Demon of Alcohol

[prometheus]

Strange question, but does anyone know whether there is a demon associated with alcohol or alcoholism in the Jewish or Christian mythologies? Couldn't find anything on google.

[Bartmanhomer]

Strange question, but does anyone know whether there is a demon associated with alcohol or alcoholism in the Jewish or Christian mythologies? Couldn't find anything on google.

I'm a Christian so I can answer the question for you. Satan always associated with Alcohol. But that's my opinion.

[anunitu]

I think not,remember the water into wine from Jesus. Would Jesus create anything evil?

[Bartmanhomer]

I think not,remember the water into wine from Jesus. Would Jesus create anything evil?

No Jesus would never created anything evil.

[anunitu]

Bacchus - Roman God of Wine - Crystalinks. Dionysus or Dionysos, was the god of the grape harvest, winemaking and wine, of ritual madness and ecstasy in Greek mythology. also possible PAN

[Eleanor]

Did someone say wine? :P

I don't think there is a specific demon associated with alcohol, but then I'm no expert. I'm sure there are demonologists on the forum who know much more about this. I think it also depends on your view on alcohol. It can be enjoyable or it may destroy you. Maybe you could search for demons that have something to do with temptation or (personal) destruction, as alcohol can play a role in that.

[Torey]

Strange question, but does anyone know whether there is a demon associated with alcohol or alcoholism in the Jewish or Christian mythologies? Couldn't find anything on google.

There is no evidence that I can find in my research that directly aligns a specific demon or entity to alcohol or alcoholism which comes from the assembled version(s) of the Bible - Christian or Jewish.

That being said, however, there are demons or spirits within Jewish folklore and Grimoires which may be said to have an association with alcohol. One such spirit is Saphathorael. From the Testament of Solomon:

The twelfth said: "I am called Saphathorael, and I inspire partisanship in men, and delight in causing them to stumble. If any one will write on paper these names of angels, Iaco, Iealo, Ioelet, Sabaoth, Ithoth, Bae, and having folded it up, wear it round his neck or against his ear, I at once retreat and dissipate the drunken fit."

There are also various demons or spirits within other cultures and religious contexts such as Zoroastrianism such as Kuda and Aeshma which may be associated with "drunkenness".

[prometheus]

Some useful stuff there, thanks all. I'll look into it and maybe come back with further questions.

To clarify, it was the negative aspect of the substance i was more interested in. In my research i did find that the root of the word alcohol may share roots with the word for ghoul: both of Arabic origin.

[anunitu]

Some useful stuff there, thanks all. I'll look into it and maybe come back with further questions.

To clarify, it was the negative aspect of the substance i was more interested in. In my research i did find that the root of the word alcohol may share roots with the word for ghoul: both of Arabic origin.

that is an interesting fact

[Florenna]

Seeing the title made me double-check I hadn't somehow mistakenly arrived on a born-again Christian / temperance movement site ;)


To clarify, it was the negative aspect of the substance i was more interested in. In my research i did find that the root of the word alcohol may share roots with the word for ghoul: both of Arabic origin.
In a book I've been reading, it actually says this about the origins of the word:


Similarly, the modern word alcohol illuminates the origins of distilled alcoholic drinks in the laboratories of Arab alchemists. It is descended from al-koh'l, the name given to the black powder of purified antimony, which was used as a cosmetic, to paint or stain the eyelids. The term was used more generally by alchemists to refer to other highly purified substances, including liquids, so that distilled wine later came to be known in English as "alcohol of wine".(Tom Standage, "History Of The World In Six Glasses")

The same book mentions how beer is the oldest alcoholic drink, invented (or discovered) in Mesopotamia around 9000 years ago, and it may actually have been the prompt for the start of agriculture, not food so much ;)

Generally, I do wish people would go more into the positive aspects of the substance (which actually isn't even a "substance" as such - there are various alcohol-containing drinks, no one drinks just generic "alcohol"), instead of always the negative (true or perceived). Just my opinion :)

[anunitu]

see now you have sparked a discussion,and we come out to play

[prometheus]

In a book I've been reading, it actually says this about the origins of the word:


Quite different from what i read. I can't remember my sources, they were all online. Next time i meet an Arabic speaker i'll try to remember to ask.




Generally, I do wish people would go more into the positive aspects of the substance (which actually isn't even a "substance" as such - there are various alcohol-containing drinks, no one drinks just generic "alcohol"), instead of always the negative (true or perceived). Just my opinion :)

Maybe it depends on the local culture, but alcohol is advertised as the best thing in life in my circles: the only thing that makes life worth living if you believe some. Its use is ubiquitous around my ways. As a white male I was socially excluded from many things when i started to refuse to drink. Celebrating Christmas? Alcohol. New Year? Alcohol. New baby? Alcohol. New job? Alcohol. It's getting better in recent years, as it slowly releases it's grip on the nation, but i'm still frowned upon in certain circles. Then I worked as a nurse for over a decade and saw alcohol destroy hundreds of people. The only other drug that came close was heroin, and even that couldn't compare to the pervasive nature of alcohol.

