Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

[JamesByrne]

Do you think its ok to charge people to teach them about neopaganism? Is it ok because it costs money to run courses maybe or is it taboo because somethings should be sacred?

The scandal of charging for neopagan lessons comes up fairly regularly this time of year, usually someone nobody knows starts charging for something they cant provide. It can be pretty severe like those shamans that died in a sweat lodge a few years ago... This years is less mad, an online site is offering initiation into a wicca through a group associated with Janet Farrar for the low price of 150 USD. The Alexandrian Wiccans are going mad about it here and needless to say Janet Farrar (a major figure in Eclectic witchcraft but also Alexandrian Wicca) has nothing to do with the paying for initiation thing.

The charlatan element aside I personally think its not ok to charge for neopaganism even if you are providing a service for 2 reasons. One to me some things are sacred and I feel strongly its in bad taste to put a monetary value on them and two if you can just buy something without really earning it what value does it really have? Like a diploma from some college where money comes before standards... having it on your cv is meaningless.

[Ementine]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I believe it is wrong too, you shouldn't charge someone to learn about something that is natural and beautiful like Wicca. It's not like it's hard to find information about, you can look it up online and when someone is trying to make money off of it they are going to force people to go to the lessons. It is against the Lord and Lady to force someone to learn about it, we aren't advised to teach people about it if they are not willing.

On top of that there are some people that are going to take it all the wrong way and use what they learn in a harmful way, which is horrible and will backfire on them.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Obviously there are a couple of issues here: firstly, whether it's right to charge for spiritual tuition. And secondly whether it's worth it.... as with all things there are charlatans about (I only have to look in my spam box to realise that!)

What about divination? Should we charge for that? I used to do rune readings and yes, I charged the minimum wage pro-rata. I explained that people were paying for my time and not the gift.

But what about books? Should authors charge for those?

[orchestrion]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I feel that anything spiritual or sacred should stand independantly of mundane economics and charging for lessons is really unsettling to me. Buying books and supplies is one thing, you're actively purchasing a product and I don't have a problem with that, but communal activities between people of a certain faith should not at all be focused on money. I saw a Lughnasadh festival going on near me that charges 60 USD for an adult to attend. Thats absurd! Most of it should be introspective or communal bonding and ritual or crafting with your own hands. Information transmitted from person to person shouldn't be charged for. It also seriously limits who can partake and that is the last thing a religion should do, especially a Pagan path. Personally down the line I really want to help guide younger Wiccans- for free. Because I love my path and want to share it with those who want to walk it with me. Shouldn't that be what giving lessons in religious instruction of any kind is about? The charlatan aspect aside.

EDIT: to clarify, I feel like it's the difference between paying for a Bible and hypothetically paying to go to church. Religious PRODUCTS are different than religious EXPERIENCES, and education should be personal and spiritual. I wasn't sure how clear I made that. :P

[Lokabrenna]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I used to be against "pay to pray", but now I'm starting to see the issue in a more nuanced way. Kenaz Filan has an excellent article on paying for spiritual services, which I encourage everyone to read: http://kenazfilan.blogspot.ca/2010/0...aying-for.html

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone who is presenting at a convention or teaching to expect some compensation for their time (not to mention the money they might need to spend on travel costs). There will always be charlatans who charge exorbitant amounts of money for services other people will offer for less than $50, but that's why it's important to use discernment and shop around for a price that fits your needs. What happened to James Arthur Ray is that he was charging thousands of dollars and appropriating a Native American ceremony that is usually offered for free (on top of being unsafe about it). I don't think we Pagans need to go down the path of "New Age gurus" who charge thousands of dollars for spiritual services, but even clergy need to eat.

I'm currently editing a devotional anthology to Freyja, and Hel yeah I'm charging for it! It's going to cost me $200 just to get a cover for the book, never mind postage to send out release forms, plus the price of an ISBN (and an additional fee if I want to sell the book on Amazon) plus gods know what else. One thing I don't charge for is tarot readings. Maybe if I was a professional reader I would, but I'm still a novice so all my readings are free.

