what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

[xxx200]

what do you mean by magick and sorcery? please give examples.

[Ophidia]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

I go by Unkle Al's definition:

Magic is the art of causing change to occur in conformity with the will.

As such, anything a person does to create change is magic - from baking a cake to using a remote control to change the channels on a t.v. It can also be gathering material from a person, making a doll from that material in their image and performing actions upon it or with it to encourage the person to act or behave in ways that conform to the poppet-crafter's ideals.

[xxx200]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

in a way the entire life of a person is magic. isn't it? but magic requires special training: ceremoney, ritual, herbal use etc. why magic will require special training if everything you do is magic?

[Juniper]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

Not everyone thinks that magic requires special training. I don't. Certain ceremonies require special training, but not magic in general.
IMO at least.

[Ophidia]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

I'm with Eisheth on this one. Magic really doesn't require special training. Pretty much anyone can pick up a book on spellcraft & figure out what a spell is. Some people are more natural when it comes to the spells they do, other people like the fancy robes, pretty altars & elaborate tools. It's the intention behind the action that makes magic - and like any craft, practice (not training) is how you get better at it.

[xxx200]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

well. this is valid only about spellcraft. what about crystal gazing, divination, tarot card reading, geomancy, shamanism etc. are all these things mentioned above and things like them don't require any training? are they showing up spontaneously in everybody?

[Jembru]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

I'm with Perz on this one. I believe that anything from taking a shower when I wish to change my greasy nest into nice clean locks, to lighting a candle and saying special words, are acts of magic. I am studying so that one day I can earn more in my field of work.. that's a money spell! Maybe my diploma will help me get a better job or maybe it won't work. Either way, I've a better chance with the diploma so the work, as boring as essay writing is, is worth it. In the same way, the more commonly thought of spells, those of candles and herbs, also may not work, but like my diploma, I believe the odds of my desired outcome occurring, are greatly increased when I cast such a spell, so again, in my mind it is worth the effort!

What all these things do.. learning skills, casting spells, is give us a greater sense of control over our lives. That we are responsible for ourselves and that although we can't avoid terrible things from happening to use and those we love, we're not entirely the victims of fate.

[MaskedOne]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

Magic: reality in general, if compelled I will track down a Yoda quote or steal phrases from Riftwar novels.

Sorcery: a specific method manipulating magic/reality to get what you want.

The first doesn't require training because it isn't a skill. It functions with or without you. The second can require training or at least knowledge and focused effort.

[Ophidia]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

well. this is valid only about spellcraft. what about crystal gazing, divination, tarot card reading, geomancy, shamanism etc. are all these things mentioned above and things like them don't require any training? are they showing up spontaneously in everybody?

I think you're maybe getting a little confused, or trying to oversimplify things. For the most part, people don't suddenly break out in religion or spiritual/ritual/magical practices. Not everyone, or even all Pagans, believe that people are psychic or can see into the future or past or whatever. Not everyone believes in magic, or their definitions may be more Hollywood than realistic. I believe that everyone has the capability to sense things beyond what their five senses perceive and can affect things by using unorthodox methods.

In my way of seeing it, it's another ability that everyone has that can be honed and developed through practice. Generally, if someone isn't interested in magic or psychic abilities they aren't going to experiment with it. It's like, all people (barring physical deformity or major traumatic accident) can probably play football - but if you're not into football, you aren't going to try, and even if you are into football, not everyone is going to be great at it.

There are probably thousands of different things people have used to 'tell the future' - like gazing into crystal balls, reading sheep entrails, reading tea leaves or Tarot cards. I read Tarot cards, but I learned to do that through practice and reading books about Tarot cards and seeing how other people read them. It wasn't like I went to Tarot classes (which some community colleges even offer) or had a formal trainer or anything. I was interested in them, picked up a deck & started reading along w/the little instructional manual. Over the past 20 or so years, I've gotten pretty good at it, but I'm also a good cook for the same reason.

When you talk about shamanism in general, it's a religious or spiritual path/practice. Shamanism may include magical or spellwork, or various techniques used to communicate with the spiritual world. Shamanism can also describe an entire culture's cosmology - their Gods, local spirits, taboos, creation/origin myths, cultural memes, morals, ethics, laws, etc.

[anunitu]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

Generally ritual is not for the Gods or Goddess or spirits we wish to contact,it is more for ourselves. Humans tend to NEED some solid image to place their trust and strength to. A person that knows Martial Arts "May" consider object lessons to aid in their ability's,but mainly the ritual training is to learn repetition and gain muscle memory. I think magic ritual has the same function,but is not really needed to "Create" a magic effect. Most all religious groups use ritual as something to please their followers,and to make them dependent on the main body of the group for "Learning" and becoming nothing more than a "Follower"

- - - Updated - - -

Thinking about "Organized religious groups" if you really study their methods it begins to look like a "Long Con" followers are required to "Trust" that their leaders have "Knowledge" that they alone can understand. This is why "Dogma" is such a large part of these groups. I tend to "Think out of the box" when it comes to these things. I do study religions more in the context of why they are needed,and what methods are used to keep their followers in line. Mystical practice need not be always seen as "Secret" if you put them through a test of what they are capable of,and how they can be used in a practical way. Most religious leaders don't want you to understand the inner workings because if you did,you would not need the "Leaders" to progress in your understanding of your "Craft" One reason I tend to be a lone practitioner in my search for meaning to the ideas of Magic.

[xxx200]

Re: what do you mean by magick and sorcery?

well lets consider other definitions of magick.

king solomon in his grimoire : greater and lesser keys of solomon shows that magick is mainly working with good and bad spirits and performing wonderful act with the help of spirits.

agrippa in his first book on natural magick shows us that magick is the art of doing wonderful things with the help of natural things like herbs, stones, fums etc.

now if we compare the above two definitions with modern definition of magick which is the act of causing change according to someone's will or desire and everyone has capability of doing magick , we got the following:


the probability that spirits and natural things can do wonderful supernatural acts is more than probability that human being can do wonderful supernatural acts. in the words of mathmatics:


P( spirits and natual things) > P(human beings)

it is so because in reality we cannot see a human being do wonderful acts like causing a storm to appear or seeing future events like TV screen or turning sticks to snake or parting the water of the red sea with humanly power.but spirits and other superhuman creature can easily cause a storm to appear or turn sticks into snake or part the water of the sea or do any other wonderful superhuman things.

so if we respect reason, we should accept solomon and agrippa's definition of magick. Dr. john dee too supports this definition. in his book " the book of old spirit" he talked about old spirits.