Do you guys use runes? Do you think the blank rune exists or not? (personally I don't believe in it, but well, I use runes almost never)
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=pihlaja link=topic=92.msg3851#msg3851 date=1287327315]
Do you guys use runes? Do you think the blank rune exists or not? (personally I don't believe in it, but well, I use runes almost never)
[/quote]The blank rune is modern bullshit and the product of someone's overactive imagination. I'm assuming Ralph Blum's as I've never heard it attributed to anyone else.
Personally I don't use runes as a divination method. Partly because I'm crap at divination, partly because I'm not convinced of the case for them ever having been used for divination. I do occasionally use them as symbols.
**edited by Thalassa to change title* * *
You can find some of my creative writing at http://libbyscribbles.com -
Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=Maythe link=topic=92.msg3860#msg3860 date=1287331567]
The blank rune is modern bullshit and the product of someone's overactive imagination. I'm assuming Ralph Blum's as I've never heard it attributed to anyone else.
[/quote]
Haha, that's what I thought too.. but didn't dare to say it out loud. xDComment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
The blank rune has been around for at least 400 years... that's where the records ends, with my ancestor from Louisiana.
It's possible that the blank rune was there during Norman/Celtic occupation of England, but there are no oral or textual confirmation of this, except for certainty that the blank rune is Anglo-Saxon of origin.
It represents Wyrd, the Uncontrollable Destiny... as opposed to the Jera rune which represents the Controllable Destiny.Comment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=TaiganPagan link=topic=92.msg6248#msg6248 date=1287898990]
The blank rune has been around for at least 400 years... that's where the records ends, with my ancestor from Louisiana.
It's possible that the blank rune was there during Norman/Celtic occupation of England, but there are no oral or textual confirmation of this, except for certainty that the blank rune is Anglo-Saxon of origin.
It represents Wyrd, the Uncontrollable Destiny... as opposed to the Jera rune which represents the Controllable Destiny.
[/quote]
I'm going to have to demand references. The earliest occurrence of the "blank rune" that I am aware of is when Ralph Blum (admittedly*) created it for his books. **
I will require, proof, or valid references to the "blank rune" (I refuse to capitalize the word "Rune" in that context) and its Anglo-Saxon origins. The claim of your Rune using ancestor from 400 years ago in Louisiana is anecdotal, and highly suspicious.
You see, there are NO records of the "blank rune" in Europe. We know that the Germanic people came to the Americas over 1000 years ago, but there is no record of Europeans in Louisiana before 1528, which was more than 400 years after the abolition of Heathenry in Northern Europe in 1090.
I challenge you to cite proof, or even semi-valid references for the "blank rune" that predates Ralph Blum.
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* In the introduction to Ralph Blum's book "The Book of Runes," he admits that he created the "blank rune." If you don't believe me, read the book.
** "Blum claims that this blank rune idea came from a hand made rune set he bought in England the 1970s. He kept them unused for a few years, until one day he found them and started playing with them.
Blum decided to ignore the traditional Futhark order and three Aetts division (3 rows of 8 runes), and re-organised the 25 tiles into a random grid." (cited from http://www.mackaos.com.au/Articles/Blank.html)"Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"Comment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
It's from the Journal of Nicholas, who came from France to Louisiana, however, I have consult it once in Quebec City, but I do not know where it is now.
But there's a site mentioning the 16Th century:
http://www.runemaker.com/futhark/blankrune.shtml
in Characteristics
Also in
http://www.rune-tattoos.com/futhark2.shtml
My wooden rune casting sets (see http://runemaker.com) also include a blank piece because some folks like to use it to represent Destiny or Fate. I don't use it myself. This idea is quite modern and was advocated by Ralph Blum with his rather suspect work "The Book of Runes". Contrary to common belief, he was not the originator of the blank rune which is referenced in research materials in my possession as early as the 16Th Century. But most serious rune users do not bother with a blank It's not a rune so it has no significance in a divining sense, they just keep the blank piece as a spare.
End Quotes
The origin of the Blank Rune is a mystery....
I am sure that it does not exist in Elder Futhark and Younger Futhark... it is added as Blum admitted it.
There's a grey area which between the 8Th and 16Th century in which it came to be and was carried by Futhorc.
However it is added to some Heathen rune sets, some reason of history, mines has it and it's at least 400 years old.
I suspect that words needed spaces and they used the blank rune as a space to separate words. Because messages were brought on necklaces with runes used as letters. Just like money coins with holes were used and pile on a necklace.
[hr]
Heathen antiques and documentation is so rare and jalously protected by their owners and descendants. If I had the only copy of some stuff, I would do that.
