Purity Ball

[Bartmanhomer]

What's a purity ball?

[Medusa]

You have a dance with your dad and promise him you will stay a virgin till you get married.
I've wondered why they don't have a mother/son version of this.
Nah. I don't wonder. I know why they don't.

[monsno_leedra]

Not sure I know though I suspect it's probably something like a purity promise. One of those things you swear upon to retain your virginity until married and not experiment with other bad things as it were.

But perhaps if you explained in what content your heard about it or associate it might be better able to answer.

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You have a dance with your dad and promise him you will stay a virgin till you get married.
I've wondered why they don't have a mother/son version of this.
Nah. I don't wonder. I know why they don't.

Hm, I though those were still called chastity belts.

[Medusa]

It's an actual dancing ball event. Dad and pure daughters. Which means blow jobs and the back door forbidden love. I ain't even joking.

[Hawkfeathers]

It's an actual dancing ball event. Dad and pure daughters. Which means blow jobs and the back door forbidden love. I ain't even joking.

Like when someone says she's "technically" a virgin. Ha! That's gone on forever, but now it's like a debutante ceremony to announce it. These balls are yet another huge money-maker for florists, photographers, dress stores, etc.

[Medusa]

This is what purity balls looks like.
purity ball photos. Or what I like to call the pre pole days./ (http://aattp.org/ten-photos-that-prove-christian-purity-balls-are-the-creepiest-thing-ever-images/)

Seriously creeped out. How come some of the girls have their eyes closed?

[Bartmanhomer]

So it's actually a father-daughter dance. The reason why I asked this question because I was watching a recent episode of Law and Order: SVU. And in that episode there was this dance between a father and daughter. So I wasn't so sure what's the purpose of a Purity Ball. So I've to ask this question.

[B. de Corbin]

This is what purity balls looks like.
purity ball photos. Or what I like to call the pre pole days./ (http://aattp.org/ten-photos-that-prove-christian-purity-balls-are-the-creepiest-thing-ever-images/)

Seriously creeped out. How come some of the girls have their eyes closed?

Girl in the sixth pic looks about ready to spew. Girl with the Marine father looks a might too close for family.

Why are the plants all dead in the pictures? Symbolic of something?

[anunitu]

As a kid,our main thing for the boys was "Play ball,and stay out of Juvy"...Bout 60 percent of my friends growing up hit that Juvy trip..might have been a higher percent,some went on to become hells Angels,Latin gangs..and black power groups..black gangs. Me,I tried to stay out of cages..they suck!

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Here is an idea,want them to stay "Pure"...chastity belt,and one of those Islamic pup tent deals they make their women wear.

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Found this and wanted to laugh my butt off.
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/burka-407143.jpg

[Eofor]

You must really distrust your daughter (and/or be a huge religious fanatic) to do it. The photographs gave me goosebumps.

[DavidMcCann]

I'm (almost) speechless. Wikipedia tells me that it was invented by Randy Wilson, which is rather nice, given the meaning of "randy" in British slang!

[Bartmanhomer]

I didn't realized that a purity ball would be that creepy. :O

[habbalah]

So it's actually a father-daughter dance. The reason why I asked this question because I was watching a recent episode of Law and Order: SVU. And in that episode there was this dance between a father and daughter. So I wasn't so sure what's the purpose of a Purity Ball. So I've to ask this question.

It's not just a dance. Besides that, the girl wears a "purity ring" that's a vow that she'll stay a virgin until marriage, because her virginity basically belongs to her father. I find the entire practice creepy and not a small bit incestuous.

[Eofor]

her virginity basically belongs to her father

Now this is disturbing.

[thalassa]

Daughter-father dances are cute. Purity balls are creepy. Nuance, context, and purpose is important.

Also, when I've seed daughter -father dances, its usually for preteen or younger girls...a way to dress up and pretend to be fancy. Not some creepy faux marriage.

[habbalah]

Daughter-father dances are cute. Purity balls are creepy. Nuance, context, and purpose is important.

Also, when I've seed daughter -father dances, its usually for preteen or younger girls...a way to dress up and pretend to be fancy. Not some creepy faux marriage.

A friend of mine had a purity ball as a young teen, so she explained the whole thing to me. So creepy.

[B. de Corbin]

I enjoyed dancing with my daughter at her wedding.

I know - I "own her" and was giving her away, so that's bad.

Or, maybe, I was celebrating her happiness in finding and establishing a new family, and appreciating the continuance of the family values we enjoyed as a family.

