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    The Importance of Community

    The survey about the importance of Elders kind of got me thinking...

    I'm a solitary Pagan for the most part. Right now, the only spiritual or religious 'community' I have is right here, or on my blog. For a couple of years during the late '90s, here in Vegas, we actually had a Pagan community with a public presence. There were a couple of different Wiccan groups that got together for Sabbats, held public rituals and get-togethers, that kind of thing. But, people moved, people fought, time moved on. Now I'll see a few people at the occasional Renaissance Faire, but it's fewer and fewer every year. I was even scouted for a coven that never took off, lol.

    I've tried, at various times during my life, to start communities. Covens, study groups, spiritual circles, you name it. I got a pretty good dose of why it is so hard to begin and maintain any kind of working group like that. Scheduling is a nightmare, especially when you live and work in a 24/7 town. Here in Vegas, and in more and more towns across the US, we don't have a traditional work-week. Because I work 4 10-hr shifts, my weekend is Sunday/Monday/Tuesday, but someone else in an 8-hr shift may have Weds/Thu off. I work graveyard, they work swing, someone else works early days... you get my drift. Then the transportation and child-care problems pop up. Other holidays and family obligations. On the rare occasions when I was able to get the same people to meet more than twice, well... that's when the personality conflicts would start.

    I've always had this desire to be part of an IRL community, but more and more it's becoming apparent that it will never happen. How important are elders to a bunch of people who never see each other? Who only talk online? How important is the passing along of knowledge and experience when you can visit any number of libraries or websites and read about other people who've done it all and then some? In other words, how important is it to the modern Pagan, and modern Paganism, to have a real-world community, a group of people of all ages and walks of life, in which to have spiritual or religious experiences?

    Or, conversely, if you're part of a community like that, how did it come together, and what do you feel that people like myself are missing out on?
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

    #2
    Re: The Importance of Community

    This is why I plan to pass on a BoS I made to pass on to someone (I'm not planning to have children, so that's why I say "someone" and not a child). These days it's hard to get people to come together, and that's without work or children involved. Take the recent event in another thread, for example. Who wants to deal with others who scream and cry because people aren't kowtowing to the "pentultimate expert"?
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      #3
      Re: The Importance of Community

      My question is, why in being a part of a community, must it be pagan oriented? I am a part of my community, and it has very little to do with my what gods I venerate. I am a Lubbockite, and a proud one at that. I share in the victories and failures of my town. When one of my alma maters win or lose a sporting event, I feel the joys or pangs right along with them. I know when we have a bumper cotton crop and feel the impact it has on the city.

      Community is not limited to whatever religion you hold. A relatively few number of my friends venerate the Regin. Conversely, the majority of my friends and family are christian. This does not impede me from being a part of my community nor does it prevent the community from accepting me. Sorry, but this has always been a pet peeve of mine.
      "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

      "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

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        #4
        Re: The Importance of Community

        [quote author=Crimson Horizons link=topic=246.msg2305#msg2305 date=1287009092]
        My question is, why in being a part of a community, must it be pagan oriented?
        [/quote]

        Well, this particular topic is specifically about religious and/or spiritual communities, not 'just any ol' community'. If I was talking about community in general, I would have posted the topic in General Discussion and asked people 'how important is the concept of community in general to you'?
        The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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          #5
          Re: The Importance of Community

          [quote author=perzephone link=topic=246.msg2321#msg2321 date=1287013422]
          Well, this particular topic is specifically about religious and/or spiritual communities, not 'just any ol' community'. If I was talking about community in general, I would have posted the topic in General Discussion and asked people 'how important is the concept of community in general to you'?
          [/quote]

          Apologies. I read the title "The Importance of Community" and assumed that was actually what the topic was about. My pardon.
          "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

          "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

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            #6
            Re: The Importance of Community

            I'm kind of 'of two minds', actually.

            Generally, I think when it comes to those small pagan communities, that there's too much politics, power struggles and back-stabbing etc. for me to want anything to do with them.

            I've attempted, more than once, to start or join a local pagan community (each: covens, groves and study groups), only to find human nature over-ruling pagan interests and tenets.

            On the other hand, I'm part of a sizable online community that is, admittedly, not strictly pagan and most certainly not in agreement, on most things 'religious'. And though human nature *has* reared it's ugly head, the sense of community is much stronger than the drama and struggles of RL groups, I've encountered.

            I really don't consider my experience to be the *only* type of groups... just enough that I don't and won't look for another bunch of human asshats to join. Interwebz, not included.




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              #7
              Re: The Importance of Community

              I dont think its necessary for an organized community, but it is good to know other people. set up gatherings in your area, for people to meet other people with similar interests. dont bother with too much structure or anything. make it a fun get together. It will build networking in the community between people. I personally like teaching people things, and once I gain more knowledge I plan on doing that. Find people to take under your wing, offer guidance. but any time you try to cause structure within a large group, it will fall apart. Just like this forum, not everyone will agree. but to be allowed to agree to disagree is what makes this forum such a great place. =o)
              "Sometimes bad things happen, and theres nothing you can do about it, so why worry?" ~ Timon

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                #8
                Re: The Importance of Community

                when i was catholic, one of the things i loved was the ability to, after we took in spiritual nourishment, we took in physical nourishment together. potlucks, church picnics, all that stuff. while you didnt know everyone, you knew someone who knew the people you didnt. there was a sense of extended family, a sense that because my friend trusts that stranger, i feel i can trust them too (to a certain extent).

                my gf and i both have expressed interest in something like that, with a pagan sense to it. to have a designated spot that we could go to which served teens and elders, young families and parents who were having their first grandchild born soon. a way to feel a solidity in our religious choice. the closest i have to that right now is you guys, and while i love it i cant ask you to watch the (hypothetical) kids for me while sharyn and i go out tonight. nor can i show off my new chili recipe to you while casually talking about my faith. actually, i COULD, but the cam would get goopy

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                  #9
                  Re: The Importance of Community

                  Im not part of a real life Pagan community per se... I have this community online, and there are people I celebrate with who aren't really Pagan.
                  But I do have people I can talk to about religious practices and my spirituality which serves some of that need for me.