From my perspective alcohol is a truly demonic drug, and it's all the more strange that it is legal while certain psychoactive substances with demonstrable healing properties are still illegal. But i guess that's another discussion.

[Florenna]

Prometheus, I can understand your feelings up to a point, stemming from social exclusion you've felt, etc, I just completely disagree with you on alcohol being evil :) I can relate to social exclusion in a way, but for my part, drinking alcohol is one of the few things I actually have in common with most people ;) Though I'm not actually sure if it is the majority that love to drink - at least where I live it's quite bipolar: to slightly exaggerate, you either drink a lot (like an alcoholic), or then you are a teetotaller (and think alcohol is 'teh devil', a bit like you)... And I'm somewhere in the middle, seeing alcohol as a perfectly normal part of life (and better enjoyed not to too much excess, though it sometimes happens), which seems to be very rare over here at least. (e.g. in the Mediterranean countries it seems to be a more normal attitude, maybe I rather belong there...)

Also, just as an aside, as you mentioned alcohol is kind of the only currently legal way to achieve a slightly altered consciousness, which can be very useful in e.g. magic work & shamanistic practices (though I'm not familiar with the latter).



see now you have sparked a discussion,and we come out to play
Yeah, luckily (for me) this thread wasn't locked... ;)

[prometheus]

Maybe i shouod give some context for the OP. I was writing a short story and thought of writing of a demonic possession with alcoholism as the weakness through which the demon gained entry. I also wanted to leave it a little ambiguous whether there was a demon at all. I was thinking of naming the demon, hence i asked the question.

I don't believe in evil as a literal thing (i'm actually an atheist), but it's fair to say i see societies attitude towards alcohol as extremely unhealthy, to the point i would characterise it as evil in a story. But i agree, it's the attitude towards the substance, rather than the substance itself that is the problem. However, addiction is a nefarious beast, and the number of problem drinkers who think they have a healthy grasp on their habit is well documented in the medical literature. I'm all for adopting a more Mediterranean attitude.

Let me ask: would you accept heroin or cocaine as a perfectly normal part of life? After all, despite the obvious harm they do there are many people who take these substances responsibly, as some do alcohol.

[Azvanna]

In relation to naming the demon one of alcoholism.. another option might be to name the demon after the underlying issue causing the alcoholism?

Your last question is worth discussing, and not just from an Abrahmic perspective. I'd be happy to discuss that from any angle. From a Christian perspective regarding substance use, I'd put it in the same category as 'drunkeness' which is advised against in the New and Old Testament. I guess because it leads to a lack of control over mind and body and deteriorates the body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

As for heroin and cocaine being a perfectly normal part of life.. I'm not sure those types of drugs can be used in moderation? Aren't they designed to be addictive from the very first hit? Myself being someone who doesn't have a lot of impulse control, I'm sure a single use of cocaine would spell ruin for my life! Maybe it would depend on personality.

[anunitu]

as in my other post so good to see you lady.

[prometheus]

In relation to naming the demon one of alcoholism.. another option might be to name the demon after the underlying issue causing the alcoholism?

Good idea.




Your last question is worth discussing, and not just from an Abrahmic perspective. I'd be happy to discuss that from any angle. From a Christian perspective regarding substance use, I'd put it in the same category as 'drunkeness' which is advised against in the New and Old Testament. I guess because it leads to a lack of control over mind and body and deteriorates the body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit.


This is very similar to the fifth precept of Buddhism.



As for heroin and cocaine being a perfectly normal part of life.. I'm not sure those types of drugs can be used in moderation? Aren't they designed to be addictive from the very first hit? Myself being someone who doesn't have a lot of impulse control, I'm sure a single use of cocaine would spell ruin for my life! Maybe it would depend on personality.

A few people can use them in moderation, maybe not many. If we were to look at it objectively we would measure the destructiveness of each drug and base legal decisions around those. The most comprehensive study (https://www.ukcia.org/research/developmentofrationalscale/DevelopmentOfARationalScale.pdf) on this has alcohol as the fifth most destructive drug known to us. According to this study, if we were to say alcohol is the limit of tolerable destructiveness, we should legalise ecstasy and LSD, though heroin and cocaine would remain illegal.