When family matters turn into political decisions, things have already gone down the crapper.

As Master Lao said:

"when the Tao us lost, there is goodness.
When the goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
The beginning of chaos."

[habbalah]

That's not the same thing as a purity ball. Purity balls are to pledge virginity until marriage to the father. It's not the dancing at all that bothers me.

[thalassa]

I enjoyed dancing with my daughter at her wedding.

I know - I "own her" and was giving her away, so that's bad.

Or, maybe, I was celebrating her happiness in finding and establishing a new family, and appreciating the continuance of the family values we enjoyed as a family.The beginning of chaos."

Its not about a daughter dancing with her dad (or mother her son)...maybe its a southern/church thing (they still do cotillion here too), but civic groups will hold prom/homecoming dances for fathers and daughters--usually aimed at an age group where the kids aren't dating age yet, or around Father's Day. There's also an idea of the (perhaps poorly named) father-daughter date (http://www.focusonthefamily.com/parenting/parenting-roles/fatherhood/a-date-with-dad)--a father takes his daughter out using all the good manners that he would hope a boy would have for her when she gets to that age.

The pledge:


For Fathers:
I (Daughter’s Name)’s Father, choose before to God to war for my daughter’s purity. I acknowledge myself as the authority and protector of my daughter’s virginity, and pledge to be a man of integrity as I lead, guide, and pray over my daughter and her virginity – as the High Priest of my home.


For Virgins:
I (Name) pledge my purity to my father, my future/husband and my Creator. I recognize that virginity is my most precious gift to offer to my future husband. I will not engage in sexual activity of any kind before marriage but will keep my thought and my body pure as a very special present for the one I marry.


For Secondary Virgins (those who have engaged in promiscuous behavior) and wish to recommit themselves to lives of purity):

I (Name) re–pledge my purity to my father, my future/husband and my Creator. I now recognize that virginity is my most precious gift to offer my future husband. I deeply regret and will never again engage in sexual activity of any kind before marriage but will keep my thought and my body pure as a very special present for the one I marry.

source (https://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/whats-wrong-with-purity-balls-one-virgins-perspective/)


Purity Balls are not just a dance (whether we are talking about dancing or an event). It's a fancy dance and a religious ceremony where daughters pledge their virginity (and sometimes also their chastity--which are not entirely the same thing) to god and their fathers and their fathers pledging to uphold their purity. There is generally an exchange of gift-symbols---the daughter gives a gold key (representing...well, that should be obvious) to her father who gives her some sort of jewelry (sometimes a necklace or bracelet, or more often a purity ring)...there is also the offering of a white rose as a symbol of the vow to god, that the girls lay down at a cross in some of them.

The problem of Purity Balls is that they are emblematic of the problem of purity, period. (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/the-purity-culture) It's like the Snow White apple---it looks like the perfect apple on the outside, but when you actually bite down on it, it's something completely different. The words don't sound bad at all--I'd agree, sex should be intentional, relationships should be about respect, one should love themselves and not seek validation from relationships/sex---but because those things aren't healthy, not because they are inherently sinful and something to be shamed for. Fathers and daughters SHOULD spend time together and have a healthy relationship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UyjKdjJY5k

I'm going to borrow someone else's words for my criticism of this, because (IMO) its pretty much spot on:



Why not teach girls other ways to be validated? Why not teach girls to value their skills and abilities and dreams, rather than to equate their worth with their bodies or beauty? Why not teach girls that they are internally valuable, and that what males around them think of them is completely irrelevant to that?


Instead, the father / daughter purity culture feeds the idea that girls are only valuable inasmuch as they are valued in the eyes of the men around them, be that their boyfriends or their fathers. It teaches girls that their value lies in their bodies and in their relationship to men. It tells girls that it is healthy to pin your source of validation to male affirmation, but that that affirmation should come from their fathers rather than from boyfriends.


I talked last week about how Vision Forum pinpoints real problems (http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/09/vision-forum-fixing-problems-by-turning.html) with society but fixes them by simply strengthening the root cause of the problems. There is a similar phenomenon going on in the case of purity balls. Randy and others like him are responding to a very real problem in society today: teenage girls who tie their self worth to their latest boyfriend, have irresponsible sex simply to feel valuable and loved, and have no real confidence in themselves. The reality is that there are plenty of teenage girls who are dating around and having irresponsible sex as a way to feel loved and valued and worthwhile.


