Plus size VS Model thin..

[anunitu]

Saw this about plus size models and Model thin images and I wondered about bone thin images.

This is plus size..looks like most of the women I knew in the REAL world.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/89/92/d8/8992d83337549cc3763fe04369844871.jpg

Now the model thin image kinda made me think of the Holocaust images.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/09/skinny200906_228x592.jpg


I do wonder about society and its idea of beauty in some circles.

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And this image kinda shocked me..

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/06/04/1226069/307438-thin-models.jpg

[iris]

I will try very hard not to bite anyone's head off here.
The first one might have a few extra kilos than what would be considdered 'normal' (what is normal anyway), she's pretty, she's probably perfectly healthy so who cares. That's what matters isn't it? Health.
now. The second one I see nothing wrong with either. Some women do look like that too. I am one of those women, and I am sick of defending my right to look like that. Or getting told that I'm not beautiful, or a woman, because I don't have curves. Can't we just agree that what matters is how healthy you are, not how much you weigh? Both of those women look healthy to me...

Despite being model sized I can never find clothes that fit because, here at least, they're made for. Ehm. Bustier women once they hit the stores, despite what the models on the runway look like...
I never considdered the fashion industry a measurement of beauty, I never understood people who do. It's more of an art form... who would wear most of the stuff that comes down tfe runway in paris? I for one rarely find myself painted silver wearing a seethrough dress with feather stuck on (no but really... look at some of it!)...
I think it's problematic that the models are ALL thin and tall. But I hate that whole idea that they should all be bigger because it's 'not natural' or 'normal' to look like that. Well, I do, and I wanna be here too!... get my drift?.. diversity. That's the key.

ad for the last picture. Yea. She's very underweight. I also see the letters 'Anor' and 'i' printed beside her, so I'm guessing it's probably about anorexia... just a guess. But out of context there's no knowing, so I'm not gonna get worked up over it.

Sorry if I strayed too much, or ranted too much.

[Hawkfeathers]

I've been all over the size range in my lifetime, and it's really weird how people treat each other based on that.

[Bartmanhomer]

Plus size models rules! I wouldn't mind dating a plus size model. :D

[anunitu]

My post was more about the idea that only super thin is ok,and it came from Cheryl Tiegs who had this to say.

LOS ANGELES, Feb. 26 (UPI) -- Former model Cheryl Tiegs blasted the new swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated because she thinks cover model Ashley Graham's full figure is not healthy.

This is what I was on about.

Full figure,thin figure, and the attack on all of them because it does not fit the "Norm,that sellers sell"

Link for Story. (http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2016/02/26/Former-model-Cheryl-Tiegs-blasts-Sports-Illustrated-full-figured-swimsuit-cover/6101456469151/)

[TxanGoddess]

Well quite apart from images, which have obvious power to shape people's consciousness, I think that the sizing of clothes is an even more subtle problem that can make women feel uncertain about their bodies.

It may seem like just a number, but it's terribly depressing to try to shop and find things that look good on you when you're an 8 at one shop and a 12 at another one, regardless of weight. Or even worse, a different size for a different brand even from the same place.

I'm 5'7 and I've weighed everywhere from 98 pounds to 180 pounds, and my weight has never made me feel badly about my unclothed body (though gravity has occasionally begun to now that I am pushing 40 lol). But nothing will make me feel fat, ugly, dumpy, shaped weird, too big here, too small there etc etc like trying to pick out clothes that look good on me. I walk in feeling great, but on 90% of shopping trips I walk out sad.

I wish they would just standardize sizes instead of this stupidity of cheap clothes running smaller and expensive ones running larger.

[DavidMcCann]

Cheryl Tiegs does have a point about health. We all know (unless we live in a cave) that a lot of the health problems arising in later life are associated with being overweight. Claims that slim models promote anorexia are just silly: anyone should be able to see the difference between the second and third pictures in the original post. In the UK, women are 30 times more likely to be obese than anorexic, but we never get complaints about the appearance of Rebel Wilson on TV promoting obesity.

