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    #1

    DEBATE! (super)hero vs mythic hero

    so...it seems there is a dust-up in the the Pagan blogosphere...

    50484909_400x400.jpg

    Someone or someones (either in good fun, because religion should be fun, or in all seriousness, because religion should be serious) dared to announce that they do their Paganism with a light side of fiction....and (horror of horrors according to the reactions of some!!! youdathunk they done pee in the holy water!!) dun dun dun...worship superheros (or somehow incorporate or have been inspired by them or other fiction into their personal practices).

    So, of course...Some FOLKS ARE UP IN ARMS!!! How DARE you namby pamby superhero worshippers be MOCKING our legitimate belief in REAL mythic heroes with your FICTIONAL REVERENCE!!! And, as with any furious dichotomy....there are also some in the middle with a good ole "WTF peeps".

    (we've had some variations of similar debate here)

    And never mind that its been going on for awhile now.

    Whats your take on doing religion with fictional representations?
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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    #2
    Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

    I don't have time to read all those links at the moment, but I think everyone on the board knows my stance on it, already.

    Kushiel.


    Mostly art.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

      Lol, I thought of you and Rafe when I first started reading all that crap...

      I was like, WTF?!?!

      I mean hell, I'm a agnostic-leaning pantheistic soft-polytheist...so I think mythic hero god is just as likely to be fictional as Superman. I just also think (as the hubby put it) "if I want to worship my troll doll splinky, thats my own damn business and you're an ass without much faith if you think it insults your relationship with your god".

      I haven't decided if I want to blog about it or not (I love to add fuel to the fire), so I decided to put it up for debate here instead!
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
      sigpic

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        #4
        Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

        I don't normally call up fictional powers unless I'm feeling truly Chaotic. Under those conditions, I'm still looking for an excuse to summon Bugs Bunny against a problem...
        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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          #5
          Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          Lol, I thought of you and Rafe when I first started reading all that crap...

          I was like, WTF?!?!

          I mean hell, I'm a agnostic-leaning pantheistic soft-polytheist...so I think mythic hero god is just as likely to be fictional as Superman. I just also think (as the hubby put it) "if I want to worship my troll doll splinky, thats my own damn business and you're an ass without much faith if you think it insults your relationship with your god".

          I haven't decided if I want to blog about it or not (I love to add fuel to the fire), so I decided to put it up for debate here instead!
          Haha, yeah! I even have an epithet to Namaah tattooed to my bust! ("This is how we pray" is the tattoo, which follows the sentence "we who are servants of Namaah.")


          Mostly art.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

            Lol!!

            ...the follow up to The Hubby's rant went something like this: "damn it, I thought I escaped this crap when I left Catholicism...its not your freaking place to question the sincerity of my beliefs. You aren't the Pagan Pope. And why the heck am I defending someone that wants to worship Tony Stark anyhow? This whole debate just makes me pissed off at everyone. Shut up, you all look stupid, arguing over your imaginary friends like that!"


            You should see him all het up over stupidity...its hilarious. Oh, and I bleached his hair and made the tips blue!



            ETA: OOH!! Maybe I will blog about it...as another interview with him!

            That would be fecking hilarious!
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

            Comment

              #7
              Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

              Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
              Haha, yeah! I even have an epithet to Namaah tattooed to my bust! ("This is how we pray" is the tattoo, which follows the sentence "we who are servants of Namaah.")
              I love that so much! That series was amazing and made me actually tune my vision of the Goddess to one of Namaah because the religion just made so much sense!

              - - - Updated - - -

              Also I think it's very close minded of people to freak out about what another person believes. Our beliefs are our own personal thing and just because one person's differs from the other does not mean that the other person should feel their own beliefs are challenged in any way.
              I have a Christian friend who thinks of Christ in the Buddy Christ sense, they said that praying with him in mind is more like talking to a friend and the version of him all nailed on the cross freaks them out.

              To each their own I say.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                I've never had a problem with the Alan Moore concept of religion, which is that because our lives are stories, if we worship that which is a personification of the stories that matter to us, we are worshiping something real. Alan Moore is notable for intentionally worshiping a God that was a sock puppet, out of the point that it doesn't matter the God was a sock puppet, it matters that it matters to him, and that he got meaning out of it. The story was what mattered, and the creation of it.

