Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

[westwoden]

I've started reading some Crowley, seems interesting enough but not sure I buy all his religious ideas - aren't they just counter-Christian?

any fans here, and is it worth getting into?

drunken, promiscuous, drug addled, aristocratic intellectual - what else?

[thalassa]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

Both.

Being made up doesn't keep something from being "real" and, from a historical perspective, you really can't fairly judge Crowley (or anyone else) without understanding the world they lived in and their direct influences and their personal motivations. He comes from a really different world than we do...to judge him by modern standards is to miss both the brilliance and the hubris. And sometimes they are one and the same.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

I've started reading some Crowley, seems interesting enough but not sure I buy all his religious ideas - aren't they just counter-Christian?

Kinda, kinda not. He was a product, and reaction to, the morality and society of his times. Likewise, the counter-Christian elements of his occult system is a little bit balanced by the strongly Judaeo-Christian heritage of the Western Occult tradition as a whole. It's always had kind of a mix of Christian, or at least Jewish-Hellenic, mysticism and very heterodox (to Christianity) beliefs and ideas. It's always been very eclectic, despite the stern traditionalism and ceremonialism.

[Medusa]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

I don't trust drug addicts.

[thalassa]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

I don't trust drug addicts.

I drink a giant triple caff mocha every morning, just to make it thru the day.

[Medusa]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

I drink a giant triple caff mocha every morning, just to make it thru the day.

*writes your name in my little black book.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

Crowley was well, human. I don't think anyone here with any perspective on god and magic or well anything can say that they are perfect. I think it is the same with Crowley. He was a man who was largely a product of his time. He has a number of insightful things to say though, and his opinions probably should not be totally dismissed out of hand. but keep in mind that things which were accepted as historical fact back then, are considered entirely bunk now, so many of these things will color both our opinions and his...

[Ophidia]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

There is power in both disciplined asceticism and in unabashed hedonism, and Crowley had no fear of either. People seem to focus on the hype and completely overlook both his poetry and his sense of humor. The man could write beautifully, but everything he wrote was done with a sly wink, a nudge of the ribs, and a raised eyebrow. And he's influenced so much - from the little Wiccan Rede to the Charge of the Goddess.

Of course, he also wrote a very long poem dedicated to a woman having sex with a dog...

[westwoden]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

surely a woman having sex with a dog is against the Order of Nature?

Wiccan Rede? - how can we ascribe that to Crowley - not exactly rocket science, and I'm sure even the Cavemen had similar sayings

still, I've a few more articles of his to read.

[Ophidia]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

Wicca is a young religion. The published Wiccan Rede, by Doreen Valiente, was first seen in the early 1960s. Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law was published sometime around 1900. Valiente sort of stapled the 'harm none' rider onto Crowley's 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'. But, Crowley had the influences of people like Israel Regardie, S. L. Mathers, W. Somerset Maugham, W. B. Yeats... so he probably didn't get all of his ideas from thin air, either.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

The thing that bothers me about Crowley is that he didn't push or include any musical tradition or chant at all, from what I've seen. Surely someone as learned as Crowley would have known that chanting can induce altered States of conscious and greatly increases memorization.

The Gnostic Mass would be so much more otherworldly with chant.

[Ophidia]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

The thing that bothers me about Crowley is that he didn't push or include any musical tradition or chant at all, from what I've seen. Surely someone as learned as Crowley would have known that chanting can induce altered States of conscious and greatly increases memorization.

The Gnostic Mass would be so much more otherworldly with chant.

Huh. I never even thought that much about it. Ceremonial magic, the Golden Dawn, OTO, all of them really don't have any music involved. Weird.

I know there's a lot of emphasis on properly 'vibrating' the names of the various angels in the Golden Dawn tradition, but I don't know if that came from Crowley or the other people in there. Crowley did practice yoga, so he probably had some familiarity with mantras.

[Medusa]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

All of us who eye Crowley suspiciously know the truth. Satanism teaches that you create yourself to the world. We know, under it all, you are just another dude who wants to be famous.

[westwoden]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

so you're not a fan of Crowley then, I take it?

[Medusa]

Re: Aleister Crowley - real deal or just made-up gibberish?

so you're not a fan of Crowley then, I take it?

As a Satanist, you would think I am. But there are quite a few of us who just take it for what it is. Though I do have his Deck of Thoth tarot cards. He was a racist, drug addled misogynist. So..me no gusta.