[Jembru]

[Juniper]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Honestly, it depends on a few things. The two main reasons I can think of are what's being taught and where.

What: Information itself should be free and readily accessible. For instance, it's free to become a member of this forum, where we provide information for a wide array of religious and spiritual history, experiences and thoughts.

Where: If you're teaching out-doors, it will be easier to not have to pay. But if you are teaching a class indoors, then I think it's fair to pay a base fee. You're [the consumer of XYZ/INFO] essentially leasing space from someone. Rent is not free unless you have a hell of a cool land-lord/lady. The utilization of tools should also factor in. What if the teacher provides literature for you to take with you? Offers tools readily available to use during work-shops that may be included in the teachings or lessons? Obtaining said tools and/or creating literature costs time, effort and money to put together. So why not opt to charge a fee for the prep-work?

These teachers have to eat and sleep somewhere. What if your teacher traveled from across the country, or globe to get to your area to teach his or her wisdom? Someone has to pay for the trip.

Be advised that the above is strictly aimed at the legitimate teachers, not the plastic spiritualist that just wants your money for his or her bogus stories.
Even Pagan Forum offers certain perks for being a member who donates.

[Denarius]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Well, when ever I am troubled I ask myself "what would a crazy person say about this?" Just so I can put things into perspective.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Teaching requires an expenditure of time and energy. It's difficult to begrudge someone for wanting a return on the time and energy they sink into helping you learn. I'm not fond of all the groups offering teaching and am content to operate without formal instruction but there's a case to be made that if I sink extensive amounts of my finite time into a person that I shouldn't be dismissed out of hand for wanting payment.

[orchestrion]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I guess i do understand the arguments for wanting compensation. I've taught irish dance free of charge and helped make a couple students instructional videos and I just never was bothered by being asked to do these things and take time out of my own lessons to do that. But I was doing it for fun. If it's one's means of making a living it makes sense but I don't think expending time on something should inherently = compensation. You spend time on volunteer work and don't expect compensation because generally speaking you care about the cause you're devoting time to and that's enough.
I don't know. My experiences lend me a certain bias and I'm practically an infant so I don't have the most life experience. XD

[Medusa]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Question. For those Pagan peeps (the whole umbrella term): What do you think your ancestors charged for their services? I'm almost certain it wasn't free. Probably food or goods or favors were used as compensation.

[orchestrion]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Oh definitely, Medusa. Gallic druids during Julius Caesar's time were exempt from battle and taxes which was their payment for their spiritual services. But at the same time it's a very different world and I don't need a goose. ;P meaning, spiritual practices are seperate from career paths for most people now. We're also not living in solitude in the woods and memorizing all of out information to keep it from falling into the hands f our enemies.

[Medusa]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

Oh definitely, Medusa. Gallic druids during Julius Caesar's time were exempt from battle and taxes which was their payment for their spiritual services. But at the same time it's a very different world and I don't need a goose. ;P meaning, spiritual practices are seperate from career paths for most people now. We're also not living in solitude in the woods and memorizing all of out information to keep it from falling into the hands f our enemies.

You may not need a goose, but I bet you could use some extra cash. Maybe these people want to make a living at something they love doing. Maybe it's their calling. I dunno. Just don't turn into the Catholic church.

[orchestrion]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I think a lot of this is kind of generalized and hypothetical and varies by individual. Like, if that's really someone's reason, that's fine. But I feel that a lot of these online instruction things where you pay to be initiated sound either like a cult or a scam and I don't like either of those.

[Medusa]

Re: Do you think its right to charge to teach about neopaganism?

I think a lot of this is kind of generalized and hypothetical and varies by individual. Like, if that's really someone's reason, that's fine. But I feel that a lot of these online instruction things where you pay to be initiated sound either like a cult or a scam and I don't like either of those.

Oh I didn't know this was about on line stuff. I was just thinking of maybe someone like Mrs Penry and what she does. She's good and sincere. I think she should be compensated for what she does if she wanted it. Know what I mean? I'm not sure about on-line stuff. I guess you have to do your due diligence in these cases.