Everybody is boycotting North Carolina

[Medusa]

So if you've been living under a rock, or maybe just not an American and living under a rock (because we love to air our dirty bigot laundry all over the globe) here is the lowdown. North Carolina passed a very cruel and probably unconstitutional law pretty much let's be real anti queer law. Most of the states are pretty appalled by the whole thing. And many businesses in all fields have pretty much banned spending money in North Caroline via business transactions/contracts and tourism.

Pretty much if you are a biological man who is trans gendered and living life as a woman..and you gotta pee...you gotta go to the little boy's room.

Because that will end well.

Everyone has a bathroom at home. Both genders have peed and poopied in there. You all lived.


What's your take on this?

[DanieMarie]

I'm totally against the law and think it's unfair to trans people, but I'm not sure boycotting is the way to go. Removing economic opportunities is punishing regular people, not the government. And although the people technically elect the government, I think that's kind of a grey area in the modern state of democracy in the US.

Boycotting a region isn't like boycotting a product or brand. On top of that, when governments make these kinds of decisions, they don't do it out of economic interest. They're doing it out of pure religious conservatism. In other places, sanctions and boycotts haven't tended to work so well when beliefs were involved. Maybe North Carolina could be the exception, but I still think there could be a far better way to protest this law that wouldn't hurt the residents of the state.

[anubisa]

I agree with you DanieMarie. I think it's unfair to transgender people because they were born one way but programmed another. They can't help that they are the way they are. This is not like we are letting rapists in the bathroom with our children. These are people who have rights like we all do to use the damned bathroom without judgment.

[B. de Corbin]

Strange law. If one looks like a woman and enters a woman's bathroom, will that person be frisked to check gender?

It's not enforcible. The only time it would come into actual use is if some problem arose, like an obvious man going into the lady's room.

[thalassa]

Strange law. If one looks like a woman and enters a woman's bathroom, will that person be frisked to check gender?

It's not enforcible. The only time it would come into actual use is if some problem arose, like an obvious man going into the lady's room.


The law is more about the state imposing its will over municipalities.


The same bill prevents the same town (that passed the trans protection ordinances), along with any other that wanted to do so, from enacting their local minimum wage law.


Irony, considering that its coming from so-called "conservatives".

[anunitu]

Remember that the "Machine" politics still are strong in some small town places,when in Albany,NY, Local people mentioned the "Machine" that still runs things..Albany's mayor was in office for well over 30 years,and just died while I was living there.

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This guy was mayor for 40 years.

Here he is(Wiki) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erastus_Corning_2nd)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Erastus_Corning_2nd_1964.png

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Erastus Corning 2nd (October 7, 1909 – May 28, 1983) was an American politician. He was Mayor of Albany, New York for more than 40 years, from 1942 to 1983, when Albany County was controlled by one of the last two classic urban political machines in the United States. Albany's longest-serving mayor, the Democrat died in office in 1983. His great-grandfather, Erastus Corning, was an industrialist who founded the New York Central Railroad and served as Albany's mayor from 1834 to 1837. His father, Edwin Corning, was Lieutenant Governor of New York from 1927 to 1928.

[Bartmanhomer]

My views is the law is totally unfair also it's nobody business what you do in bathroom. Why can the governament just butt out from people privacy? :mad:

[B. de Corbin]

The law is more about the state imposing its will over municipalities.


The same bill prevents the same town (that passed the trans protection ordinances), along with any other that wanted to do so, from enacting their local minimum wage law.


Irony, considering that its coming from so-called "conservatives".

Yeah - I saw the second section when I looked at the bill (South Carolina HB2, http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf), but didn't read it since nobody was talking about anything but the potty issue.

[Medusa]

It's pretty much keeping their municipalities from making non discrimination laws. This state's representatives that passed this bill need to be hit in the pocket book. That way their people who voted for them etc will get pissed and ixnay the next stupid idea.

[Stardust]

I live in North Carolina and this stupid law has turned the whole state up on it's head


The law is more about the state imposing its will over municipalities.


The same bill prevents the same town (that passed the trans protection ordinances), along with any other that wanted to do so, from enacting their local minimum wage law.


Irony, considering that its coming from so-called "conservatives".

Pretty much this. The bathroom stuff is just a distraction. Even if the bathroom thing gets repealed, the rest of the law will remain intact. Party of "small government", amirite?

And as much as I hate to say it, this is probably going to get Governor McCrory re-elected. Because of all this backlash he is now playing the "Woe is me I'm being oppressed by the big gay liberal agenda" card which is going to win over conservative voters

[Bartmanhomer]

This is why the whole world is so retarded these days. Like I said before it's nobody d*** business what they do in the bathroom and the state doesn't have no right to make these retarded laws so they could pay the d*** taxpayers money. :mad:

[Hawkfeathers]

I've seen transgendered (or at least very good cross dressers) in the ladies room before. Sometimes it seemed a little obvious because of their height/big feet/just a feeling.....I remember one such person in particular at Studio 54 in the very early 80's. We struck up a conversation and s/he was hilarious and sweet. So I really don't give a rat's butt what's under the dress, just go in the stall and do your business and get back out on the dance floor!