Personally, I think the woman in the second picture looks great!

[faye_cat]

The thing about plus size models is that plus size, as defined by the fashion industry, is typically a size 12 and above (some sites say 10 above, others 14 above, I've even some size 8s be referred to as plus sized).

The average woman is a size 14. So already the average woman is a plus size person, but the fashion industry ignores them and designs their clothes for the smaller sizes. Models are usually required to be thin for many reasons: less fabric used on clothing, less variation in body types which means they can easily switch out if a model isn't able to appear/they don't have models' measurements, etc.

Don't get me wrong, the top two models in the OP are gorgeous. Ultimately, as long as someone is healthy, I'm happy. And people have so many variations on body types, we really can't necessarily judge someone's health by it. I think Cheryl Tiegs is wrong in her statement, because there are people who have more heft on them that are in way better shape than me and eat better, exercise more, etc.

The fashion industry though, oh man. They are so cutthroat and the way they treat models is abhorrent and just urgh. I'm so glad more "plus size" models are being recognized. I also think the industry is messed up because there is no way to actual measure the sizes for women's wear. As someone mentioned above, in some stores/brands I'm a size 14, in others I'm a size 10, and there's a few where I can still wear juniors. It's a mess, and there needs to be an overhaul.

[Bartmanhomer]

I think it all depends on the models self-esteem. So many disrespectful people are saying that "you're too skinny to be a model." to thin models and other disrespectful people are saying that "you're too fat to be a model." and models lose their self-esteem by hearing those hurtful words. :(

[Medusa]

I'm all for fat or skinny. I mean so what. What I'm not for is making a comment out of 'care' to a heavier woman. All in the guise of 'caring'. You don't effing care about my health. Shut your pie hole.

Sorta like that. That's how I feel.



I want pie.

[thalassa]

Western medicine's ideas of what a "healthy" weight is isn't supported by anything other than Western medicine's idea of what a "healthy" weight it--the Western diet, of course, being a hot mess...and the assumption is that being overweight is a) preventable by "health" and b) that eschewing or controlling calories from such a diet means that you are somehow healthier. And TBH, Western medicine doesn't even know what "healthy" is when it comes to weight or truly how one *actually* achieves a "healthy weight".

Morbid obesity is bad for you, yes. But being overweight isn't necessarily bad for you (http://qz.com/550527/obesity-paradox-scientists-now-think-that-being-overweight-is-sometimes-good-for-your-health/). As a (former) corpsman, I've seen any number of fit looking, exercising, fit eating people keel over of an early heart attack, clock in with uber high BP, have LDLs off the charts, and even be Type II Diabetics. And, I'd not be at all surprised to find that that being overweight or even mildly obese with a non-Western (or non-standard Western-ish) diet is healthier than being a "healthy weight" on a Western diet.


The failings of the Western diet and Western medicine aside, as a former teenage girl with teenage girl friends, that later was a camp counselor for teenage girls, and went on to serve as a medic for plenty of teenage girls (right out of boot camp), I find the idea that skinny models, magazines and the media, and the fashion industry promoting anorexia (or other eating disorders) "are just silly" be a dangerous and very untrue idea. Additionally, being overweight does not make one immune to anorexia or bulimia (nor does it mean that either one is "safer" than if you are skinny since the assumption is that you can stand to loose a few).




And this:


I'm all for fat or skinny. I mean so what. What I'm not for is making a comment out of 'care' to a heavier woman. All in the guise of 'caring'. You don't effing care about my health. Shut your pie hole.

Sorta like that. That's how I feel.



But I like blackberry cobbler better than pie.

Otherwise hell-to-the-yes.


And I think the first pic is hot.

