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Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

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    Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

    I was listening to some Ted talks while cleaning at work earlier and stumbled upon one that I found really interesting. It is by a Japanese Buddhist monk called Daiko Matsuyama and he explains his thoughts on why the Japanese are so tolerant of other religions compared to the rest of the world. Not only a fascinating talk, but also food for thought I think. How often have we seen people slated on forums and so on for calling themselves Christian Wiccans for example, and the out-pour of anger that follows as people insist that Christianity is by its nature exclusive of other religions. Personally I don't believe this.. I think Christians are by their nature exclusive of other religions. In fact, I think human beings are by their nature quick to categorise one another and establish who is 'part of the club', and who isn't worthy of the title/label. We see this a lot in paganism too.

    I particularly liked his food analogy. Especially as a member of the wider pagan community, I see people struggle to reconcile their desire to follow a path from a different culture or even country, with the need to still practice within and observe their own natural and cultural climate. I also hear that dreaded 'cultural (miss)appropriation' slogan flung about. I think Matsuyama illustrates eloquently why this idea of offending a culture by absorbing it into your own is so alien to the Japanese.

    It was too good not to share with any one here that might be interested.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if the subtitles appear when I share videos or if the viewer has to enable them themselves, but they're in the settings if not.

    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

    #2
    Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

    Wait. I just saw Silence about the Christians in Japan during the 1400s. And they were pretty intolerant of their own people. I mean torturing them and stuff. Am I on crazy pills?

    (and yes I realize it's a movie, but after seeing in I went and did some on-line reading of the real situation. No bueno.)

    so yeah, people in glass houses and stuff.
    Satan is my spirit animal

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

      Oh come on. Who WASN'T maiming each other in the 1400s? We've been over this.. human beings are innately wicked. I keep saying this.. like all the time. But we are also capable of learning to go against our primal instincts and instead do good in the world. Most people at the very least manage to get through life without killing another human.

      If there are people like Matsuyama who dream of a more tolerant world, then I fully support that dream. I feel we need that more than ever. The whole point is surely to learn from the past and avoid making the same mistakes.
      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

        Originally posted by Jembru View Post
        Oh come on. Who WASN'T maiming each other in the 1400s? We've been over this.. human beings are innately wicked. I keep saying this.. like all the time. But we are also capable of learning to go against our primal instincts and instead do good in the world. Most people at the very least manage to get through life without killing another human.

        If there are people like Matsuyama who dream of a more tolerant world, then I fully support that dream. I feel we need that more than ever. The whole point is surely to learn from the past and avoid making the same mistakes.
        yeah, but I just watched a youtube video of two monks going at it fisticuffs style. So I'm sorta side eyed and skeptical...about everything.

        Well except for the handy man monk who comes in to our tool store on a regular basis. I live a city over from a prominent monk(ish) community. He seems to be the resident hammer dude. Different guys keep driving him over and he comes in with his robe and his little tool bag. It's kinda cute.
        Satan is my spirit animal

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

          Professing a religion does not make one a better person.

          Sometimes following one does, but even that isn't a fer-shur.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

            Truth be told,as I told my Daughter,and this is my very own quote(I made it up) "Human beings are a mine field"
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
              yeah, but I just watched a youtube video of two monks going at it fisticuffs style. So I'm sorta side eyed and skeptical...about everything.

              Well except for the handy man monk who comes in to our tool store on a regular basis. I live a city over from a prominent monk(ish) community. He seems to be the resident hammer dude. Different guys keep driving him over and he comes in with his robe and his little tool bag. It's kinda cute.
              Where do you think martial arts originated? Monks fighting one another is pretty standard I thought.

              I'm wondering if anyone posting here actually saw the video. The very point he is making is that the Japanese have a more relaxed attitude towards their own religious practice. He even points out that to Indian Buddhists the Japanese appear inauthentic. Then he argues the point that you should tweak your practice to suit your climate and culture.

              This post was meant to be about eclecticism and how refreshing his views were when all you hear is 'you're not an authentic such-and-such unless you such-and-such'. It was meant as food for thought for those who mix and match their practices and maybe even those who think they have the authority to tell others what they can and can't call themselves.

              He didn't say you need religion either. He said the path doesn't actually matter. It's the spirituality that counts.

