Assisted suicide (making it legal)

[pragon]

I'm sure there are many people out there who find this topic disturbing. Many people out there cherish life. I get it. Believe me, I do. But think of it this way.... I for one am in this category. I believe there are many people out there struggling and experiencing severe pain. Whether it be physical/mental. It doesn't matter. I believe there are many people fed up with living and don't want to live or die naturally. Why is suicide illegal. Why do so many people who commit suicide get frowned upon? I get that it may bring pain to the family and other people when that person dies but no one really seems to think of what that person could have been experiencing or going through.

I for example am a rebel to how this world functions around me. I hate being born into a world where I have a number and id. Being apart of this system. It totally makes me sick to grow up and start learning these things. As a kid, life was great. I didn't have to worry about all this adult bullshit. I hate money and I hate working. I don't believe in any of it. Work in a way I do but not how this world has it. I hate the government. I want to live in my own place on earth. Paying for bills and working our asses off just so we can live? THAT IS LIFE!~!!!??? Hell no it ain't. Its slave control. We need money to live right? We don't need it! In fact, we want not the money but what it can bring us.

WHy should anyone own the earths materials. Charging people for it. We have advanced, yes. But I don't understand why this system and life had to go like this in the first place. America They say ohhh its the greatest country ever! I really can't stand when people say that. I don't believe there is any great country. I hate the fact we have to have countries. I wish the whole earth could just be earth and forget all this country and division nonsense. No one should own any part of the world. Its sick to me. It is seriously sick. Forcing humans to adapt and be apart of a system that is so fake. Full of lies. How many times does the government lie to us? and then they say well... To many people on this earth right? We need some form of control. Yeah but I mean wtf! The world is getting populated so fast.

The truth is that I don't want to be like a human. Yeah, I'm born human but I want to live my life as a wild man. Being apart of nature and running naked in the forests. But can I do that without it being illegal and getting arrested? No, I CANT! That is what pisses me off! I can't run and be free like an animal. and they say we are the smartest creatures on this earth? Haha! The animal are better then us. At least they let nature have them be and do what they do. We as humans have become so damn synthetic. Its sickening to me. I hate this technology as well. Yeah I use it but I wish it was never here.

I wish life had no internet, no cell phones, no cars, none of this! Yah I use it. Yeah I kind of like it but I would love it more if it wasn't here controlling me. I feel like it has made me lose my life. Made me into a synthetic being. Almost like a robot. This is how I think... Don't tell me I need help and see a doctor while getting on medications. I am who I am. This is what I believe. Got a problem with it and say I need to fit in? No! If I can't live the way I want, whats the point of me living? Why make suicide illegal? Why shouldn't people with my thinking be assisted? The world needs to start helping more people with me and listening to them. Don't just dis them off.

Yep... That pretty much sums it up. If I can't live and be who I want to be, why should I live? Simple question right there. Why should I live for people and force to be someone I am not? hmm? Why should I handle it since everyone else is doing it? HMM? Okay... I'm done and I'm sorry for sounding and ranting and feeling like I hate everybody but I dont/ Its just how my mind works and how I believe I must be. I hate the system, government, I want to go back in time. I want to experience my true being. This world I feel has blocked me from doing that. I dont want to waist money and go to college and get a job.. .Why? Because I dont want to spend money and go learn something that is going to be my life in the future if I were to study it. for example: Why should I spend money and learn how to be me? Its messed up. You dont learn how to be yourself from other people. You just be yourself!

[Eleanor]

"Being angry doesn't make the world less angry"

I heard that quote once, but I can't remember who said it. It means that if you want a less angry world, be less angry yourself. If you want a world in which there is more love and understanding, start with you.

I used to be angry a lot when I was younger (I feel old now writing that XD ). What helped me was focusing on the positive things going on in this world. What also helped me was aligning my thoughts and feelings to my actions. For example, instead of showing anger because of lack of love in this world, I started showing more love and kindness to others. Because that's what I thought the world needs. It made me feel better, it cost me much less energy and I achieved more than being angry all the time.

There will always be bad things happening in this world. The question is: Is it worth all of your energy?

And yes, at the end of the day you will still need a job to pay the bills and be part of the 'system'. Try to design a life of your own within it that makes you feel at peace and enjoy your life. As you said yourself, I won't tell you how to do that, because you're the only one who can make that happen.

Good luck and I wish you all the love and pizza in the world :)

[Bartmanhomer]

This is just my opinion on this topic. I don't care if some people in this forum will disagree with me of this subject but I got a very strong opinion on this one. I really don't think assisted suicide should be iegal because it's a very bad idea and also it's very selfish to take anybody life away. If every feel that their life isn't worth living, then go get some professional help. There are hospital can help people in this situation. Just my two cents on this topic.

