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Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

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    Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

    From here: http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...tion-providers

    Wow....wth?? That is just so very sad....the worst of it is the circumventing of the will of the people, when an abortion ban has been voted down twice before. The fact that they are trying to find a loop hole to go against the will of the people actually sickens me.....
    Allow me to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket. ~ Captain Jack Sparrow

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    #2
    Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

    Oh dear, you'd think this would have been sorted out long ago.... I wonder how they would view aborting Hitler?
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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      #3
      Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

      There's something hinky goin' on in SD. They put their abortion ban to a public vote and it PASSED. Now, they're going to make it 'justifiable' to defend an unborn child, life for life.

      You would think that people knew what they were doing, when they voted for this. You'd think that all the bad publicity would make them aware of how neanderthal they're legislation really is.

      Apparently not.




      "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

      "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

      "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

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        #4
        Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

        Remind me never to move to South Dakota...

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          #5
          Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

          That's stupid.


          Mostly art.

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            #6
            Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

            I just viewed their tourism page. OMG They have Laura Ingalls Wilder's homestead! I want to go!


            But..yeah, this is just retarded. I think my unborn fetus of years down the line might be harmed by this law just in case she would decide to have an abortion. So I should be able to kill all those people that might harm her by taking away her rights. Right?
            Satan is my spirit animal

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              #7
              Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

              There's actually a problem here that you may not be seeing. I don't know if it will change your view, but it might expand your thinking a bit -

              There have been cases where a pregnant woman was beaten to the point where she spontaneously aborted. In these cases, the law can only punish the criminal for beating the woman - because... in order for abortion to work legally, the fetus has to be legally defined as non-human.

              However, from the point of view of the woman who lost the baby, that criminal was a murderer - he(she) killed her baby. For a family that WANTS a baby, this is an immense and horrible travesty of justice.

              There's real big kink in our thinking about abortion - to a woman who does not want the baby, it isn't human. To a woman who does, that fetus is just a human as if she were holding it in her arms. We are defining "human" in terms of what is convenient for us.

              It could be that you are right, and those folks out there in the Dakotas are a bunch of rednecks with their guns and horses and cowboy hats, taking a back door approach to an abortion ban, but, before you write this off, at least consider the possibility that there may be more to this than you are presently seeing.

              Personally, if somebody was doing something to my wife that might have caused a spontaneous abortion, I'd kill them to stop it, law or no law. But that's just me... I wanted those kids.
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                #8
                Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                I don't know, it doesn't seem so hard for me. All you have to do is make "forceful abortion" illegal (as in, the woman did not choose to lose her baby and was somehow forced into aborting it). You don't have to go around making laws that prevent women from being able to choose themselves.

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                  #9
                  Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                  Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                  I don't know, it doesn't seem so hard for me. All you have to do is make "forceful abortion" illegal (as in, the woman did not choose to lose her baby and was somehow forced into aborting it). You don't have to go around making laws that prevent women from being able to choose themselves.
                  Yup - that's what you'd do. What does this law actually do?

                  Did you read the updates published in the mother Jones article?
                  Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                    #10
                    Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                    Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                    I don't know, it doesn't seem so hard for me. All you have to do is make "forceful abortion" illegal (as in, the woman did not choose to lose her baby and was somehow forced into aborting it). You don't have to go around making laws that prevent women from being able to choose themselves.
                    Exactamundo! This whole thing is about taking womens rights away, and women are being talked into it. The recession is making men more competitive for good jobs, and the best way to get rid of women in the high-paying workplace is to keep them pregnant/home/raising kids.
                    Being a stay-at-home housewife and/or mom is a worthy and wonderful thing, but it is NOT a choice. It is an opportunity. There's a HUGE difference. (If I say "Starting Monday at 9 a.m., I'm a housewife." - and simply stop generating income - who's gonna pay the bills? It's a partnership option, not a choice made by one sovereign person.)
                    Everything I fought for AND WON in the 70's is evaporating. If young women don't realize what they have to lose, they will lose it. Credit in their own name, the right to vote, the right to be a full human being.....it's now or never, girls....what do you want for yourselves and your daughters?
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                      #11
                      Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post

                      Did you read the updates published in the mother Jones article?
                      I sure did...

                      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                        #12
                        Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                        I'm glad you posted that, because, I did miss it. *blush*

                        I agree though...if he feels the need to change the language, what exactly is the purpose of this bill? The mother's rights are already protected where violence is concerned?

                        Personally, these updates are proof that he's an arse with an arse idea and he's being called on it....I will be highly surprised if it goes through with said language amendments without overlapping laws that are already in place....
                        Allow me to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket. ~ Captain Jack Sparrow

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                          #13
                          Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                          The point is that the mother's rights regarding what she sees as her child are *not* protected where violence is concerned...in which case, I can totally get behind legislation that is intended to exonerate a husband that kills the guy that, while holding up a convenient store, shoots his spouse that is 9 months pregnant in the stomach causing the baby to die while the the mother survives...or to allow that same robber to be prosecuted with murder, just as if he had shot a baby in a car seat.

                          The problem, of course, is that there is a slippery slope to some people. Personally I can see the difference between the two, and think that a law could be written that discerns between a voluntary abortion of a fetus, and an act of assault that involuntarily causes the miscarriage or stillbirth of a child.
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                            #14
                            Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                            I also think that the law could be written that way, and it may be that that is the intent of Representative Jensen. It could be that, when it was made clear that the law could be misinterpreted, he went back to clarify the language. In the first update, Jensen is quoted as saying:

                            "If you look at the code, these codes are dealing with illegal acts. Now, abortion is a legal act. So this has got nothing to do with abortion." (emphasis added)

                            So, unless Jensen is speaking out of his southernmost mouth, that seems to be his intention.
                            Last edited by B. de Corbin; 16 Feb 2011, 18:42. Reason: typos
                            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                              #15
                              Re: Preventing harm to a fetus a "justifiable homicide"

                              (I'd typed out a whole reply & it disappeared... weird.)

                              This law just seems really redundant to me.

                              If someone attacks you with the full intent of harming or killing you, whether you're a pregnant woman or not, and you kill them - it's self-defense. I believe, in certain circumstances, if a person witnesses someone attacking someone else, & they kill the attacker, they have legal protection as well. In some places, if an attacker kills both the pregnant woman and her collection of cells/fetus, it's two counts of murder, anyway. Why add special consideration to just the internal offspring?

                              This could also be used as a stepping stone to give the impending offspring more rights than the mother. What if a pregnant woman decides to have an abortion? She's intending the death of her unborn child, so if someone kills her, are they protected in the eyes of the law?
                              The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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