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Found a third site about the 16th century presence of the blank rune
http://propsychicchat.blogspot.com/
. Its more of a modern creation. Its usually "tied" to Ralph Blum, who wrote The Book of Runes in the '80's. There is some evidence that it amy have been used in the 16th century. But as far as the "elders" usage, I don't feel that they used a blank. Runes were used as an alphabet, for inscriptions and such, so how would a blank serve its purpose? Only for divination purposes.
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
Taigan, the first two links you gave do not support your position, as they say that the blank rune was created by Ralph Blum, which is what I said. Even the block of text that you chose to quote on the thread goes against your claim.
The last link you posted doesn't qualify as a reference since it simply states "there is some evidence" but does not mention what any of that evidence is, or reference to a credible source for that evidence. Simply saying "there is evidence" does not demonstrate anything."Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"Comment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=TaiganPagan link=topic=92.msg6248#msg6248 date=1287898990]
The blank rune has been around for at least 400 years... that's where the records ends, with my ancestor from Louisiana.
It's possible that the blank rune was there during Norman/Celtic occupation of England, but there are no oral or textual confirmation of this, except for certainty that the blank rune is Anglo-Saxon of origin.
[/quote]
What are these records of which you speak? I'm sure several runologists would love to validate it. Without said proof, I'm sticking with my original idea that Blum, when given a bag full of runes, mistook the spare (i.e., an extra tile left blank so that someone could carve whatever rune into it after one had been lost) as something different. He mistakenly believed that this "blank rune" had some deeper meaning.
On a side note, I don't believe that quizzes and games are appropriate fare for the Heathen Q&A thread..."The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain
"There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek sayingComment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
IIRC from looking at runic inscriptions they don't use spaces to separate words - either they don't bother and the reader has to suss it out or they use a dot.
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You can find some of my creative writing at http://libbyscribbles.comComment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=Maythe link=topic=92.msg6517#msg6517 date=1287986861]
IIRC from looking at runic inscriptions they don't use spaces to separate words - either they don't bother and the reader has to suss it out or they use a dot.
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Aye. In all of the stelae that I've seen, there were no spaces. In most all of them, a dot seems to have been used to separate sentences or (what appears to be less commonly) words, while two dots that resemble a colon are used to indicate the beginning of a new line. In fact, what makes the blank rune a bit ironic in my eyes is that all of the people that created the stelae seem to have had a little bit of horror vacui going on; there are very few blank spaces on the runestones, almost every inch is crammed with some kind of symbol, writing, picture, or some other design."Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
-Thomas Jefferson
Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
(blank rune)
Until we can find what happened with the runes between the 8th and 16th century.... we will have no satisfying answer!
The dark age of Christianity has lobotomize a lot of the culture. All we do, is to find the fragments, and extrapolate from them.
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=TaiganPagan link=topic=92.msg6543#msg6543 date=1287998126]
(blank rune)
Until we can find what happened with the runes between the 8th and 16th century.... we will have no satisfying answer!
The dark age of Christianity has lobotomize a lot of the culture. All we do, is to find the fragments, and extrapolate from them.
[/quote]
No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't have anything to do with anything.
a) just because you don't know what happened with the Runes between the 8th and 16th centuries does not mean that you can assume that Ralph Blum's abomination was used back then.
b) Who really cares what the people who lived more than 700 years after the Christianization of Northern Europe did, when it comes to recreating Heathen practices? I prefer to look at what Heathens did, personally."Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"Comment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
[quote author=Thjoth link=topic=483.msg6520#msg6520 date=1287989080]
all of the people that created the stelae seem to have had a little bit of horror vacui going on
[/quote]Lol. Maybe you have a point... the anglo-saxon texts in untranscribed form are painful! Rammed tight on the page. They have a whopping great illuminated letter at the start of the page, otherwise I'd have assumed it was to do with the massive cost of parchment.
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You can find some of my creative writing at http://libbyscribbles.comComment
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
I use the runes regularly for divination and I don't believe that the blank rune was ever intended to be a part of the futhorc/futhark. Given the fact that none of the rune poems mention it - I think their would have been some sort of reference, even a cryptic one, had the blank rune been intended to be considered.
Slightly off topic, there is a very oblique reference in the Anglo Saxon Rune poem to runes being used in divination... but basically this is very much down to interpretation and translation, although personally I tend to favour it. However, I can well understand if others don't.
Back to the original topic - as an experiment, I once included a blank rune in my set for several months... and it was never ever drawn by anyone. Not even once. I feel that was more or less telling me not to bother!
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Re: The Blank Rune Debate (split from Q&A)
From what I've come to understand, the blank rune did originate with Blum. And personally, a blank rune has never made much sense to me - what's the point of having a blank answer in divination?Comment
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