.

And then there are those other mishaps in life that seem to have been caused by no reason other than spite or laziness from someone else that have cost you time, money, or health; that seem to really lead nowhere good and even after several years it hasn't opened new doors or lead to a better understanding. I have a few of these too that I've been mulling over for the better part of 4 years now; and I would like to see the opinions and perspectives of our wise and knowledgeable members (yep, I'm shamelessly attempting to score some brownie points, but it doesn't mean it's not true).

What are your thoughts on this phrase/concept?

[anunitu]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I kind of went through this when I did the major depression thing. I was told it was a chemical thing. In the deep part of the depression I kept thinking "What does not kill you" thing. What really got me out of the depression was when I was in the mental health system,and met really mental folks,the schizophrenics who heard voices,the people that cut themselves,the ones that would NEVER get better...I tried helping them to cope,and understood I was not that bad,and could climb back to I guess being normal. My bad, was pretty simple compared to really bad places people go to.

[Gleb]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

Interesting thought. I payed attention to that a while ago. So in this case, are you saying I had to be born to an abusive family in order to find Kemetism?

[Willow]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

Interesting thought. I payed attention to that a while ago. So in this case, are you saying I had to be born to an abusive family in order to find Kemetism?

Not at all. Particularly because I'm not sure what you mean by "in this case?"

It's not really a question about individual experiences and current situations; more about the concept of a lack of coincidences or the idea of "fate."

[Gleb]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

Not at all. Particularly because I'm not sure what you mean by "in this case?"

It's not really a question about individual experiences and current situations; more about the concept of a lack of coincidences or the idea of "fate."

I see. Thank you.

[thalassa]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I think things do happen for a reason...but not some sort of fate. Cause and effect of billions of choices made by billions of people. Whether or not that reason is meaningful though, is up to us.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I think things do happen for a reason...but not some sort of fate. Cause and effect of billions of choices made by billions of people. Whether or not that reason is meaningful though, is up to us.

I close my eyes
Only for a moment, then the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind

[Medusa]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

This phrase is used when you can't actually see the reason. Usually because it is either 'you dun goofed' or 'someone dun goofed on you'.

Either way you got to clean up the mess. Even when you don't know what you are cleaning up.

[Jembru]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I guess everything happens for a reason. I mean, if a tree falls down, it fell for a reason.. because someone cut it, it was hollowed by disease, there was a storm..

But maybe I'm confusing reason with cause.

I had to give up on the idea that there is some grand plan for us, or that bad things happen to teach us specific lessons. It's a wonderful idea, but it means that something beyond us is allowing our suffering. That just makes me angry and depressed, so I had to look for a new way of looking at the world through my 'spirit goggles'.

Now I think that we may well have a general plan. Like.. like.. someone arriving in a new country and thinking, 'I'll get a job here'. That's pretty vague, probably not as easy as they thought, and possibly not even possible. But at least they have a plan. Now to make that plan happen, they'll need to be able to take advantage of whatever comes their way. I think our lives are a bit like that. We react differently to different circumstances based on our general plan. If you believe in spirit guides (I do.. but of course, I believe they are conscious beings because I've made them so), then these beings are helping us to react in beneficial ways... indeed, to grow from adversity when faced with it, and turn the downside up. However, I don't believe 'Goddess wants me to learn humility so she gave me cancer'. I couldn't love any being that could do such a thing. Instead I believe, 'Spirit wants me to be happy and healthy, so she gave me the skills to avoid pain and illness as far as possible...' what I do with those skills though, is only in my control.

[Shinjin]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I do not believe that "everything happens for a reason" is used in the right context, at all.

I am more akin to believe what Jembru believes:

When someone dies of a heart-attack, suddenly, without warning, they tend to say this.

Matter of fact is, it indeed happens for a reason; old age, too much of the good candy, etc etc.

Tree falls down, someone cut it. Sheep disappears randomly, wolf ate it.

We have a general pathway, but we indeed have some say in what we do, who we do, when we do, how we do, and where we do.

The Gods don't rob people of their choices, he makes them for you to choose. He gave you a free will, use it

[Riothamus12]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

All things do happen for a reason. Either because someone learned a lesson or did not or because they are being guided somewhere. However, it doesn't need to be fated for it to have happened for a reason. The reason could be because you made one choice rather than another,

[Willow]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I just wanted to say that I have been reading the responses as they come up and I've been mulling them over. When I get a few more brain cells to wake up, I'll actually post some real responses.

[gelman66]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

Everything happens for a reason? The majority of people on this planet are born into soul crushing poverty and are barely given a chance to figure anything out, other than to figure where their next meal is coming from. Why? What the purpose of that? Thousands of children dies every day from preventable disease, have no access to clean water, and barely adequate shelter, and we the fortunate few cling to the idea that there is a reason for all this. All the random bad things that happen to otherwise good people make a mockery of any kind of cause and effect, that Gods or Gods control everything and punish the evil and reward the good. Many of those who survived the Holocaust had they faith destroyed by it, and rightly believed that God had forsaken them.