[anunitu]

I am trying to imagine you as a Disco Babe Hawk...groovy...
http://img.costumecraze.com/images/vendors/fashion/750811-Blue-Disco-Babe-Costume-large.jpg


https://youtu.be/A_sY2rjxq6M

[Hawkfeathers]

LMFAO! I actually did have shoes almost exactly like that. I was always more of a rocker than a disco-er but all that Saturday Night Fever stuff happened in the middle of my college years, so we kinda had it all.
AND - we all used to sometimes go in the men's rooms at the clubs because the ladies line was too long. Nobody cared.

[monsno_leedra]

LMFAO! I actually did have shoes almost exactly like that. I was always more of a rocker than a disco-er but all that Saturday Night Fever stuff happened in the middle of my college years, so we kinda had it all.
AND - we all used to sometimes go in the men's rooms at the clubs because the ladies line was too long. Nobody cared.

I'd dare to say you were all adults in those clubs and such. Most of the disgruntlement I hear about this law is because of the children and young adults that might be in those bathrooms. That, to me anyway, is the part that keeps being omitted here, it's not adults in a bathroom / lavatory setting it's mostly the presumption of children / young adults being in them. Though have to admit there are some that are simply hollering because of it being male's dressing as females in a females bathroom / locker room / etc.

[anunitu]

I was never into Disco,being a VERY hard rock type,metal really...Bang your head!!

[Hawkfeathers]

I'd dare to say you were all adults in those clubs and such. Most of the disgruntlement I hear about this law is because of the children and young adults that might be in those bathrooms. That, to me anyway, is the part that keeps being omitted here, it's not adults in a bathroom / lavatory setting it's mostly the presumption of children / young adults being in them. Though have to admit there are some that are simply hollering because of it being male's dressing as females in a females bathroom / locker room / etc.

The drinking age was 18 then, so most of us were at least 15. Are they worried about straight men dressing as women to fool young girls? I think the biggest problem in the schools is bullying and all they need is good old fashioned hall monitors. We were hardly ever unsupervised in the bathrooms. They were afraid we'd smoke something LOL

[anunitu]

I myself smoked herb across the street when in High school..it was inner city cool in the way back then....

[monsno_leedra]

The drinking age was 18 then, so most of us were at least 15. Are they worried about straight men dressing as women to fool young girls? I think the biggest problem in the schools is bullying and all they need is good old fashioned hall monitors. We were hardly ever unsupervised in the bathrooms. They were afraid we'd smoke something LOL

Honestly I haven't figured out all the issues they are suggesting. I know I heard one argument about bathrooms in something like a mall as an example, bathrooms at amusement parks, parks in general, etc. Haven't really heard to many discussions about schools though i'm sure they are there as well. There being discussions not people specifically.

Myself I am torn. There are times my 9 year old granddaughter wants to go to the bathroom by herself and we let her go but stand outside the door. But then we know she is alone in the bathroom / restroom. So the idea of giving them a little freedom seem's endangered by having to have someone present with them, sort of standing outside the actual stall. To be honest I tend to look at this whole situation the same i'd look at a drunk driver. I might pass 9 of them on a given night and have no issue, but the 10th one might crash into me and kill me. So I prefer that even the single chance of being killed be ruled out by preventing it as a whole vice saying well the other 9 times nothing happened. I see the transgender thing in the same light, 9 times it might be a person who is simply in the wrong body, but that 10th person has the potential to truly harm and mess someone up. Doesn't mater if it's male on male, male on female, female on female or adult on child, it's not worth the chance or the potential enabling of it to occur. Yet most of the hype is about male in drag as it were while ignoring the other side of that coin I think when it comes to molesters, flashers, abusers, etc. they can be male or female.

I realize the times are changing but really do not think the odds are changing as much as people want to make believe.

[ThePaganMafia]

Ironically, more GOP politicians have been arrested for bathroom shenanigans than Trans people.

http://deadstate.org/more-gop-politicians-have-been-arrested-for-sexual-misconduct-in-bathrooms-than-trans-people/

I don't want Republicans to be in the same bathroom with my kids.

[thalassa]

That, to me anyway, is the part that keeps being omitted here, it's not adults in a bathroom / lavatory setting it's mostly the presumption of children / young adults being in them.


