Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

[Malflick]

Okay, so this is a spinoff from another thread because I have a ton of questions and don't want to hijack it.

Mainly, who the heck are Silver Ravenwolf, DJ Conway and Edain McCoy, and why are they so despised?

I did a quick search, and mainly found lots of rants about how they are ruining Paganism, and how people don't like them, and some people who think they are the knees of the bees... But I'm still hurting on details here.

Who are they, and why to people groan when they are brought up? What do they teach? Are there stereotypes about their followers I should know about?

[Yorin]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

I actually rather enjoy Conway's books, but as for Ravenwolf....

I've read a few of her books. The basic thing that I can say of why she's so despised is that when you read her works, you can clearly tell she's just in it for the money and potential fame. She spins a romanticized tale of everything instead of actually wanting to teach you anything. Her followers that I've noticed are all the preteen girls (sometimes mid 20's) who grew up watching Charmed is the best way I can think to describe it.

[WinterTraditions]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

I have found solid information to be within Silver Ravenwolf books. Like Yorin, my main issue with her is the sprinkling of silly spells and teen-like content, as well as an obvious hate towards Christianity.

Silver's books I find are not for the beginner researcher. You have to pick through the excess words, but the good info is there.

[thalassa]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Honestly...I've had varied opinions on all three of them over the years (never great opinions, just varying from meh to OMGtheEVILZ). I cared more 10-7 years ago, npow I'm more 'meh'.

The problem with all three of them is that their material is often poorly researched, and plays to a certian segment of Pagans/persons interested in Pagans that "serious" Pagans like to term "fluffy". They are the big name Pagans that have made a commercialized, lightweight pablum sort of version of Paganism also happens to be financially successful, dubious in its accuracy, and really, if we are all totally honest..........no better or worse than any other number of authors.

Some of the stronger views of SRW: http://ecauldron.net/opedtarnishedsilver.php, http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/ravenwolf.shtml
Personally, I'm not a fan. Sure, she says some stuff thats not crap, but...you have to sift through the shit to find the sugar. You could find that in a better book, without as much work. Granted, I read SRW after having been Pagan for a decade...I started with Margot Adler's Drawing Down the Moon as my introduction to Paganism.

As for Edain McCoy...mainly, some people think she's selling a Wiccan-esque Celticish Paganism as an authentic Celtic religon (like this guy). Personally, I've never gotten that vibe--I'm quite clear on her books not being anywhere close to authentic. DJ Conway is pretty much in the same boat as McCoy (some criticism of her books: http://faeriekat.wordpress.com/2009/...-by-dj-conway/.

I do think though...there's been some Haterade bandwagon hopping...while certainly there are many better authors out there, there are actually also worse ones.

[Malflick]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

"If you are attracted to a religion for reasons other than its religious content, you are a poser. It's like saying you're a Christian because you like communion wine."

Well.... Man those are indeed some strong views. And at least from those extreme haters, I don't think I like her either. Though, who do you think are worse?

Also, I've seen quite a bit of grumbling about "fluffy Bunny" Pagans around these parts. I know what they are by now... But why exactly do people have a problem with them?

[WinterTraditions]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

"If you are attracted to a religion for reasons other than its religious content, you are a poser. It's like saying you're a Christian because you like communion wine."

Well.... Man those are indeed some strong views. And at least from those extreme haters, I don't think I like her either. Though, who do you think are worse?

Also, I've seen quite a bit of grumbling about "fluffy Bunny" Pagans around these parts. I know what they are by now... But why exactly do people have a problem with them?

They spread misinformation to other newbies, who then become Fluffies. "I can turn into a mermaid" "I am part vampire" "I can control fire with my mind" "I did this love spell and now I am the most loved person ever" ect.

Worst site I've seen for Fluffies is also one of the bigger "Pagan" sites. http://www.spellsofmagic.com/

There is no new content on there. Debating is not allowed. They have a section for "Fantasy" spells that members actually take seriously. The posts I've seen on there fit in one or all of these categories:

1. Bragging or attention stories

2. I am a *Insert fantasy creature* or I want to be a *Insert fantasy creature*

3. Reposting information from other sites for the hell of it, or plagiarizing.

It's sites like these coupled with Silver Ravenwolf that make others laugh at Paganism, and make Pagans dislike Wiccans (For assuming every Wiccan is like Silver, or worships her as the only great source of information)

EDIT: Here's a recent "Fluffy" that fits into category 2. http://www.spellsofmagic.com/read_post.html?post=550252

Yes, time-traveling. He can do it, apparently.

Werewolf Spell: http://www.spellsofmagic.com/spells/...4865/page.html

I have not visited this site in ages... It gives me both a headache and a good laugh.

[Malflick]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

They spread misinformation to other newbies, who then become Fluffies. "I can turn into a mermaid" "I am part vampire" "I can control fire with my mind" "I did this love spell and now I am the most loved person ever" ect.

Worst site I've seen for Fluffies is also one of the bigger "Pagan" sites. http://www.spellsofmagic.com/

There is no new content on there. Debating is not allowed. They have a section for "Fantasy" spells that members actually take seriously. The posts I've seen on there fit in one or all of these categories:

1. Bragging or attention stories

2. I am a *Insert fantasy creature* or I want to be a *Insert fantasy creature*

3. Reposting information from other sites for the hell of it, or plagiarizing.

It's sites like these coupled with Silver Ravenwolf that make others laugh at Paganism, and make Pagans dislike Wiccans (For assuming every Wiccan is like Silver, or worships her as the only great source of information)

...XD I am so glad I found this place first rather then there. Oh my God! "Werewolf Spell (Tested)" ... OH man this spell lets you time travel!