                Obviously while I see the story of Jesus as being a real legitimate thing, much of the bible is equivalent to stories to me; its stuff that not only couldn't happen, but didn't. But it did- within the hearts and minds of those who believe it, and that makes those stories important, and the heroes in them matter. It makes the stories real.

                So, obviously this isn't a Pagan perspective, but it's interesting to me that wherever I go, whatever religion, I'll find people hidebound by the past in a way that blinds them to the nature of what they are doing. If you believe that a God is a personification of an ideal, for instance, than I see no reason why you can't choose a personification of your choosing. After all, no two people's perceptions of any quote-un-quote legitimate deity are going to be 100% alike anyways-- but lots of people would like to think that they are.

                And if the Gods of old are real, or if they are all tiny reflections on a shattered mirror of some larger entity, then what we create is just another reflection, another image, another connection.

                Also, on a lighter note, I like to imagine Thor getting himself in the comics with his name on it, and soaking in the adoration on a beach some where. Times change, perceptions of dietaries change, and so do gods and God and Goddesses. Its just strange to see what should be a very DIY religion (at least as far as I've been told about it) have people begin to press their ideals of correctness on the world. How odd.
                hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

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                  #9
                  Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                  At the end of the day, I think it's all stories anyhow. So why is one person's story better than anothers? Just because Zeus has been around longer than Spiderman doesn't really make him any more legitimate.

                  If worshipping the Silver Surfer, Tony Stark, or Namaah makes you a better human being, then by all means. Go. Create shrines. Worship. Pray. Love. Be human.


                  Mostly art.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                    Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
                    At the end of the day, I think it's all stories anyhow. So why is one person's story better than anothers? Just because Zeus has been around longer than Spiderman doesn't really make him any more legitimate.

                    If worshipping the Silver Surfer, Tony Stark, or Namaah makes you a better human being, then by all means. Go. Create shrines. Worship. Pray. Love. Be human.
                    Just.... Yes. What you said. This. I agree.
                    hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                      Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
                      If worshipping the Silver Surfer, Tony Stark, or Namaah makes you a better human being, then by all means. Go. Create shrines. Worship. Pray. Love. Be human. Deliver MaskedOne his tribute in sanity and pizza...
                      slight modification.



                      otherwise, long as you're a decent person, I have greater concerns than whether you call upon Marvel heroes.
                      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                        slight modification.



                        otherwise, long as you're a decent person, I have greater concerns than whether you call upon Marvel heroes.
                        What's funny is, the original sentence was:

                        "If worshipping the Silver Surfer, Tony Stark, Namaah, or our resident eldritch horror makes you a better human being, then by all means..."

                        And I didn't want to stoke your ego, so I took it out, lol.


                        Mostly art.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                          cultists?

                          YES!!!!

                          I approve of this plan!
                          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                            It was only a matter of time before superheroes began to be worshiped as Gods and comic book cosmologies formed. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Ancient myths and legends often shaped the basis of modern superheroes.

                            Personally, I think the Christian Bible is largely fictional, along with the Q'ran, the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita, the Eddas, the Vedas, the Witches Bible Complete... Humans made all this stuff up, and we're still making stuff up as we go along. Some of it works, some of it doesn't work. What works for one person might not work for the next. I'm done judging the spirituality of other people (except for Christo-Wiccans and Scientologists... I'm still totally giving them the hairy eyeball).

                            I've been known to pray to El-ahrairah and the Black Rabbit of Inle from time to time, and if I want to practice the religion of made-up rabbits, that's my business :P
                            The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

                              Originally posted by perzephone View Post
                              It was only a matter of time before superheroes began to be worshiped as Gods and comic book cosmologies formed. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Ancient myths and legends often shaped the basis of modern superheroes.

                              Personally, I think the Christian Bible is largely fictional, along with the Q'ran, the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita, the Eddas, the Vedas, the Witches Bible Complete... Humans made all this stuff up, and we're still making stuff up as we go along. Some of it works, some of it doesn't work. What works for one person might not work for the next. I'm done judging the spirituality of other people (except for Christo-Wiccans and Scientologists... I'm still totally giving them the hairy eyeball).

                              I've been known to pray to El-ahrairah and the Black Rabbit of Inle from time to time, and if I want to practice the religion of made-up rabbits, that's my business :P
                              What bothers you about Christo-Wiccans?
                              Last edited by Malflick; 30 May 2013, 10:49. Reason: spelling error
                              hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

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