[Jembru]

I've come to realise that the media is there to sell us a version of reality that is similar to the real world but just a bit 'better' because there's no profit to be made from people who are happy with what they have and who they are. It's not a big conspiracy, like everyone got around the table and said 'let's make everyone feel inferior..' but rather, it's a consequence of a capitalist culture. We are shown a world where beauty is superficial, because we can't buy personality. An exaggerated version of beauty is used because those trying to sell us the clothes or products can't afford to lose potential customers because of our individual preferences on what counts as beauty. So they airbrush and photoshop their models to appeal to the widest possible audience. A concept the biologists amongst you will be familiar with as a 'supernormal stimulus'.

They don't necessarily mean us harm, but companies DO want to make us feel that buying x product will make us as happy or successful as the people in the images (which only works if they make our real lives appear somewhat lacking).

I was going to reply with something similar when Thal posted the morning routine thread, because the author of the article in question is a classic example of someone who has bought the myth and is living a superficial life of fabricated happiness.. 'I'm working out for 3 hours before work, breakfast was a super-juice, my hair is perfect, my clothes are designer.. I'm living the dream...' 'No love, you're reenacting a commercial break...'

It's no secret that I've had body image issues. When I was starting to recover, it was quickly replaced by a feeling of inadequacy over my home and belongings. It was then that I realised those feelings were all linked. Once I realised that it's just an easily salable concept of 'happiness' because the things that truly make us happy can't be bought, I learnt to stop paying it so much attention. Now I can get back to caring about the things that really DO matter.

So.. honestly, I think 'healthy' is as much about what's going on in your head as it is about weight. Sure, if your weight (or lack of) is causing you health problems, or genuinely making you unhappy, then seek support to do something about it if you so wish. But if you think your happiness and wellbeing is dependent on your weight, you're likely to be pretty disappointed when/if you reach that ideal. Just like the 'perfect' woman who wrote that article about succesful women, will no doubt discover (although she'll probably just assume it's because her teeth need more work, or she should get a better car... or cut something else from her diet). Because that world where only beautiful people are happy isn't real. Happy people are happy because they're happy people.. whether they fit the media profile of beautiful or not.

Now.. did someone mention pie?

[Kiesha'ra]

Give me a Romanesque model any day, ladies with curves where they should be, not these airbrushed skeletors

[Hawkfeathers]

In 1980, I was wearing the same bikini Christie Brinkley wore on the Sports Illustrated cover. But I was not having a good time in life, and I was obsessed with thinness. Looking like that did not make anyone magically love me, which is what I was looking for back then. I was starving myself to death based on what the media told me was ideal. Boy have I changed, inside and out. LOL I'm very glad I got over all that, and survived!

[iris]

I'm all for fat or skinny. I mean so what. What I'm not for is making a comment out of 'care' to a heavier woman. All in the guise of 'caring'. You don't effing care about my health. Shut your pie hole.

Sorta like that. That's how I feel.



I want pie.

This. This! Yes.
Happens to skinnier too. Can't tell you hiw often I get 'A bit omore wight would do you good' like that never occured to me... shut up. Mind your own buisinss.

Want ice cream with that? I've got the freezer full.

[Briton]

Sorry, insufficient sample to draw a conclusion.

Please supply more along the lines of the first image.

Yes, both the first and second images can be normal. Not all women have wide hips or rib cage that create hourglass figures, and that's fine.

We all have our own definition of what's beautiful and, let's not fool ourselves, appearance does matter. However, if someone you like doesn't find you attractive, that's fine. Find someone else.

[anunitu]

Truth be told,I have always been very thin..had a 30 inch waist right up till I hit about 55. I was also hit with the "Are you sick" being that thin. I had to eat high calorie stuff all the time just to keep what weight I had. I was what is commonly called wiry,strong but not bulky..to the point it surprised people at how strong I really was. So,I kinda know from a male perspective about this subject.
After 55 I started to collect more weight,I think my metabolism finally slowed enough to gain some extra weight.