              Gonna watch with the subtitles.. Maybe it's just badly translated.. or maybe I misunderstood something. In either case I'm confused by the direction of this conversation (although if we want to discuss what is wrong with modern Japanese society, or mankind in general we can totally go there... I've got plenty of gripes.. just maybe not here because it's not related to the topic).
              夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                I think people miss the relationship the Japanese have between culture, ancestor veneration and spirituality as a whole. His speech touches upon it briefly when he compares the Indian and Japanese forms of Buddhists practices and how the two cultures have incorporated them and made them their own. I personally think people outside of Japan also tend to miss the fact many times the Japanese have multiple steps in their spirituality in that many start out as Shinto practitioners then also either change over to or include Buddhist facets in their spirituality. So unlike many western or middle eastern peoples who tend to stay with one religious influence their whole lives the Japanese have multiple to begin with.

                Granted I lived in Northern Japan for 6.5 years so perhaps have a different perspective regarding the Japanese culture. But saw families that went to both the Shinto shrines and Buddhist Temples as parts of their spiritual lives and used each depending upon need and situation.

                But regarding eclectic views and such and incorporating it the Japanese are a model civilization regarding taking from other peoples and molding it and making something their own by changing it to fit their need. But the surface appearance often masks a very dark strata even with regard to religion and spirituality. Blood inpurity is still a big issue socially and found in the religious shrines and temples for instance.
                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                  Sorry for taking it down a dark turn.

                  I don't mean fighting. I mean fighting.



                  Anyways, they got expelled. I'm a nihilist. I don't trust anyone and will take everyone (even baby jesus) down the dark alley. My apologies.

                  Continue the Japan love train. :^^:
                  Satan is my spirit animal

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                    As I said,"Mine field" Why perhaps I tend to NOT have to much in the way of random friends.(it gets old trying to disarm people)
                    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                    sigpic

                    my new page here,let me know what you think.


                    nothing but the shadow of what was

                    witchvox
                    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                      I think people miss the relationship the Japanese have between culture, ancestor veneration and spirituality as a whole. His speech touches upon it briefly when he compares the Indian and Japanese forms of Buddhists practices and how the two cultures have incorporated them and made them their own. I personally think people outside of Japan also tend to miss the fact many times the Japanese have multiple steps in their spirituality in that many start out as Shinto practitioners then also either change over to or include Buddhist facets in their spirituality. So unlike many western or middle eastern peoples who tend to stay with one religious influence their whole lives the Japanese have multiple to begin with.

                      Granted I lived in Northern Japan for 6.5 years so perhaps have a different perspective regarding the Japanese culture. But saw families that went to both the Shinto shrines and Buddhist Temples as parts of their spiritual lives and used each depending upon need and situation.

                      But regarding eclectic views and such and incorporating it the Japanese are a model civilization regarding taking from other peoples and molding it and making something their own by changing it to fit their need. But the surface appearance often masks a very dark strata even with regard to religion and spirituality. Blood inpurity is still a big issue socially and found in the religious shrines and temples for instance.
                      Did you ever discuss religion in Japan? I wish I'd been able to speak Japanese when I lived there. I've talked about religion with Japanese people living or studying in England but they don't necessarily reflect the general population in that they all have a particular interest in Western culture and communicating with English speakers. What I've found though, is that they're pretty vague when the topic of religion comes up and will say they don't have a religion. Then when I say that I'm pagan and start explaining what it is, they're fascinated and start to open up about their own practices. I don't know if this is just how the Japanese are, or if they're shy in case they're talking to a devout Christian.

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                      Sorry for taking it down a dark turn.

                      I don't mean fighting. I mean fighting.



                      Anyways, they got expelled. I'm a nihilist. I don't trust anyone and will take everyone (even baby jesus) down the dark alley. My apologies.

                      Continue the Japan love train. :^^:
                      No need to apologise, it's cool, but I want to make one thing very clear. I do NOT love Japan. I love the language. I love my Japanese friends, but Japan is not a place I'd ever call my home again. It has too many dark sides. Ugly dark sides. Like the routine domestic abuse against women that the police repeatedly put down as 'lovers tiffs'... then scratch their heads at the high number of women who are murdered by their partners.. the lack of response to incidences of stalking, the gender pay gap, then there is the fact that paedophilia is so normalised in Japan that there isn't even a word for it in Japanese. Not in common use anyway. They just say 'Lolita Complex' (rorikon), which quite frankly plays it down as being just a fetish. One of the reasons I can't get into anime is because I struggle to see past the way it continuously feeds into this. Even My Neighbour Totoro that everyone insists is great keeps flashing the youngest girl's knickers at you. Then there is pressure to conform and not speak your mind..gods forbid you might have a different opinion to the rest of the people you're sitting with.. the whaling... the over-packaging.. karoushi.. oh and the humidity. I'm glad to have experienced Japan, and it has its good points too (the monkeys, deer and cherry blossom!), but I definitely don't love the place.

