What seems a war on pain killers,and the concern about O.D.'s

[anunitu]

Ok,I put this in debates for a reason,because we most likely will have differing points of view.

Story here kind of (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/4/15/1375189/-The-War-On-Doctors-How-The-DEA-is-Scaring-Doctors-from-Prescribing-Pain-Medications)(add yours depending on your view)

I myself am pro pain killers for those who would not even be able to function without them.
My friend that recently died was an example of this. If he did not take pain killers on a regular schedule,he would not even have been able to get out of bed.
He did succumb to Cancer in the end,but he had major spine surgery over the years. Bone degeneration was his major issue.

It seems after Princes death,and it seems even before there has been a push to restrict pain medications because of abuse. This however will make it much harder for those who pain medication is very necessary just to function on a day to day manner.

Myself,I only use pain meds seldom when I have extreme pain. Because some people can not adhere to controlling their intake(abusing the PK's) others will suffer because of their lack of control.

Your opinion/views can let us know how you feel.
You know Mask will have to intervene if you can not follow the rules of debate laid out in the site rules,keep that in mind when replying.

Begin.

[Tylluan Penry]

Over in the UK, the number of painkillers we can buy in a packet (i.e. not prescribed) is very restricted. Small packets have, apparently been found to reduce the risks of deliberate overdose.

The thing is, there are many ways to abuse medication. But also the medical profession tend to underrate what severe, chronic pain is like to live with. Telling me to take a couple of paracetamol is going to invite a punch in the mouth. (that said, there are times where certain types of extra pain can be helped a bit by additional paracetamol, but it's only very occasional.

I found that once my pain meds were properly sorted, I felt much better and more able to function. I cannot begin to explain what it was like without them.

Painkillers are a misnomer anyway. They do not kill severe pain (at least, not without knocking us out or turning us into complete bloody zombies.) I don't expect them to do this (though some people do>) All I want is to get the edge off the pain for a few hours.

I think better education for patients and doctors would help a lot. Politicians ought to stay out of it IMHO.

[Ula]

We have several doctors in WV who do nothing but give out pain meds scripts. One dr has all 1000 of his rural practice patients on Oxy. It's an issue and it starts with scripts and dr.

[anunitu]

That is a problem,and that makes it much harder for people who truly do need the PK for medical reasons.

[Hawkfeathers]

I don't know how a Dr. could predict who will become an addict and who won't. Some Dr.'s (like mine) just tell you to take handfuls of Tylenol, which is just as bad as the Dr.'s who hand out narcotics like candy. When I was in high school, there was one Dr. around who was famous for giving out diet pills, known as black beauties at the time. Tranquilizers were also very common - people were taking Librium like aspirin. It was so commonplace that even in the premiere episode of The Brady Bunch, Carol very casually told Mike to take a tranquilizer. So now we've gone the other way, as a society.

[anunitu]

Black beauties were around even when I was in High School...Bennies,Ludes, reds and blues..and of course speed in powder form to snort or for some shoot. I did speed in coffee of all things(bitter taste) All these so called street drugs were "Legal" when prescribed.

I remember this song so very much.
Mother's little helper

https://youtu.be/13olfeD026g

Hay,I could have gone with the "Pusher"

[Ula]

That is a problem,and that makes it much harder for people who truly do need the PK for medical reasons.

Exactly. We are trying to set up a database so people who are script seeking will pop up at the pharmacy but it's hard to get these things in place. We also set up drug courts to keep addicts out of jail and in rehab and day programs.

[Prickly Pear]

This is a problem. There have always been doctors who are glorified pushers. The problem is that there are plenty of people in real pain who need help. It is the difference between working and not working. It is the difference between bearable and unbearable. Politicians know diddly squat about medical issues, and their history of addressing addiction, at least in the US, has been disastrous. I am concerned about, say, what if I or someone I love ends up with a long, painful cancer.

I recently took a family member into a very reputable back clinic. While I was in the waiting area, I heard two different patients independently threaten suicide due to the chronic pain. Maybe they had addiction problems, but from talking to them, I don't think so. I've talked to plenty of addicts. I think they were just looking at a lifetime of pain. And if there is no access to the prescription, so many try to buy it illegally. And when that is prohibitively expensive, the dealer points out how cheap and available heroin is. Of course people build up a dependency when they rely on pain medication. Often that means treating the pain and then helping them get off of the medication. Sometimes, though, I think that the dependency is the price for a life without constant horrible pain.

[Thorbjorn]

That is a problem,and that makes it much harder for people who truly do need the PK for medical reasons.

This is what has happened in NJ. I take a cocktail (not stacked, but staggered and alternated) of percocet, which is oxycdone w/ acetaminophen (the acetaminophen gives the oxycodone, or hydrocone if Vicoden or Norco) a kick in the butt to work better); Soma (carisoprodol, a muscle relaxant); Oxycontin ER (extended release/long acting oxycodone, yeah right - it's crap); Zanaflex (tizanadine, a muscle relaxant).

It sounds like I'm a junkie and a druggie, but I take an oxycodone (Oxycontin is a brand name) and a muscle relaxant maybe twice a day if that, with a couple of hours between the p.k. and m.r. and definitely 8-10 hours between each. The reason for alternating is because they stop working after a while, I don't want to get used to any one med. Why am I a walking pharmacy? Lumbar fusion which is still painful, with muscle spasms that make it hard to get in and out of bed, or off the toilet (I know, tmi). They are so bad I freeze until it relaxes.