[pillar]

In the places that do have assisted suicide there is a process you must go through. You can't just walk in somplace and say "painless death, please." You would need counseling first off. Then there is a process of informing your friends and family, and helping them at least know why you want to die. You may not like there being countries, but there are countries that allow assisted suicide. If you don't like America the way it is you can move or better yet educate yourself and vote for people that want to make it better. Personaly, I think it's pretty irresponsible to just "check out" of the system because you don't like it. there are plenty of ways to work within the system, nd still be happy. Is it easy? No. But you don't even seem willing to make your life better. Plus living free in the woods is a bad idea. What happens if you get sick, or break a leg or something, you could be in for a very grizzly death. I would like you to think about the afterlife, because I'm sure there are rules and some sort of system there as well, so you might want to prepare yourself for that before moving on.

I'll say it. Get help. I don't know if meds are what you need but there are professionals for this kind of thing that can help just by talking with you, if you let them.

[Sean R. R.]

I'm for euthanasia and assisted suicide. The most fundamental right in my opinion is the right to choose whether to live or not.

[thalassa]

Why can't you live how you want to?

This guy does:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o7UzYDQtmM

Of course, there's also this guy (https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stories/why-are-we-still-talking-about-chris-mccandless).

Other people manage in less extreme ways, like living in an intentional community that meets their needs with like-minded persons or taking extended wilderness trips that let them play the game of life within rules that they can handle, or with enough of a break from the rules that they can manage to keep playing the game. Life is a game. Its always been a game. It's no less a game if you live an unconventional life vs. a conventional one.

If you want to live in the woods eating nuts and berries without a number attached to your name, do it. There are ways one can do so, and there are still places with plenty of open space to do so.

This has nothing to do with suicide. What you are really saying is that you aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary and to take responsibility for living how you say you want to.

I mean, you said it yourself-- "I wish life had no internet, no cell phones, no cars, none of this! Yah I use it. Yeah, I kind of like it but I would love it more if it wasn't here controlling me. I feel like it has made me lose my life. Made me into a synthetic being. Almost like a robot." That's your fault. You don't have to have most of those things. Sure, most of the people I know that don't have them wish they had some of them, depending on where they live, but you don't HAVE to have these things... Get rid of the internet--libraries have them; if you need to use the internet, go there. If you don't want a car, ride a bike to the library or take public transportation or walk...if you have to go somewhere far, there's always a cab or an uber. You might be stuck with the cell phone if you need an uber, but you can always buy unlocked used phones and get month-to-month contracting, which is generally cheaper or get a dumb phone with a card, as opposed to a smartphone. Or, ditch the cell phone and go old school with a landline (a real phone line) and an answering machine if you want people to leave you messages. Other things you don't actually need--cable or a TV, a microwave, an x-box, a couch, a coffee table, a computer, etc....

If you really want to live how you say you do, start purging your possessions. Buy a hiking backpack. You can sell your other stuff (yard sales or eBay at the library) to pay for your hiking backpack. Pare down your possessions, minimalist style--what do you *really* need? If you don't need it or, if you had to abandon bigger things, couldn't carry it out with you on a bike, then get rid of it. If all you have to pay for is housing, minimal electricity (since you got rid of everything) (this is also where you start to practice using less heat or AC, and eventually go to using neither once you are acclimated), water, and food...maybe a month-to-month cell phone bill. Buy things you need second-hand at thrift stores, grow some of your own food, catch your own fish or go hunting (yes, you do need a license, and sorry, there are legitimate ecological reasons for that)...get to the point where you can minimalize the groceries you need in favor of what you can grow, forage, or hunt/fish yourself. The lifestyle you've proposed is a lot of work to actually survive, but practising living it within the rules of the game of THIS society will save you some money that you can use (money is ever so much more convenient to carry around than goats or sacks of apples for barter) to go and practice living it in the places where you want to. Assuming you don't have those skills already, it might also give you the skills that you can use to make a living, living in the types of places where you say you want to live.




As for suicide itself, someone that really wants to end their life generally doesn't care or consider if it is illegal and someone that really wants to end their life and is physically and intellectually capable of doing so doesn't generally need too much help. But yeah, assisted suicide for people with a medical reason for needing it should be available and legal as a legitimate medical treatment.

[prometheus]

It took me just one month of nursing to start supporting assisted suicide. The Royal College of Nursing shifted it's position from opposing assisted suicide to a neutral stance; i'm not sure any other health professional organisation has done so, but i think it's telling that those people who spend the most time around death and the dying are more supportive of it than lay people.

From a spiritual perspective too, what's so wrong about accepting death? There is such a concept as a good death, and having a planned death with a definitive date can accommodate that. It's not for everyone, but it should be choice.

That said, there are plenty of legitimate concerns regarding potential abuse, particularly financial.

[Sean R. R.]

Other things you don't actually need--[...], a couch, [...], etc...

I have to disagree with you on that one.