But, like Vision Forum, the father / daughter purity culture completely misses the mark with its solution. It fixes the problem by replacing the boyfriend with the father rather than by teaching girls that they are valuable for who they are, not who they are with or what they do with their bodies. Rather than tackling the root of the problem, the purity culture simply feeds it.

(snip)

It is not healthy for any female, be she a young girl or a full grown woman, to tie her self worth to what the men in her life think about her. This is the root of the problem here, not sex, not dating, not boys. But somehow, the purity culture cannot see that it plays into the very problem it seeks to combat. And this breaks my heart.


Of course, the replacing of the boyfriend / girlfriend relationship with the father / daughter relationship is only one piece of this putrid puzzle. There’s also the reality that the purity culture’s solution to high STD and teen pregnancy rates is not to teach teens to exercise their sexuality responsibly but rather to do away with it altogether. As I watched the documentary at the top of this page, the different men over and over again talked of the problems of STDs and teen pregnancy, to the point that I wondered if even they knew about the existence of birth control and condoms. It’s like banning teens from driving because of the large percentage of teens who get in accidents rather than simply improving driver’s education.


If you watch the documentary, I think the most telling comment is the idea that dating, etc, is "giving little pieces of your heart away" in such a way that it means you are less of a person for whomever you decide to marry.

[Tylluan Penry]

Ye gods! I'm glad I'm not young again if this is the way things are going! I never danced with my father - ever. Nor with any of my uncles. Nor my brothers (and yes in case you were wondering, I really loved dancing.) The thought of pledging virginity to any male is just revolting IMHO - and the reason, as far as I'm concerned is that the whole question of virginity is grossly overrated.

It's a bit like saying, 'I'm special cos I never had measles.' ;)

[Medusa]

I like how nowhere it says I'm keeping my virginity for me. These girls are the ones that either ride a pole later on, or vote to rule my uterus. They want everyone as miserable as them. I sincerely hate these things.

[monsno_leedra]

Of course consider just how close this is to the honor aspect of the Muslim faith for proper female behavior. Granted these fathers do not tend to kill their daughters if they dishonor the family by breaking the purity oath though.

[Medusa]

Of course consider just how close this is to the honor aspect of the Muslim faith for proper female behavior. Granted these fathers do not tend to kill their daughters if they dishonor the family by breaking the purity oath though.

I guess their faith isn't totally faithful. Weaklings.

[Eofor]

I don't see the same talk with christian boys (and my entire family is christian). The problem isn't only the religious aspect of chastity and virginity, but also the way their daughters are treated when compared to their sons. It's also a social issue and there's a lot of sexism in this ritual. So the girls should reserve their virginity to their future husbands? How about the boys? Is their virginity also THAT important to their god and family? Is this "divine purity" demanded of them, too? Or is it cool if they just go around having sex? I also imagine if the girl is homosexual. It doesn't seem that they have much freedom to talk about what they want. It's somewhat oppressing IMO.

[B. de Corbin]

I'm guessing that it has something to do with the fact that women get preggers and men don't, and how that played out historically in a certain part of the world, via relgious & cultural traditions/laws.

I dunno. Just a guess.

(Side note: It is hilarious watching people notice that things which may have once served a purpose, became holy juju, progessed in an increasing repressive way, and continued long after the original purpose was forgotten, are illogical. This is religion we're talking here, kids, not science.)

[DavidMcCann]

Don't forget that pre-marital sex used to be a criminal offence in 16 US states until the Supreme Court banned that at late as the 1970s!

[DragonsFriend]

Modern vows of chastity are not becoming more popular. They are becoming more widely reported.
Both young men and young women participate in chastity before marriage life styles. It is equally difficult for both genders for some of the same reasons and for very different reasons. Sometimes it is a religious or faith act and sometimes it is just personal perception of their own preferences. Although the vows are taken with all sincerity, they do not necessarily remain in place until marriage. The instinct to procreate is the second strongest instinct we have.

[kalynraye]

But Purity Balls are just for young girls of christian faith, these are not for young men. This is not about young men pledging their virginity to their mothers. This is about young GIRLS pledging their virginity and value to their fathers. A women's virginity is NOT her most precious gift, and I don't believe idolizing it is healthy. Teach your girls to have self worth, and teach your boys to respect women.

[Eofor]

I get the historical point of view and stuff. Thing is, purity ball is something new, not some kind of ancient ritual. According to Wikipedia, at least, the first purity ball was realised in 1998.


