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    What do you think about cults?

    Okay, so I have been watching People Investigates Cults lately and I have been kind of shocked by what I see on the programs. People want to find religion that they can take a part of and they feel love and strength with the person that leads it. However, what I see are people being blind even when there is evidence that the leader is a fake and is terrorizing them. Like the case of Yahweh Ben Yahweh, he proclaimed himself God. How the hell are you going to stay when a guy calls himself a god? These people have charisma, true, but use your brains people. And I am not trying to badmouth anyone who has been in a cult, because I don't know what it has been like. I'm sure at one point it has been terrifying for certain people. However, there has to be a point in people's minds where they realize this guy or woman is a fake or fraud. People aren't stupid, they just can be taken in the moment I think. It just worries me that people can be taken. What do you think?
    Anubisa

    Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.


    #2
    Re: What do you think about cults?

    We'll I've never been to a cult before that cults do exist. Cults are considered a religion especially in most fundamental religions. As you see all religions have some sort of cults. For example the LDS have their polygamous cults. Some people have terrible experience being in a cult and some people are happy being in a cult. What I'm really trying to say is it all depends on the individual.

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      #3
      Re: What do you think about cults?

      These guys have a passable standard for dividing cult from religion. My general feeling is that if the organization actually manages to meet all five criteria that they use then said organization's existence rights should be revoked. It also explains in the loosest possible sense how recruitment works. Pretty much more cause for existence revocation.
      Last edited by MaskedOne; 28 Jun 2018, 09:04.
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        #4
        Re: What do you think about cults?

        Cults thrive on fairly predictable human behavior. Some people are extremely talented at manipulating others. In the same way that no one intends to enter an abusive relationship, no one intends to get swept into a cult. Some people are raised in cults, and that makes it difficult to compare to healthier situations, but others can be pulled in much easier than you think. Everything starts out rosy. There is a sense of purpose and community. Slowly there is isolation and coercion. Activities and policies that appear to have been built to expand spiritual experience break down personal boundaries and sense of self. There is a tremendous requirement of time and usually money, making it difficult to interact with outsiders, or pay your own way outside. Plus you lose everything that you have invested if you leave. The people in the cult are the closest relationships you have. If you leave, you lose those. Some people stay because they are afraid of losing these things, or they are afraid for their physical safety. Some people are probably in denial, the way family members often deny abuse within a family.

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          #5
          Re: What do you think about cults?

          Originally posted by Prickly Pear View Post
          Cults thrive on fairly predictable human behavior. Some people are extremely talented at manipulating others. In the same way that no one intends to enter an abusive relationship, no one intends to get swept into a cult. Some people are raised in cults, and that makes it difficult to compare to healthier situations, but others can be pulled in much easier than you think. Everything starts out rosy. There is a sense of purpose and community. Slowly there is isolation and coercion. Activities and policies that appear to have been built to expand spiritual experience break down personal boundaries and sense of self. There is a tremendous requirement of time and usually money, making it difficult to interact with outsiders, or pay your own way outside. Plus you lose everything that you have invested if you leave. The people in the cult are the closest relationships you have. If you leave, you lose those. Some people stay because they are afraid of losing these things, or they are afraid for their physical safety. Some people are probably in denial, the way family members often deny abuse within a family.
          I think it's called the Stockholm Syndrome.

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            #6
            Re: What do you think about cults?

            Not so grass hopper,that applies only to kidnapping I believe.

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            patty hurst fit that bill.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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              #7
              Re: What do you think about cults?

              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
              Not so grass hopper,that applies only to kidnapping I believe.

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              patty hurst fit that bill.
              Wouldn't recruiting by force consider kidnapping?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: What do you think about cults?

                Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                Wouldn't recruiting by force consider kidnapping?
                Problem though BMH is most cults don't recruit by force. Most recruit by guile and deception to get you in the door then alter the program slowly and alienate you once your in the program to keep you away from anyone who might cause you to resist the programming. It all appears very welcoming and helpful at the opening, filling a need the seeker usually has. Often for some form of acceptance.
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                  #9
                  Re: What do you think about cults?

                  Sometimes I just wonder why people get so swept up with cults. I agree that people can be taken when they are at their weakest point. They think that this person is doing well, but when a leader is spouting none sense or is threatening your life, there has to be something inside of you that says that this is not true religion. At least that is my opinion.
                  Anubisa

                  Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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                    #10
                    Re: What do you think about cults?

                    Please remember that many religions were state religions,required if you did not follow completely you could end up being considered a heretic,and end up being burned at the stake. kind of fits both bills,kidnapping and force,and taught from birth as well. Religion CAN spawn evil with no one understanding that that is where evil is born.

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                    in something known as the heart of darkness.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Joseph Conrad's most read novella Heart of Darkness has double meaning in its title. One dictionary meaning is that the title refers to the interior of the Africa called Congo. Another hidden meaning is, the title stands for the darkness or the primitiveness that every person possesses in his or her mind and heart.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    One might watch Apocalypse Now based on "the heart of darkness"
                    Last edited by anunitu; 28 Jun 2018, 18:05.
                    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                    sigpic

                    my new page here,let me know what you think.


                    nothing but the shadow of what was

                    witchvox
                    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: What do you think about cults?

                      That makes me wonder are cults welcome in this forum? I know that all faiths and religions are accepted but I want to know if that includes cults as well.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: What do you think about cults?