[anunitu]

i have some experience with drinking,i believe they describe it as like a fish,that was me,and i did try coke once,but did not care for it,but i was doing at the time a lot of crystal meth,and acid and weed and uppers and downers,but drink was my main issue mainly shooters Tequila was my fav. no demons but maybe some kicking me in my head the next morning

[Azvanna]

A few people can use them in moderation, maybe not many. If we were to look at it objectively we would measure the destructiveness of each drug and base legal decisions around those. The most comprehensive study (https://www.ukcia.org/research/developmentofrationalscale/DevelopmentOfARationalScale.pdf) on this has alcohol as the fifth most destructive drug known to us. According to this study, if we were to say alcohol is the limit of tolerable destructiveness, we should legalise ecstasy and LSD, though heroin and cocaine would remain illegal.

I was having this same conversation with a friend just last week. We were discussing that difference between what is considered socially acceptable vs what might be less damaging for the body. It's hard to mentally get over the social norm aspect. For myself, I would be less okay with using MDMA than getting inebriated, but that's only based on what I'm familiar with. Thanks for the link. I'm reading through it now.

I'm only a little familiar with Buddhist teaching having studied world religions at school. I did know sobriety was well regarded, but I didn't know it was a precept. I like that Buddhism and Christianity share an emphasis on cultivating habits of the mind. The use of drugs to enhance spiritual experiences might have made sense to me at some point but now I'm not sure how I would get over the thought of those experiences being so subjective. I'd be much more inclined to just have the experience for its own sake.

Anunitu, with your long list there, I feel like we're lucky you're still with us! ^.^ And thanks for your welcome. :)

[anunitu]

i came close to buying the farm a few times,but i think the goddess was watching over me

[Tylluan Penry]

A lot of alcoholism in my family - not funny at all. But I don't subscribe to 'Today's social drinkers are tomorrow's alcoholics' in its entirety either. Yes, some are, but not all.

I think there's a genetic aspect to this too, since my siblings and I have very low tolerance to drinking.

Not all drinks are the same either. Shandy is technically alcohol. But trust me, absinthe is in a class of its own. One spoonful and the bloody room started spinning, so never again...

[Azvanna]

Not all drinks are the same either. Shandy is technically alcohol. But trust me, absinthe is in a class of its own. One spoonful and the bloody room started spinning, so never again...

:XD laugh: Never heard of Absinthe until this moment. 45-75% alcohol?! I wanna try!

[Tylluan Penry]

It's 110 - 144% proof which is pretty bloody high. Used to make people go blind...

[monsno_leedra]

:XD laugh: Never heard of Absinthe until this moment. 45-75% alcohol?! I wanna try!

Absinthe falls into the moonshine / grain alcohol category for a lot of people. The stuff I've seen also falls into the everclear category as it to is clear, has no smell at all. Used to add fruit mix to give it some taste and color. Makes you go crazy and can kill you in to time at all at the higher percentages.

Some of this reminds me of my youth when my grandfather used to make various wines and other "Things". I recall him paying us kids to pick dandelions so he could make dandelion wine in our bathtub. Oh the stories we heard of running moonshine out of the mountains in his youth.

[volcaniclastic]

:XD laugh: Never heard of Absinthe until this moment. 45-75% alcohol?! I wanna try!

It was popular in medieval Europe. Distilled from the wormwood plant (grows like a weed in some areas), it's a high proof spirit. Wormwood has some minor pyschoactive properties, however, and absinthe was banned for a number of years.

It was Hemingway's favourite beverage, and it tastes very similar to aniseseed.

It's bright green, and if hemmingway is to be believed, best drunk with champagne (the beverage being called "Death in the afternoon").

The more you know!

[anunitu]

i was going to comment on the wormwood thing,van go used to drink it and was the cause of his ear being cut off i read.

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see here.

https://www.absinthe101.com/famous.html

[Hawkfeathers]

Some people are less prone to addiction than others. Nobody knows why. My father quit smoking cigarettes in one day. My ex was a pretty major cocaine user in the '80s - he couldn't just judge when to party, stop, allow time for sleep, and get to work on time on Monday. I knew lots of folks, though, who went absolutely wild on the weekends but that's all. And if they left the situation where it was available, they never even looked for it again, while others squandered their lives over it. People say doing meth or heroin just one time hooks you for life. Not universally true! But it's not worth the risk...

[B. de Corbin]

:XD laugh: Never heard of Absinthe until this moment. 45-75% alcohol?! I wanna try!

You dribble ice water over a sugar cube or two into the absinthe. You end up diluting about 3:1. The absinthe becomes swirly-cloudy - it's called "the louche." It's caused by water mixing with the anise - ouzo does the same thing.

There's a lot of bla bla bla about the wormwood's supposed hallucinogenic properties, however, classic recopies (from the days of Van Gogh) have very little wormwood in them. The "properties" of absinthe comes from the high powered alcohol content. Some companies, like Lucid, beef up the wormwood in the recipie to play on wormwood hype, but end up with a nasty flavor. You'll still get rippin' drunk, though.