My husband has been taking our daughter and I've been taking our son into the bathroom with us when the other parent wasn't there since they were born until just a few years ago for my daughter and last year for my son. Stalls are a thing. Please, what the heck are they realistically going to see because a woman that was born a man is washing her hands in the same sink that my kids are?

Even lots of locker rooms have changing stalls now, and if they don't, they should--some people have issues with their body image or with the public. And smart establishments that have kids patrons and visitors also have "family" changing rooms and bathrooms.





Here's the thing (and I absolutely do not think you are doing this Monsno, just that I've now seen some variation of it at least a dozen times now from my mouth breathing relatives)--anyone that thinks this through knows that this:

"boys will pretend they are girls to get in their locker room and take advantage of them" (paraphrased from the idiotic social media posts that I have personally encountered)

...is complete and utter BS.

No boy (or girl) is going to voluntarily go through the traumatizingly shitty experience of identifying as transexual* to get a lookey-loo at some tatas (or wang) outside of a terrible 80s movie, and if a boy (or girl) were going to use a restroom as a place to pick out a target for rape, it would be because they were a budding sexual predator, not because they were trans, and they'd do it regardless of some law significantly less punitive.

I'd hazard to guess that a boy child is statistically speaking more likely at risk in a mens bathroom (or a confessional, a classroom, etc) from a pedophile than they are from a genetic female using the mens room (or vice versa).


*ETA this should have said transgendered...I was, unfortunately, multitasking while writing this thread and didn't even notice that my Tim Curry conversation with the hubby slipped in to my typing til I reread...

[anunitu]

Interestingly I remember being in Taiwan Kaohsiung city,and a bathroom near the docks. Went in and an old lady was taking a dump over what is known as a benjo ditch in the Philippines.

Basically a trench with water running in it. And no gender thing,come as you are..unisex.

[monsno_leedra]

My husband has been taking our daughter and I've been taking our son into the bathroom with us when the other parent wasn't there since they were born until just a few years ago for my daughter and last year for my son. Stalls are a thing. Please, what the heck are they realistically going to see because a woman that was born a man is washing her hands in the same sink that my kids are?

We did the same with the wife taking the boys into the women's bathroom though have to admit I can't think of a time I took our granddaughter into the men's room. But then again there is hardly any time we're out that it's not both of us with them.

Just a guess but some of what I keep hearing and have seen in many school type settings is the fact a lot of bathrooms do not have stall doors. Some are pressing just to have stall walls. Don't know how many fair grounds, park grounds, etc that do not have doors on the stalls. But then again that tends to be in more rural areas than the cities or even urban areas. Still find the trough urinals in some areas, but again that seems more rural than city or urban in usage.


Even lots of locker rooms have changing stalls now, and if they don't, they should--some people have issues with their body image or with the public. And smart establishments that have kids patrons and visitors also have "family" changing rooms and bathrooms.

They should but again I think your also dealing with the idea of rural / country and urban / city in how things are done. Been years since I've been to some areas of the South but still recall open changing areas at public pools, lakes and large ponds with swimming areas. It's almost a culture of its own in how things were done and that sense of expectations of privacy or lack there of. Sort of like the old stories where you peeked into the girls locker room and the idea of privacy was nearly non-existent as you had lockers back to back and benches between them.

It seems, to me anyway, that a lot of the South in that regard still has that eroticism / tabooism going on regarding changing areas. That aspect is more the argument than actual bathroom facilities for washing or using a toilet. Yet it also touches upon that "Princess' concept though I couldn't explain it to save my life as it seem's to change from person to person and area to area when it comes to their daughters / grand-daughter's / wives.


Here's the thing (and I absolutely do not think you are doing this Monsno, just that I've now seen some variation of it at least a dozen times now from my mouth breathing relatives)--anyone that thinks this through knows that this:

"boys will pretend they are girls to get in their locker room and take advantage of them" (paraphrased from the idiotic social media posts that I have personally encountered)

...is complete and utter BS.

Thank you. Like you i've heard so many aspects and the presumption of what will happen.


No boy (or girl) is going to voluntarily go through the traumatizingly shitty experience of identifying as transexual to get a lookey-loo at some tatas (or wang) outside of a terrible 80s movie, and if a boy (or girl) were going to use a restroom as a place to pick out a target for rape, it would be because they were a budding sexual predator, not because they were trans, and they'd do it regardless of some law significantly less punitive.

I think the idea of them doing it to be transexual is the mistake though. It's not that they would do it to experience being transgender'd but to exploit it. I do agree though it's more likely to be a budding sexual predator or seasoned one that will exploit it.


I'd hazard to guess that a boy child is statistically speaking more likely at risk in a mens bathroom (or a confessional, a classroom, etc) from a pedophile than they are from a genetic female using the mens room (or vice versa).