OK, the point... doctors have written prescriptions for p.k. like they were giving out M&Ms. So the state of NJ, and/or FDA and/or DEA have cracked down. If you need a refill on an opiate p.k. you must have a written prescription. The doctors cannot even fax or electronically prescribe to the pharmacy. And... ! the pharmacy can only hold the paper prescription for 1 day. If you have 3 or 4 days before it can be refilled, for example, the pharmacy can't put it on hold. Opioids like Ultram/Ultracet/tramadol and similar, are opiate-like drugs and not as tightly controlled.

So when I need a refill I have to call my surgeon's office 3 days in advance, then go pick up the written prescription before work at 8 am, then get to work late. This is what it's come to because people were getting prescriptions for hangnails, and the doctors were writing them. Some made it bad for all.

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...I heard two different patients independently threaten suicide due to the chronic pain. Maybe they had addiction problems, but from talking to them, I don't think so. I've talked to plenty of addicts. I think they were just looking at a lifetime of pain. ...

Yep, you just want the pain to go away, and feel "normal". I won't lie and say that the mild euphoria you get from percocet isn't pleasant. I've never done anything stupid, because the euphoria I get is not that intense. It's just "ah, this feels better", but if I could live without taking anything I would. I can understand how people can become hooked, especially on higher doses. Mine is 10 mg, which is a baby dose.

Btw, if there's too much personal information about the subject, staff please feel free to edit or delete. I will understand.

[anunitu]

This pretty much describes my friend that died recently(died due to complications from throat surgery) His whole day was allowed by PK,and other meds..No meds,no movement period. And we live here in NJ...He had to do the doc and pharmacist run every month to get his meds,and I know it was hard because his feet would swell real bad after.

[B. de Corbin]

Sounds like it would just be easier to order a sack of W-18...

Street drug W-18 is highly lethal, and still legal (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/street-drug-w-18-is-highly-lethal-and-still-legal-1.3546094)


W-18 is 100 times more potent than fentanyl.

[anunitu]

How in hell is this stuff still legal???

[B. de Corbin]

How in hell is this stuff still legal???

Two words:

China

Analogues

Chinese companies produce analogues of illegal chemicals, which are not themselves illegal - but are also untested on human beings - and sell them to drug dealers (who are not the most respectable of physicians), who then sell them to customers (who are not the wisest of consumers).

[anunitu]

I am just pondering humans waiting for Jesus to come save us from our stupid selves(remember I used to do drugs big time) and if you never learn about your drugs,you do not get away,you die.

[B. de Corbin]

I am just pondering humans waiting for Jesus to come save us from our stupid selves(remember I used to do drugs big time) and if you never learn about your drugs,you do not get away,you die.

I don't know if you remember, but back in the 70s or 80s there was a heroin analogue called "China White" - there were some cases of complete paralysis that resulted (as well as overdoses).

[anunitu]

Gonna mention one thing,from my personal interactions with heavy drug users. I really think what drove them to drugs was religion,and their fear of that kept them coming back to drugs. a lot of religious fire and brimstone so hard at kids,they get afraid of everything...so drugs calms that fear down a little..Myself not being really religious only did drugs cause they were fun..and when they stopped being fun,I just quit. I saw even people that went through 6 months of rehab..go straight back after they finished the rehab.
One guy even talked about shooting speed just before graduation from the program..he was dead less than 2 months later. While there was the saying "Speed kills",the real saying should be "Stupid kills"

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Interesting B. De. and even of more interest it seems "China White" is back,or they just like the name.
See here in NC. (http://www.wcti12.com/news/china-white-heroin-makes-its-way-to-nc/24587724)

This is what they are calling "China White"

"China White" is a new drug, which consists of heroin mixed with Fentanyl. Fentanyl is a strong prescription narcotic. Experts say "China White" can be 5 times more potent than heroin alone.

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Not implying that religion drives a lot to drugs,BUT listening to them doing their "Kinda absolution's in groups" religion came up a LOT with recovering addicts for some reason.
I only heard them from being near,not being in recovery,just in for depression. I also kind of became a "Confessor" for many because I did not go all "your a bad person" on them.
What I usually told them was "NEVER forget how bad it was before getting straight" if you forget,you going to go back..that is a fact jack.

[Hawkfeathers]

I don't know if you remember, but back in the 70s or 80s there was a heroin analogue called "China White" - there were some cases of complete paralysis that resulted (as well as overdoses).

I remember China White, and also the big Paraquat marijuana scare.

[anunitu]

I have a vague memory of that Hawk..but most of the 70's is kinda foggy to be honest.:cool:

[Hawkfeathers]

I have a vague memory of that Hawk..but most of the 70's is kinda foggy to be honest.:cool:

Paraquot was in the 80's. My ex was a smoker and I remember him talking about it. Meth used to be called "crank", & people still said if you tried it once, you were hooked forever.

More stuff was prescribed (or at least it seems so), there was just as much on the streets, yet it seems there are more problems with addictions today. Or maybe people just knew when Monday morning was coming and it was time to stop partying until the next weekend. I dunno!

[Thorbjorn]

but most of the 70's is kinda foggy to be honest.:cool:

If you can remember the 60s or 70s, you weren't really there. :XD laugh:

[Tylluan Penry]

Where I live you can't even buy more than two small packs of laxatives at a time...

No sh*t. (Sorry, couldn't resist that!) ;)