                  I think I'm always going to be solitary. I don't like socialising very much IRL, and have trouble making new friends IRL. But I like the online community well enough

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                    #10
                    Re: The Importance of Community

                    I am on the committee of the local pagan network, and a member of a kindred in the next town over. I'd just point out here that for many Heathens being part of the local secular community is important to their 'spiritual path', so CH's response isn't really OT. I'd like to be more involved in the local community as a whole.

                    Despite the fact I'm on the committee, go to almost every Moot and am reasonably friendly with the core of the group, I still feel something of an outsider. However I think it's important that I be there as there are very few non-Wiccans in my town's pagan network and it'd be so easy for them to forget we exist and become the sort of organisation that completely ignores non-Wiccish paganism and yet still aspires to speak for 'paganism'. Plus I like some of the people. Also someone has to organise things like our annual pagan conference, and if I want to go to that kind of thing (and I do) then I can't expect other people to do all the work all of the time.

                    The kindred is very important to me as Heathen rituals are pretty dependant on having people to do them with. That's not to say you can't be a solitary Heathen, just it'd be hard. There was a period at the beginning of this year when the guy who organises blots dropped off the radar due to a difficult relationship break up and I started getting really twitchy! Fortunately he's re-emerged all the stronger and the Kindred has been put on a firmer footing, actually becoming a kindred, rather than a bunch of people who just get together now and again.
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                      #11
                      Re: The Importance of Community

                      I only know three other pagans in the real world. They are all solitary (as am I) and they are not all that local to me. Plus we all have different paths and beliefs.

                      I'd love to be a part of a local pagan community where we could meet up and be apart of something together, even if it wasn't spiritually based. While friends know my beliefs and some know that I am a witch but it's often lonely not having others of a similar bent to talk to.

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                        #12
                        Re: The Importance of Community

                        Reading this thread makes me realise how blessed I am to be living where I am. My city (and I realise this sentence makes a wierd kind of nonsence) has a strong community of Solitary, Semi Solitary and Coven practitioners.

                        One meeting a month in a local pub is all the contact with other pagan's I need (mostly).
                        I follow the Magpie path. "Oh SHINY belief" Yoink!

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                          #13
                          Re: The Importance of Community

                          Hmmm I realised I didn't actually address the questions you asked Perz...

                          [quote author=perzephone link=topic=246.msg2168#msg2168 date=1286992245]
                          How important are elders to a bunch of people who never see each other? Who only talk online? How important is the passing along of knowledge and experience when you can visit any number of libraries or websites and read about other people who've done it all and then some? In other words, how important is it to the modern Pagan, and modern Paganism, to have a real-world community, a group of people of all ages and walks of life, in which to have spiritual or religious experiences?

                          Or, conversely, if you're part of a community like that, how did it come together, and what do you feel that people like myself are missing out on?
                          [/quote]I think there are some things it is difficult to practise alone and some things we all need advice etc on which may be easier to deal with face-to-face. Books can only teach so much, plus it can be really hard to tell good books from bad, especially for the young and/or inexperienced.

                          And there are the legal reasons - safety in numbers and so on. National orgs may be a pain, they may get it wrong an awful lot, but they fight the pagan corner for legal rights. And if there's going to be national orgs someone has to run them, just like someone has to run the fun events that everyone wants and then bitches about endlessly.

                          Online it can be easy to closet yourself in a forum where people think the way you do. How many newbies have we corrected (usually gently) only to find they never return? What's the betting a bunch of them end up in a forum where fluff is the order of the day? Mind you the same thing can happen in real life too...


                          * * *
                          You can find some of my creative writing at http://libbyscribbles.com

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                            #14

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                              #15
                              Re: The Importance of Community

                              I believe having 'Elders' would be a fantastic idea. However, the 'Elders' would have to be people who work solely for others, have studied their Path...er...religiously, and really want to just help those who may have wandered a little off their own Path. It would have been great if I could have found someone who simply sat me down and said 'This isn't going to be an easy Path, but no great thing in life that trully means something is easy. If you are serious, I will show you how to make this Path yours.'. I honestly would have dived into it a little sooner, when the curiousity had peeked but the fear was still strong. Had I met someone with a gentle hand and gentler motives, I'd probably be Dedicated by now. ^ - ^

                              BUT, this just doesn't happen in RL. As others have posted, human nature will rear it's head. I would like to maybe one day get beyond that and become Monk-like; it would be nice to guide questions to their answers like no one had done for me. Will it ever happen? I'd like to think so, but I also think that would make me seem a little egotistic... XD

                              Should we have 'Elders'? I believe we should. Will it ever be possible? Well, world peace is possible, but plausible....no.

                              By the way, I am solitary for the same reasons posted above and then some. I like you guys/gals though. ^-^
                              The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

                              Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

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