[pillar]

I don't mind the plus size model in this post, or the medium size model. But what about men? I personaly like men with some meat on their abs. You don't have to sculpt yourself to the idea of a perfect man, you can be perfect but not have abs. You can be a perfect man and not attract the men/women alike that are represented in this post. You don't have to be the perfect supermodel.

[DanieMarie]

The fashion world is ridiculous. That woman in the original world (while fairly average) is still heavier than a good chunk of "plus sized" models out there. I think age limits would actually fix a lot of it. Whereas in the past (and by "past", I mean 1990), the fashion norm was "tall slim woman," now it's "14-year-old," and adult women have to fit the profile if they want to work. There's a fetishization of young teens, and it's creepy, gross, and wrong.

That being said, I hate a lot of the backlash against thin models in general. There are women that generally have a really slim figure (Audrey Hepburn stands out as an example), and shaming them into feeling like they are not "real women" is wrong and unfair. We are all "real women." We just need to feel comfortable in the skin we're in, and society needs to respect a broader spectrum of body types.

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Cheryl Tiegs does have a point about health. We all know (unless we live in a cave) that a lot of the health problems arising in later life are associated with being overweight.


No, she doesn't. She doesn't know anything about that model or her physical health, and she is not a doctor.

[Medusa]

I just want to know who makes pants for women? Because NO ONE on the planet can just make a decent pair of pants. Not for skinny gals. No for big ones. No one.

[iris]

I just want to know who makes pants for women? Because NO ONE on the planet can just make a decent pair of pants. Not for skinny gals. No for big ones. No one.

Amen! How hard can it be!? When I find a pair that fits I hoard them. Meaning I now have 4 pairs of pants I use... that look exactly the same -.-

[DanieMarie]

I just want to know who makes pants for women? Because NO ONE on the planet can just make a decent pair of pants. Not for skinny gals. No for big ones. No one.

Yep.

Pants aren't something that lend themselves well to standardized sizing. Unlike skirts, shirts, and dresses, they have to fit more or less closely, and women's figures have so many variations (hip-waist ratio! leg length! thigh width!). There's just so much going on. Most people just go with whatever fits the closest. Back in the day, more people tailored their pants. I prefer stretch jeans because you can usually get away with more, but I make most of my other pants for this reason.

We're not really alone in this, though. All of my male friends and relatives complain about the difficulty of finding a pair of men's pants that fit. I know for sure that 90% of pants look weird on my boyfriend, because I've gone shopping with him.

[thalassa]

Amen! How hard can it be!? When I find a pair that fits I hoard them. Meaning I now have 4 pairs of pants I use... that look exactly the same -.-

My favorite pants: http://www.columbia.com/womens-anytime-outdoor-boot-cut-pant-AL8088.html?cgid=women-bottoms&dwvar_AL8088_variationColor=010#start=2

I have them in all 5 colors, and 2 of the black and 2 of the gray. One pair for every day of the week. They are water repellent, SPF 50, and comfy. Plus they actually fit well, once they've been hemmed. The only thing that would make them better are some buttons and tabs to turn them into capris for the summer...though I think they actually make a capri or Bermuda length short version.

[TxanGoddess]

I generally agree with all that has been said about pants, except to say that from my informal polling, boot cut seems to be the style that the most women feel the most comfortable in.

The only thing I would change about my body isn't weight based at all, and that is that I have a very long torso ... makes belting anything at my waist look like a funny mirror image and makes my lower half look saggier than it technically is.

[Medusa]

I just watched a 28 minute 'artisanal' video on the making of non compromised denim pants. All the way from the pick of the cotton in Africa to the way it's dyed.

Of course these are pants for men.

Because ef me. :mad:

[DanieMarie]

The fashion world is ridiculous. That woman in the original world (while fairly average) is still heavier than a good chunk of "plus sized" models out there.

Gah I just re-read this today. I meant "That woman in the original post (while fairly average) is still heavier than a good chunk of models out there." Moral of the story, don't make forum posts while talking to your boyfriend in German on Skype!