Oh I don't disagree at all. But I think part of that goes back to the notion of males being the main predator which ignores the fact there are women predators as well. From a sexual predator aspect it's just as likely as man would act the role to get a young girl as a woman acting the role to get a boy. Consider just how many times we see articles of the 20 something male / female trying to pass themselves off as teenagers. They seek to have sexual experiences with them but also re-experience those teenage years. Which it seems that is one aspect that it appears we see more women involved in than men.

In many ways though it goes back to the idea that is you give them an opportunity and means then there will be those who will exploit it. Doesn't matter if they are male or female if it gives them access to children or young adults in the early to mid teen range.

[B. de Corbin]

http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/listen/?date=2016/04/02

Start about 4:00 in.

[anunitu]

ahhh,Garrison Keillor...a friend introduced me to him and A Prairie home companion...very nice voice and soothing as well.

[Medusa]

Um. Oopsie. I somehow have administrative authority. i moved this thread just to see if I could. And I can. I don't know what to do now.

*waves at admins.

Um. Something is wrong.

*at the top of the thread I get this:
Thread Tools
Administrative
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:=I:

[B. de Corbin]

On the up side...

At the staff meeting yesterday, the "out" lesbian teacher (no, she doesn't teach gym) gave a long, impassioned plea for treating LGBTQ students with courtesy and respect, regardless of one's personal beliefs.

It was fully sactioned by the school, and I really hope that people in teaching (who need to) wise up a bit. It's not our job hurt or humiliate. It IS our job to make sure ALL students feel comfortable and respected in our classrooms.

[thalassa]

And, at least for schools, the courts have spoken (if you are in the 4th circuit*):

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/152056.P.pdf

*4th circuit includes Maryland, Virginia and W Virginia, and both N and S Carolina

[B. de Corbin]

And, at least for schools, the courts have spoken (if you are in the 4th circuit*):

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/152056.P.pdf

*4th circuit includes Maryland, Virginia and W Virginia, and both N and S Carolina

I'd be interested to see the boys start showing up in dresses in order to get a peak at girls going potty...

...and are people really so out of control that the mere glimpse of a female body causes them to go on a rape spree? There are some serious issues here, and it's not the trans people demonstrating a brain problem...

(Who comes up with this kind of stuff? Do they know they're loony?)

[Medusa]

can someone moves this back to debates?
i have broken my pf authority. :=I:

[Prickly Pear]

Ironically, more GOP politicians have been arrested for bathroom shenanigans than Trans people.

http://deadstate.org/more-gop-politicians-have-been-arrested-for-sexual-misconduct-in-bathrooms-than-trans-people/

I don't want Republicans to be in the same bathroom with my kids.

Seriously, the people hollering most about this stuff are the ones who think of it in the first place. This is why the rest of us are baffled.

This reminds me of the ERA days, where there was a constant threat of "If you want to be treated as equals, then someone's gonna rape you in the bathroom."


Also, under current public bathroom practices, rapists and murderers have been able to ambush people. They don't need to disguise themselves in the clothes of the opposite gender, they just go in when no one is looking. This is why family style bathrooms are becoming more popular (as well as the mom/son, dad/daughter) situations.

Also, having survived unisex bathrooms in my college dorms, I can tell you that it works fine with stalls. Even showers. Some things are really no fun in public no matter who is around, and discomfort over the rest fades pretty quickly. Mostly it was just women upset about the guy Who Would Not Aim. Although he did pretty much end up with his own personal stall by default, and the women could rule him out as a dating prospect.

Anyway, use the bathroom that makes you feel comfortable and don't be a creeper. My sage advice:)

[anunitu]

can someone moves this back to debates?
i have broken my pf authority. :=I:


Wags the fickle finger of fate in Duce's direction...while saying tisk,tisk,tisk!

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I sorry...
https://healthnutornot.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/funny-guilty-dog-hiding-did-something-bad-pics.jpg

[habbalah]

If someone is going to try and hurt kids, they will do it regardless of this law. Just a bunch of conservatives clutching at their pearls screaming "think of the children!" as an excuse to not own up to being a bigot.

[anunitu]

This fear has been embedded in social interaction and reinforced by religious bodies for a VERY long time. Kind of ironic that the religion covered the sins of their own clergy for such a long time. Children,safe in the bathroom,but not so much in Church(Is my anger showing?)

[habbalah]

The sad and sobering fact is that children are more likely, by a staggering percentage, to be assaulted by a family member than a stranger.

[DavidMcCann]

If we have stalls with doors (unlike the Finns) and no urinals, do we even need separate rooms? I'm also interested in how these laws are going to be enforced. Will restaurants and shops be expected to have bouncers to check everyones birth certificate at the door?

In London the old public conveniences have closed and we have these kiosks in the street: one WC and a door that opens automatically after 15 minutes in case you've died in there.