So it is a test? The idea that "What doesn't kill you make you stronger." But then what about who are crushed by the test? Does that make them lesser or less worthy? What kind of God is constantly his people anyway?

I think its difficulty for human beings to accept there is no order, no structure, no purpose, even if it is true. I don't have all the answers and the reality is there may an order that is beyond us, beyond our limited comprehension.

[Willow]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I kind of went through this when I did the major depression thing. I was told it was a chemical thing. In the deep part of the depression I kept thinking "What does not kill you" thing. What really got me out of the depression was when I was in the mental health system,and met really mental folks,the schizophrenics who heard voices,the people that cut themselves,the ones that would NEVER get better...I tried helping them to cope,and understood I was not that bad,and could climb back to I guess being normal. My bad, was pretty simple compared to really bad places people go to.

I never would have guessed you had been in the mental health system.

I know what you mean about that distinction between having a rough spot and going into those dark places and not being able to find a way out. It's not something everyone thinks about, or encounters personally, and it can be a real eye opener. That, and things like chronic pain and physical disabilities that prevent people from doing what others take for granted.

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I think things do happen for a reason...but not some sort of fate. Cause and effect of billions of choices made by billions of people. Whether or not that reason is meaningful though, is up to us.

This is true, cause and effect is essential physics and nothing really happens in a vacuum in our reality.

I guess the definition of "fate" will vary from person to person, as does the response to the question. And I really doubt anyone will ever come to a general agreement on what is and isn't true, but it's still neat seeing the different perspectives, opinions, experiences, and all that.

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This phrase is used when you can't actually see the reason. Usually because it is either 'you dun goofed' or 'someone dun goofed on you'.

Either way you got to clean up the mess. Even when you don't know what you are cleaning up.

I actually mulled those four sentences over for roughly half my shift today at work. Maybe it's because I really like the word "goofed." =P But it makes a lot of sense, both with and without the "reasoning" idea applied to it. Although if there was a reason, I doubt it would be for individual benefit.

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I guess everything happens for a reason. I mean, if a tree falls down, it fell for a reason.. because someone cut it, it was hollowed by disease, there was a storm..

But maybe I'm confusing reason with cause.

I had to give up on the idea that there is some grand plan for us, or that bad things happen to teach us specific lessons. It's a wonderful idea, but it means that something beyond us is allowing our suffering. That just makes me angry and depressed, so I had to look for a new way of looking at the world through my 'spirit goggles'.

Now I think that we may well have a general plan. Like.. like.. someone arriving in a new country and thinking, 'I'll get a job here'. That's pretty vague, probably not as easy as they thought, and possibly not even possible. But at least they have a plan. Now to make that plan happen, they'll need to be able to take advantage of whatever comes their way. I think our lives are a bit like that. We react differently to different circumstances based on our general plan. If you believe in spirit guides (I do.. but of course, I believe they are conscious beings because I've made them so), then these beings are helping us to react in beneficial ways... indeed, to grow from adversity when faced with it, and turn the downside up. However, I don't believe 'Goddess wants me to learn humility so she gave me cancer'. I couldn't love any being that could do such a thing. Instead I believe, 'Spirit wants me to be happy and healthy, so she gave me the skills to avoid pain and illness as far as possible...' what I do with those skills though, is only in my control.

That's a very interesting paragraph; in drawing that distinction between chronic challenges aimed toward a specific lesson, and personal reactions to life circumstances.

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I do not believe that "everything happens for a reason" is used in the right context, at all.

I am more akin to believe what Jembru believes:

When someone dies of a heart-attack, suddenly, without warning, they tend to say this.

Matter of fact is, it indeed happens for a reason; old age, too much of the good candy, etc etc.

Tree falls down, someone cut it. Sheep disappears randomly, wolf ate it.

We have a general pathway, but we indeed have some say in what we do, who we do, when we do, how we do, and where we do.

The Gods don't rob people of their choices, he makes them for you to choose. He gave you a free will, use it

But... I like the good candy.
I tend to be in that same category of having free will and choice, but it's those big life-changing events that twist your world beyond what it used to be and turn it into something you hadn't formerly known was possible that I wonder about these days. Especially when it happens several times in a short time-frame. Of course, there are cause-and-effect relationships between events and we do what we can do given our circumstances and limitations.

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All things do happen for a reason. Either because someone learned a lesson or did not or because they are being guided somewhere. However, it doesn't need to be fated for it to have happened for a reason. The reason could be because you made one choice rather than another,

So in this scenario, would you say that while all things do happen for some reason or another, not all those reasons would be considered fate? As in, they have a cause but the event may not actually lead you down a path where you're necessarily "supposed" to be or go at that point in time?

Sorry if my words don't make sense, my brain is still recovering from the black mold that came into work today.

[MaskedOne]

Re: All things happen for a reason?

I don't have any strong objections (not to say I agree, just don't have a strong disagreement) to, "everything happens for a reason."

I have issues with "everything happens for a reason that has any relevance to my life."

Lots of things are happening at any given moment. Any number might impact you but aren't themselves in any way connected to whatever is going on in your life. You just have the luck (sometimes good, sometimes bad) to get caught in the ripples.