Anyway, I wanted to clarify this, because I didn't want to call her fat. I just wanted to point out how a lot of really normal-sized women are "plus size" models. I think it sends a horrible message to women and especially girls, because it basically says that that size is above average, which isn't the case.

[pillar]

here here or is it hear hear. It doesn't matter, what matters is that you're health. You don't have to be a supermodel to be healthy.

[Vanli]

yeah, a lot of people have said it, or something like it, but i only have one problem with naturally skinny models: they are overrepresented in the industry. that said, i hate the ones that starve themselves to stay thin, and i hate that the average healthy woman is, as far as modelling is concerned, plus-sized. I was, apparently, plus sized at size 12, when i was fourteen ... and skinny as can be, for my build. that's aussie sizes, btw. but all the girls i knew were either very petite, as in short and fine boned, 'normal' size, and wearing the same size clothes as me ... or tall (like me), and/or heavily built (not in the sense of the euphemism of fat).

the heavily built ones were either healthy weight for their height, bone structure and musculature, or anorexic because of bullying. admittedly i never really knew many people my age who were overweight, but this focus on skinny being the only form of beautiful is as unhealthy as the attitude that the hourglass figure was the only form of beautiful, which lead to figure-shaping corsets. and pain. lots of pain.

another thing is, taking out of the equation things like weak ankles, and preexisting conditions made worse by weight, being overweight is actually healthier than being underweight, at comparable margins. it's just better known because the upper limit on weight before it causes death is much higher, proportionate to your body's health range, than the lower limit is low ... and that sentence sucked, but the point is there.

also, it's been mentioned before, but current standards of beauty, creepy. skinny, only hair is on your head, strikes me as prepubescent ... and most of the men i know ... aka most of my friends, and friends' hubbys ... don't actually find it beautiful. might just be the crowd i hang with, but what they like are signs that the woman is, shock horror, a woman, and her confidence. that's not to say that all of them go for personality, but they like a mature face, not being able to count their partner's ribs, visible breasts, that sort of thing.


so, in conclusion, i think we're all in agreement that healthy is more attractive than skinny, healthy weight varies from person to person, calling models wearing the most common clothing size 'plus-sized' is stupid, and the current trend of skinny, all bodily hair removed is creepy.

also, standardised sizes are not necessarily good for anyone. especially in pants.

and there's too many super-skinny models.

[DanieMarie]

To be honest, a lot of the weight in modelling, as well as that really "young" look, stems from the age of the models. Models have become younger and younger over the past couple of decades, and a lot of the ones doing ads and magazine spreads are 14-ish. That's how so many of them have those figures. They're not really starving themselves; they just haven't filled out yet. There's a lot of talk about imposing BMI minimums in the industry, but I think imposing age limits would go just as far. It's not a good industry for teen girls, anyway. They're really sexualized a lot of the time, there are a lot of creepy men around, the hours are long (which isn't really great if you're going to school), etc.

[Thorbjorn]

There's a growing trend towards bigger sized male models also. Not everyone can, wants to, or ever will look like the cover models of Men's Health or Men's Fitness, or the uber fit-looking models on tv or in print ads. I may have a bit of a personal bias because I'm a little more than "husky" (an understatement) for my height... 5'5", 215 lbs, 42 waist pants. Of course I spent 15 of the last 20 years power lifting and power eating for it.

My orthopedic surgeon said when he did my lumbar fusion, not only did he get a workout flipping me over (had to open front and back to access my discs and vertebrae), but it was a real job getting into the muscle. The point being that because of my proportions I get the "you got tubby" and "what happened to you?" remarks (ironically, mostly from family) altogether too often. I dread weddings and funerals when I haven't seen relatives in years. I've been body-shamed also, even as a man. I'll try to stay healthy (b.p., b.g. are perfect, total chol. is perfect, LDL and HDL could be better, but that's familial). You can be fit and fat, so looks are deceiving. This idea of the "ideal" male or female shape needs to get kicked to the curb.