The best absinthe I've had is LA CLANDESTINE (https://flaviar.com/la-clandestine/la-clandestine-absinthe/tasting-notes-reviews), which is a clear absinthe from Switzerland (I imported it, slightly illegally, before the U.S. ban was lifted). Grande Absinthe (https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/dining/reviews/13wine.html) is probably the best you'll be able to find locally - at around $65 a bottle, and 138 proof.

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:XD laugh: Never heard of Absinthe until this moment. 45-75% alcohol?! I wanna try!

You dribble ice water over a sugar cube or two into the absinthe. You end up diluting about 3:1. The absinthe becomes swirly-cloudy - it's called "the louche." It's caused by water mixing with the anise - ouzo does the same thing.

There's a lot of bla bla bla about the wormwood's supposed hallucinogenic properties, however, classic recopies (from the days of Van Gogh) have very little wormwood in them. The "properties" of absinthe comes from the high powered alcohol content. Some companies, like Lucid, beef up the wormwood in the recipie to play on wormwood hype, but end up with a nasty flavor. You'll still get rippin' drunk, though.

The best absinthe I've had is LA CLANDESTINE (https://flaviar.com/la-clandestine/la-clandestine-absinthe/tasting-notes-reviews), which is a clear absinthe from Switzerland (I imported it, slightly illegally, before the U.S. ban was lifted). Grande Absinthe (https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/dining/reviews/13wine.html) is probably the best you'll be able to find locally - at around $65 a bottle, and 138 proof.

[Florenna]

How did this discussion evolve into talking about Absinthe..? ;) (Something I've never tried, and don't particularly want to - now that I might even agree to being "demonic"...)




I don't believe in evil as a literal thing (i'm actually an atheist), but it's fair to say i see societies attitude towards alcohol as extremely unhealthy, to the point i would characterise it as evil in a story. But i agree, it's the attitude towards the substance, rather than the substance itself that is the problem. However, addiction is a nefarious beast, and the number of problem drinkers who think they have a healthy grasp on their habit is well documented in the medical literature. I'm all for adopting a more Mediterranean attitude.

Let me ask: would you accept heroin or cocaine as a perfectly normal part of life? After all, despite the obvious harm they do there are many people who take these substances responsibly, as some do alcohol.
No; I'm with Azvanna here - not sure those two can ever be used moderately. Anyway, it's a moot point, since as long as they are illegal, we're not likely to find that out, either.

I was actually reading a no-nonsense (i.e. non-posh, like they often are) book about wine the other day, and it said how e.g. water is historically responsible for more deaths than wine or any alcoholic drink ever ;) There's some perspective for you, or anyone. (i.e water has in the past usually contained bacteria, while alcoholic drinks are & have been mostly free of those.) Also, it mentioned how health authorities (at least where I live) just love to talk about and exaggerate the "devils" i.e. health costs of alcohol, while they are curiously silent about other bigger costs, e.g. those caused by stress and mental unwellness at work, which are double those caused by alcohol (again, at least where I live)...

Also, a good point in the book was how drinking wine (or beer, or any other drink you enjoy) contributes to pleasure & enjoyment of life, which contribute to general happiness, which is only a good thing, also for your health. ;) My stance exactly, thus I really cannot understand or agree with the generally negative, totalitarian attitudes towards those drinks. If they don't contribute to someone's happiness, fine, but please don't try to deny that for other people! Anyway, just wanted to point these out; seeing how I feel about the issue, and seeing this topic was basically of an opposite view regarding alcoholic drinks, it's probably better I sign off from this discussion. ;)

[anunitu]

it was known as the green fairy

https://www.alandia.de/green-fairy

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do not ask how I know this

[volcaniclastic]

Florenna makes a good point. Back on topic, folks.

[Tylluan Penry]

You have a good point, Florenna, and in Europe I think we have a more relaxed attitude to drinking than the US seems to have. Your comment about water is spot on. My husband's grandfather only drank cider until he was about 12 years old because the water in the well where he lived (Somerset) was so unsafe.

[anunitu]

yes they had kid beer because of bad water,now known as near beer.

[Oshii]

I'm not aware of any Demons specifically connected to Alcohol, however, it could be interpreted that Alcohol may stir the demons already within us and remove the inhibitor to allow them to act out.

[Azvanna]

I'm not aware of any Demons specifically connected to Alcohol, however, it could be interpreted that Alcohol may stir the demons already within us and remove the inhibitor to allow them to act out.

Wow! yes. :) That would be a good concept to link into your story, Prometheus, along with the idea of underlying cause of addiction. Addiction is a tangled little web. I love reading stories of how protaginists actions weave together to create a world-changing outcome. Could explore that same web from an antagonistic point of view.


Florenna makes a good point. Back on topic, folks.

Moderator got moderated. Oops. :D

[anunitu]

wait,what? oh ok.