Chaos Magic

[Foxman]

I was recently doing some research into Chaos magic, and I wanted to know your opinions on it where. It seems pretty viable and I like the no holds barred magic idea, but I wanted to know opinions. I've been pagan for a while, but i grew up an athiest with athiest parents and its hard for me to wrap my head around the whole gods thing. I'd like to, but its hard.

Also a question, would Chaos magic be a good jumpstart for me to change my belief systems?

The page i was looking at on Chaos Magic: <Link Removed. Please contact this member via PM for the Link>

[Caelia]

Re: Chaos Magic

I'll see if I can summon my bf. He works with this a lot more than I have.

It really depends on your personal views. I found it wasn't really for me since I wasn't comfortable with the idea of only believing or practicing something that served the desired outcome. It came off as a bit of lipservice to me.

That said I did learn a lot from it. I learned how to better build sigils, more effectively work with energy, and how it can benefit people who really want to work with "the flow" of things.

[Ophidia]

Re: Chaos Magic

Just... well... don't ask about the hot dogs.

And forget I mentioned them.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Chaos Magic

Ah! I've seen that site before. It's actually a wonderful introductory guide to Chaos Magic. The whole idea is it is a "Meta belief" structure - it is, yet it isn't a set of beliefs on it's own. Rather, it is an approach that uses belief itself as a tool for your work and life.

If you want to work with Angels because one such Angel meets a specific need or desire, you might want to consider praying to the Christian God for a while, reading your bible, and living as a Christian. If the Saints do it, guess what? You're Catholic for the moment. If self-worship with imagery of a rebellious god-image in the demonic realm would help you learn to trust yourself, you're a LaVeyan Satanist for the time being. If Ganesha speaks to you, there are plenty of resources out there from New Agers that can help you get to know this Hindu God, and almost as many from Hindus themselves. And sometimes, I'm an Atheist who has been playing a psychological drama out in his own head as a form of self-therapy. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

The best description I have of how to do this comes from the Satanic Bible - quite literally, you suspend your disbelief. You stop questioning, and in an altered state of consciousness, follow through the rituals or workings that are necessary. They don't have to be perfect, it's the intent that matters, and that you've done your homework about who you're working with. In a way, it is the ultimate Experimental Cultural Anthropology, but put towards a psychological or magical goal.

Okay, this "suspension of disbelief" thing... wtf? You probably do it all the time. Remember watching cartoons as a kid, and even though the colors were funny, you didn't question that those were people? Or how you didn't question why a bunny could say "what's up Doc?" You just went with the ride to enjoy the story and the characters. Or how you can get so wrapped up in a book, TV show, or movie that you quit noticing small inconsistencies, and just get wrapped up in the fantasy?

What we want is something like that. Somewhere between getting lost in pretend-games and absolute belief forever and ever, lies this goal. Hence, role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons are sometimes seen as an unconventional tool for this sort of thing - though Chaos Magicians are more rare than you might think among D&D players.

The closer to absolute belief you can get, the better. However, you still wanna be able to pull out after you're done, and throw up your disbelief again as a shield from getting locked into a particular dogma. This same suspension of disbelief could help someone change their belief system - in fact I say its necessary for making that change in a healthy, genuine way - but a Chaos magician would ask "why would you want to do that?"

Personally, I've found that Taoism seems to stick a bit harder than anything else - its one that I just can't shake, and my disbelief doesn't work as well as it used to. However, I'm lucky in that Taoism is so flexible as a philosophy that it works well with just about any other religion. A lot of people who get into Chaos Magic Theory (sitting around conceptualizing *how the world works* according to chaos magicians - religion for the meta-religion? BAD JUJU!!!) tend to like Taoism as well, so I'm in good company.

Then again, the other tools you see described on that site, like servitors and sigils are things that anyone can use. Quite literally, you don't have to be a Chaos magician to do those things, they're not attached to any belief system. Sometimes people consider themselves Chaos Magicians for using those tools, and not the odd approach to belief that I spent the entire post describing. Others describe themselves as Chaos Magicians for doing all of this without a belief in magic, but more as people participating in a narrative form of self-therapy.

Who am I to tell those folks who do it differently that they're not Chaos Magicians? Its just a word, and those can have several definitions.

[Siloh]

Re: Chaos Magic

I'm resurrecting this thread instead of making a new one about basically the same thing.

I'm very interested in both Chaos Magic and Discordianism alongside LaVeyan Satanism, chased with a cocktail of philosophy and psychoanalytical theory.

The link posted here is down, so I'm just sort of wondering if anyone can point me toward some good resources, especially online.

AzazelEblis, you seem like a wellspring. I hope you post again now that it is risen.