                      Now look what you did. You made me derail my own thread! ^^
                      Last edited by Jembru; 09 Feb 2017, 20:49.
                      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                        Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                        Did you ever discuss religion in Japan? I wish I'd been able to speak Japanese when I lived there. I've talked about religion with Japanese people living or studying in England but they don't necessarily reflect the general population in that they all have a particular interest in Western culture and communicating with English speakers. What I've found though, is that they're pretty vague when the topic of religion comes up and will say they don't have a religion. Then when I say that I'm pagan and start explaining what it is, they're fascinated and start to open up about their own practices. I don't know if this is just how the Japanese are, or if they're shy in case they're talking to a devout Christian.
                        I don't know much about Japan, but here's an interesting article that seems to be relevant to what you are saying: Religion without belief: Most Japanese reject religious belief while embracing multiple forms of ritual practice. Are they religious or secular?

                        I have absolutely no idea if the author is correct or not about Japan (I bow to the experiences of others ), but the article is interesting, especially when taken in regard to religious tolerance.
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                          A very decent and thought provoking talk! This man seems to be very kind and caring from what I've seen of him in the video. It also helped me understand his views on how Japanese religiosity differs from other places.

                          I just have a different opinion on one specific part. I don't believe real tolerance is saying, we all believe in the same things so let's be nice to each other. Real tolerance is saying, we believe in different things, and even though we have opposing beliefs we still want to live with each other and be nice to each other.

                          I do understand that for some people religion isn't about what is real and what isn't, about what's true and what's false, it's more to do with what do I want/desire and sometimes even what mood I'm in right now. It's not for me though, that doesn't mean I'm intolerant.

                          I don't believe that earth is only 6,000 years old, this doesn't mean I'm intolerant to those who do believe that. I don't have to accept that in order to be nice to them. Make sense?
                          Last edited by Dumuzi; 10 Feb 2017, 06:06.
                          [4:82]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                            I really have no time to concern myself with others beliefs. They are NOT mine to judge or compare. I myself have no need to concern myself because my existence and perception is what allows me to pass through life without anger or envy of others. It is enough that I live and breath among so many different aspects of the human herd,and not feel the need to slaughter my own brothers and sisters.(somewhat inhuman,but there you go,I seem to be out of step from other humans)
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                            sigpic

                            my new page here,let me know what you think.


                            nothing but the shadow of what was

                            witchvox
                            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Religious Tolerance: The Japanese Eclectic Approach to Spirituality

                              Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                              Did you ever discuss religion in Japan? I wish I'd been able to speak Japanese when I lived there. I've talked about religion with Japanese people living or studying in England but they don't necessarily reflect the general population in that they all have a particular interest in Western culture and communicating with English speakers. What I've found though, is that they're pretty vague when the topic of religion comes up and will say they don't have a religion. Then when I say that I'm pagan and start explaining what it is, they're fascinated and start to open up about their own practices. I don't know if this is just how the Japanese are, or if they're shy in case they're talking to a devout Christian. ..
                              Honestly not that I can think of as an individual topic. It always seemed to be in relationship to other things, especially holidays or honoring days for ancestors. In many ways you couldn't separate it from everyday life like you can for many western religious events like Christianity and Sunday church for instance. The Buddhist aspects where more defined ritual wise I recall more so than what you saw with the Shinto shrines and things dealing with that system though. You'd be driving about the country side and a set of Tori gates would appear out of no where and either be a family shrine going off into the woods or larger shrines with more elaborate set ups and colors.

                              Can't say it regarding the major cities but a lot of the rural areas the people are somewhat "shy" towards non-Japanese people. Yet shy is not the correct word either though that is how it appears as its also ultra polite for the older generation but the younger generation is almost without boundary in many ways in the liberties they are given till they reach a certain age, especially the boys. But that was also around a fairly large city and a military base but again the further out you got the more it changed and the more reclusive or detached the people came towards visitors to the area, even Japanese visitors. Which also crossed over into how the religious and spiritual practices were at the shrines and temples as the southern or city dwellers different than the country folk
                              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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