[anunitu]

me NEEDS my comfy chair,me NEEDS my coffee maker for SURE!! ME NEEDS MY MICROWAVE<YEH,time to cook takes so much TIME,or at least it seems so.

[volcaniclastic]

I have to disagree with you on that one.

I lived without a couch for two years, once. It was totally doable, and I didn't miss it. Pillows on the floor, man! Every single day was a pillow party. It was great, and I actually still sit on the floor of my house more than on my couch.

[Sean R. R.]

I lived without a couch for two years, once. It was totally doable, and I didn't miss it. Pillows on the floor, man! Every single day was a pillow party. It was great, and I actually still sit on the floor of my house more than on my couch.
I'm sorry to keep offtracking the discussion, but pillows on the floor is equivalent to a couch, so it doesn't count! The very concept of couch is a place in which you sit or lie down in the sole object of feeling intense comfort and release from daily physical and mental struggle. A bed can be a couch, a fluffy dog can be a couch. As long as it is comfortable and you feel like the whole meaning of the universe is just that moment of comfort, the object is a couch.

Resume your talk about suicidey things now.

[Hawkfeathers]

I'm all for it. Fortunes are spent keeping 90+ year olds hooked up to machines to maintain "life". These people are not going to recover and go home.

P.S. I love my couch!

[thalassa]

I have to disagree with you on that one.

We don't have one. We have two armchairs and a set of giant floor pillows, but no couch.



I'm sorry to keep offtracking the discussion, but pillows on the floor is equivalent to a couch, so it doesn't count! The very concept of couch is a place in which you sit or lie down in the sole object of feeling intense comfort and release from daily physical and mental struggle. A bed can be a couch, a fluffy dog can be a couch. As long as it is comfortable and you feel like the whole meaning of the universe is just that moment of comfort, the object is a couch.


Nah, a couch is a specific giant piece of livingroom furniture. Not to be confused with a chaise, a loveseat, some armchairs, etc. :D

[anunitu]

Sean is right about the bed,known as a day bed. I had one once,for sleeping and doubles as a couch for friends,not to be confused with a pullout bed couch,

See this image.
https://ballarddesigns.scene7.com/is/image/ballarddesigns/T_WithoutZoom?$w400$&$src=ballarddesigns/MB165_main&$B1=blank&$B3=blank

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also here.
https://d28m5bx785ox17.cloudfront.net/v1/img/zeCnfLot67dAir_LPooVb17RHWaidEXOctsQ10wFyiU=/sc/600x600

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't want to be rude or anything but we're getting way too off-topic about beds and couches.

[anunitu]

If I am going to do the final deed to myself,I would want it to be on a DAYBED! they are real comfy. so still kind of on the main subject,and if I needed to,I would drink the cool aid as an exit strategy.

I personally believe in assisted suicide. I may need it in the future.

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The rule is generally,you MUST be terminal 6 months left to live to be covered by it. and for many they have the coolaid with them for over 6 months,it helps them cope knowing it is always an option. read that in a story by someone who used the coolaid when the pain got way to bad.

[anubisa]

If you are in a lot of pain and can't stand it anymore, then I think you should have the right to ask for help from a friend or family member. It's your life! I wouldn't want to live a life in pain. People don't know what it is like when you are in extreme pain and it isn't curable, whether mental or physical. It's a hard decision, but it is that person's decision.

[thalassa]

I don't want to be rude or anything but we're getting way too off-topic about beds and couches.

Except, if you read the original post, its less about suicide and assisted suicide, and more a rant on the state of the world and one's position in it.

[Bartmanhomer]

Except, if you read the original post, its less about suicide and assisted suicide, and more a rant on the state of the world and one's position in it.

Oh ok. Sorry if I was rude earlier. :)

[Shahaku]

We've also had plenty of these conversations over the years. That's not to say it can't come up again, but it's always a good idea to look and see if your questions have already been covered. If anyone cares to review the opinions of those of us that have commented on similar threads too many times previously here's a list.

http://www.paganforum.com/showthread.php?12827-Death-with-dignity

http://www.paganforum.com/showthread.php?5384-Right-to-die

http://www.paganforum.com/showthread.php?4839-Suicide-a-different-debate

I did not include those threads about suicide as a spiritual experience, how it affects the afterlife, etc.

[heylel shalem]

im all for assisted suicide. Not exactly sure what western cultures hang ups are as far as death and keeping alive people who are obviously are suffering horribly. though i myself am not afraid of death so theres that...

[prometheus]

Not exactly sure what western cultures hang ups are as far as death...

The subject just seems to be swept under the rug, with people only contemplating it when it is thrust upon them: usually too late. But if you try to bring up the subject another time it is quickly hushed; there is never a right time to think or talk about it.

[anunitu]

I agree,at my age,I tend to hope for at lest a soft exit in my much later years(I am 70)