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    Debate Vanatru

    A thread was started on Vanatru it was a Q&A thread, like all questions there are answers that need explaining, and that leads to debate, quite rightly It was indicated that if I want to debate it, I should start my own thread.

    Where is the evidence for the Vanir?

    It was posted that the Vanir are the only other divine group, I would argue Vanir was probably another tribe, or even Freyja's fallen, or nothing at all. Having a UPG is not evidence, why not just accept there are somethings we do not know. But we should also accept when people know better, hope to have my opinion altered by a good debate.

    Simek wrote something in the RMN;



    Simek's piece is from page 10 - 19 and discusses the Vanir and Snorri. Well worth a read.

    ---------- Post added at 12:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------

    Gunnarr Sandisson
    "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." Albert Einstein
    Five Boroughs Hearth

    #2
    Re: Debate Vanatru

    Ok, then, the Vanir are the only other acknowledged "tribe", "group", "culture" or "divinity" within the Eddas.

    Again, there are only a handful of gods that fight and die at Ragnarok. Freyr is one because he was born into the Aesir, but Njord is nowhere to be found. Quite possibly, according to theory, his rank as hostage ends at the demise of the Aesir "empire" and he returns to his tribe, group, culture. Where the other gods have gone that aren't present isn't made clear, but since the only other hierarchy we know of is the Vanir, and with evidence of Njord's absence from battle, it wouldn't be entirely pointless to consider that the other absent gods retreat to the same group, qualifying them as Vanir as well.
    Last edited by Wednesday; 28 Apr 2012, 10:49. Reason: clarity

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      #3
      Re: Debate Vanatru

      Originally posted by Wednesday View Post
      Again, there are only a handful of gods that fight and die at Ragnarok. Freyr is one because he was born into the Aesir, but Njord is nowhere to be found. Quite possibly, according to theory, his rank as hostage ends at the demise of the Aesir "empire" and he returns to his tribe, group, culture. Where the other gods have gone that aren't present isn't made clear, but since the only other hierarchy we know of is the Vanir, and with evidence of Njord's absence from battle, it wouldn't be entirely pointless to consider that the other absent gods retreat to the same group, qualifying them as Vanir as well.
      I've always found it odd that Njord leaves at Ragnarok. It's definitely like he sees his "contractual obligations" to Odin and company have been fulfilled, so to speak, so there's no reason for him to remain.
      As for Simek's article, I've read it, and it's interesting, but it seems rather implausible that Snorri could have just made up another tribe out of thin air:

      Snorri: So, there are these two tribes, the Aesir and the Vanir, and the Aesir are the city gods and the Vanir are the farming gods, and there's this big war between them, right? But they all decide to make peace and everyone's cool.
      Icelander: ....Snorri, what have you been smoking?

      There are actually critiques of that article in the works, but they're slow in coming because the newsletter doesn't print that often (academic process and all that). It's not nearly as open and shut as Linzie and co. paint it out to be, and we Vanatruar are still here, btw.

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        #4
        Re: Debate Vanatru

        I do not believe in Ragnarok, that should be another thread.

        I am interested in what references you are using for your post, In relation to Vanir in hierarchy, Njords hostage conditions, Njords abscence and Freyja's parentage.

        Taff
        Gunnarr Sandisson
        "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." Albert Einstein
        Five Boroughs Hearth

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          #5
          Re: Debate Vanatru

          Originally posted by Gunnarr View Post
          I do not believe in Ragnarok, that should be another thread.

          I am interested in what references you are using for your post, In relation to Vanir in hierarchy, Njords hostage conditions, Njords abscence and Freyja's parentage.

          Taff
          The Eddas. For example:

          "In Vanaheim the wise Powers (hierarchy) made him
          and gave him as hostage (conditions) to the gods;
          at the doom of men he will come back (absence from Rag.)
          home among the wise Vanir."

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            #6
            Re: Debate Vanatru

            I am sure Tacitus talks about the Vanir in Germania. If the Jutun are the wild, forest beings and the Aesir are the cultured, city gods wouldn't the in between farming community need some kind of representation? I don't see an Aesir god who controls the harvest in a way Freyr does. The Vanir are so wrapped up on the runes and Odin's knowledge of magic. Considering that some of the Vanir's behaviors are iffy I would think that they would have easily died out with Christianity. I could just be biased due to my focus on them.

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