Teach your girls to have self worth, and teach your boys to respect women.

This.

[B. de Corbin]

I get the historical point of view and stuff. Thing is, purity ball is something new, not some kind of ancient ritual. According to Wikipedia, at least, the first purity ball was realised in 1998.

was there a moratorium put on the creation of religious rituals at some time in the past, and I missed the memo?

:cool:

[Eofor]

was there a moratorium put on the creation of religious rituals at some time in the past, and I missed the memo?

:cool:

Not at all :p I was just pointing that purity ball wasn't created just because parents were concerned about their daughters getting pregnant.

[B. de Corbin]

No - it was created based on the particular beliefs of a particular sect based on their particular religious traditions.

I don't agree with those beliefs. To me, "virgin" just means "clumsy beginner."

But then I gotta live with that... I don't agree with most religious beliefs. They mostly seem - to me - equally goofy.

If we're gonna get snarky with Christians for having outmoded, irrational, and silly beliefs, we might just as well launch snark at, maybe, 90% of pagans as well.

[anunitu]

Thing is the whole history of marriage thing has to do with LEGAL setting of inheritance. I have read that in the WAY back,you just moved in together,and wham-bam you was hitched.

Also,love had little to do with it,as parents set you up with a rich guy,so both families more powerful because of combining land.

[thalassa]

But then I gotta live with that... I don't agree with most religious beliefs. They mostly seem - to me - equally goofy.



Goofy is one thing...these are (IMO) damaging to many of these girls in the long run.

...let me just say that (again, IMO) a self-actualized person doesn't consider pre-marital relationships as making them a lesser person for their future husband.

[B. de Corbin]

Goofy is one thing...these are (IMO) damaging to many of these girls in the long run.

...let me just say that (again, IMO) a self-actualized person doesn't consider pre-marital relationships as making them a lesser person for their future husband.

I can agree with that. I find much harm perpetrated in much religion.

However, trying to avoid being accused of being an evil atheist, I didn't say it.

Now that the cat's outta the bag, though...

[anunitu]

Most likely why you became a knight that says NI

http://wiki.godvillegame.com/images/4/4d/Ni_we_are.jpg

[Azvanna]

Purity balls are so far out of my experience within Pentecostal churches and within my own family, I find it hard to relate to them, but I'm not offended or revolted by them. They must be an American thing. In my churches, abstinence was discussed with teenagers and young adults but boys and girls both were given equal responsibility for this. I'm really curious as to what these dads think their role is when it comes to their children's sexuality. Me not having a dad, I have no clue on that aspect of the relationship. It's not something I'd ever ask someone.



...let me just say that (again, IMO) a self-actualized person doesn't consider pre-marital relationships as making them a lesser person for their future husband.

That depends on so much, but I do agree. The main concern my husband and I discussed very briefly was that the other would be accepting of our respective histories. This isn't because of any guilt we felt, but because of the teaching we each received from our churches. We were genuinely concerned that a might be a big deal to the other.

Within our churches, we are taught that sexual experiences are a way to enhance love within a marriage relationship. It's a spiritual, emotional and physical act that has effects across all those areas. I've got no problem with that teaching.

I think the teaching on abstinence itself is okay, but it would be better if it were a choice the child makes. I'm not sure how the pre-adolescent girls pictures could be making such a choice. The purity balls seem to belie a different issue altogether... The responsibility the father takes for his daughter 's sexuality and her level of accountability to him. It's a mystery to me.

[B. de Corbin]

I wonder if it's bad to tell someone they are going to go to hell for jackin' or jillin' off, or for telling them that God hates queers?

Ni. Ni. Ni.

Azvanna, I was raised Roman Catholic in America. To the best of my knowledge, the only interest my dad took in my sister's virginity was to make sure she got home at a decent hour, and chaising off the less desirable fellas.

The only thing I got from either parent was "treat women with respect," a thing that, even as an atheist, I still think is meaningful.

[Azvanna]

A women's virginity is NOT her most precious gift, and I don't believe idolizing it is healthy. Teach your girls to have self worth, and teach your boys to respect women.

Exactly right. A bit of balance.

[Hawkfeathers]

Abstinence is much easier when one knows what one is missing out on. Waiting to first try something is harder because of the mystique.

[ThePaganMafia]

To many dads interested in their daughters sex lives IMO

[kalynraye]

I totally agree with that sentiment.