                        Deadly shooting at Maryland newspaper,there is now people asking if TRumps attack on the press as evil may have played a part in this evil act.

                        Story here.

                        Religion has been in history one of the most actor of evil and also deep caring, I believe it reflects our dual natures. We are the source of good and evil in the world. Humans are demon and angel combined.

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                        consider these words:

                        In the book The Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad demonstrates that humans are Dark and hollow on the inside and that if left to their own devices the dark and hollow side will reveal itself and take over.
                        It can be said that a certain degree of darkness lies within every person, but this darkness will not surface unless given the correct environment. The darkness, however, can emerge and ultimately destroy the person if not checked by reason. If one's inner darkness does surface, the victim then is given the opportunity to reach a point in personal growth, and to gain a sense of self- knowledge from it.

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                        Good link on the subject.
                        Last edited by anunitu; 28 Jun 2018, 18:34.
                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: What do you think about cults?

                          Well, first of all, let's just remind ourselves that ALL religions are cults in the original meaning of the term...

                          To quote Cicero, religio, id est cultus deorum--religion is the cult of the gods. In the original sense, "cult" (really, cultus) is a word denoting contractual obligation between god/s and man--In an Abrahamic context, the covenant between Jews and YHWH is cultus.

                          From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
                          1610s, "worship, homage" (a sense now obsolete); 1670s, "a particular form or system of worship;" from French culte (17c.), from Latin cultus "care, labor; cultivation, culture; worship, reverence," originally "tended, cultivated," past participle of colere "to till" (see colony).The word was rare after 17c., but it was revived mid-19c. (sometimes in French form culte) with reference to ancient or primitive systems of religious belief and worship, especially the rites and ceremonies employed in such worship. Extended meaning "devoted attention to a particular person or thing" is from 1829.
                          Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree. [Hugh Rawson, "Wicked Words," 1993]
                          Cult is a term which, as we value exactness, we can ill do without, seeing how completely religion has lost its original signification. Fitzedward Hall, "Modern English," 1873]
                          Cults as we call them are not cultus deorum, so its a bit of a bummer that we use the commonly translated word to describe them. :/

                          Cult in our modern context is a religious or pseudo-religious social/political groups that adopt and engage in some form of indoctrination often led by a charismatic leader (who holds an ultimate truth that can only be received through him/her wisdom) that generally seeks to subjugate its members in a manner that elevates the charismatic leader and pretends to elevate the members into thinking they have some special relevance or knowledge (special-ness), and in doing so forces or fosters a complete break with the "other" or outside world and outgroup social ties (often part of the brainwashing process). They also generally practice some form of disfellowshipping, in which former members are ostracized and vilified for leaving, and former members generally have stories that relay a pattern of abuses of members (which can be mental/emotional, physical, financial, sexual, etc. in nature). These groups usually have an inner circle/core group of true believers and an outer group of supporters often trying to get into the in-group.

                          Isaac Bonewits has a decent list for discerning a cult: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

                          Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton listed these three characteristics of cults:
                          1. [*=left]a charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose their power;
                            [*=left]a process I call coercive persuasion or thought reform;
                            [*=left]economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.


                          Personally, I like these lists: https://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

                          Cults (in the modern context) are not unlike abusive relationships--the leader of such is the abuser and uses the same sorts of tactics as an abuser. Its all psychology...and ANYONE and EVERYONE is an equally likely target. Psychological manipulation can be used on anyone that isn't familiar with its techniques, and many that are, but think they are cleverer (and therefore less susceptible) than those that might use them. If you watch 48 Hours' special on the The Family, you can see how this sort of plays out...


                          But I think, for anyone wondering how this happens...with a group you've probably never heard of, this is a really good story: https://www.theatlantic.com/national...a-cult/361400/

                          There are something like 10,000 estimated cults in the US. Think about that... We tend to think of them as isolated cases, but they aren't. They tend to be small and fly under the radar...
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                            #14
                            Re: What do you think about cults?

                            See also: Gaslighting

                            11 Warning Signs of Gaslighting: Gaslighting is a manipulation tactic used to gain power. And it works too well.

                            From the article:

                            Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim (sic) question their reality. It works much better than you may think. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders. It is done slowly, so the victim doesn't (sic) realize how much they've been brainwashed.
                            Also: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...favorite-trick
                            Last edited by B. de Corbin; 30 Jun 2018, 05:32.
                            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                              #15
                              Re: What do you think about cults?

                              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                              Please remember that many religions were state religions,required if you did not follow completely you could end up being considered a heretic,and end up being burned at the stake. kind of fits both bills,kidnapping and force,and taught from birth as well. Religion CAN spawn evil with no one understanding that that is where evil is born.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              in something known as the heart of darkness.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Joseph Conrad's most read novella Heart of Darkness has double meaning in its title. One dictionary meaning is that the title refers to the interior of the Africa called Congo. Another hidden meaning is, the title stands for the darkness or the primitiveness that every person possesses in his or her mind and heart.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              One might watch Apocalypse Now based on "the heart of darkness"
                              It's been a while, but I have read Heart of Darkness. I will try to see the movie. I've never seen it before. And I did not think about the whole state religion thing. I should have thought about that.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Thank you all for commenting. I have learned a lot and I appreciate your opinions.
                              Anubisa

                              Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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