I.... Look I try to be accepting of people's beliefs but I just can't do this XD. My God, I mean, I am falling over laughing reading some of this stuff.... Here is a spell that summons a magical creature that will have real physical sex with you....

Okay. Wow. I get it now... Um... Thanks for explaining Winter Traditions! I... Honestly have no idea what to say. Frankly that website seems to be every bad stereotype I had about Neo-Pagans before my Girlfriend came out of the broom closet and showed me otherwise.

Just.... Damn. o_O

[Yorin]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

...XD I am so glad I found this place first rather then there. Oh my God! "Werewolf Spell (Tested)" ... OH man this spell lets you time travel!

I.... Look I try to be accepting of people's beliefs but I just can't do this XD. My God, I mean, I am falling over laughing reading some of this stuff.... Here is a spell that summons a magical creature that will have real physical sex with you....

Okay. Wow. I get it now... Um... Thanks for explaining Winter Traditions! I... Honestly have no idea what to say. Frankly that website seems to be every bad stereotype I had about Neo-Pagans before my Girlfriend came out of the broom closet and showed me otherwise.

Just.... Damn. o_O

yeaaaaaah, sites like that-and people who follow them tend to be a little.....yeah, I can't think of a nice description for them even being pagan myself.

[WinterTraditions]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

...XD I am so glad I found this place first rather then there. Oh my God! "Werewolf Spell (Tested)" ... OH man this spell lets you time travel!

I.... Look I try to be accepting of people's beliefs but I just can't do this XD. My God, I mean, I am falling over laughing reading some of this stuff.... Here is a spell that summons a magical creature that will have real physical sex with you....

Okay. Wow. I get it now... Um... Thanks for explaining Winter Traditions! I... Honestly have no idea what to say. Frankly that website seems to be every bad stereotype I had about Neo-Pagans before my Girlfriend came out of the broom closet and showed me otherwise.

Just.... Damn. o_O

Yup. If you ever want a laugh, just cruise through there. I'm pretty sure most of the members are underage (even though you have to be "13" to register....)

Oh God, can you imagine an adult posting a Vampire spell? xD

I'm dying

Glad I could help out? XDDD

[Malflick]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

yeaaaaaah, sites like that-and people who follow them tend to be a little.....yeah, I can't think of a nice description for them even being pagan myself.

Honestly they remind me a lot of the kind of Christians who believe that if they just believe hard enough God will literally do anything for them. The kind who won't take someone to the hospital when they are sick because their faith will save them... Or who are waiting for God to "send them" their spouse, who will be perfect, and preferably a youth pastor who can serenade you with Christian pop music on his guitar.

These people are silly. If praying to God made broken bones reform or gave you those new shoes you wanted, or if magic let you turn into a werewolf or time travel, there would be a lot more religious people in the world.

Yeah....

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Yup. If you ever want a laugh, just cruise through there. I'm pretty sure most of the members are underage (even though you have to be "13" to register....)

Oh God, can you imagine an adult posting a Vampire spell? xD

I'm dying

Glad I could help out? XDDD

About as soon as I saw there was a "condom spell" I just had to close the tabs out of respect for my own remaining faith in humanity. Thank you for your assistance lol.....

[WinterTraditions]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

Honestly they remind me a lot of the kind of Christians who believe that if they just believe hard enough God will literally do anything for them. The kind who won't take someone to the hospital when they are sick because their faith will save them... Or who are waiting for God to "send them" their spouse, who will be perfect, and preferably a youth pastor who can serenade you with Christian pop music on his guitar.

These people are silly. If praying to God made broken bones reform or gave you those new shoes you wanted, or if magic let you turn into a werewolf or time travel, there would be a lot more religious people in the world.

Yeah....

Its because of these fluffies and some "Wiccan" authors that I am almost ashamed to call myself Wiccan. Honestly, this is the only site where I specify what type of Pagan I am. On others, I simply say "Pagan".

I'm in a group that already gets a lot of hate, and then I decided to sprinkle on "Oh, and I worship angels" and I nearly became the meal of this fanatic Pagan.

I seemed to have a knack for finding bad sites and bad company before finding this forum... It was scary.

[Yorin]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

urgh. I'm sorry but the Christians who try to "pray away the sickness" piss me off to no end. Being pagan, yes, I prefer homeopathic remedies over going and spending a crap ton of money at a doctors for something simple like a cold but if your kid has cancer and you think prayer is something that's going to fix it and refuse to get your kids seen, then you're a fucking moron. I was seriously glad when the parents of those children were charged with manslaughter for their stupidity.

(Obviously not directing this directly at YOU Malflick-just people who do that crap)

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

.. Also, I've seen quite a bit of grumbling about "fluffy Bunny" Pagans around these parts. I know what they are by now... But why exactly do people have a problem with them?

Just my own perspective but I think a lot of people have issues with supposed "fluffies" because of their unwillingness to seek deeper or be willing to grow. It's like one current fade with "Fluffies" is the all is love and light that has taken hold in many pagan folds and reflective of many New Age practitioners. Another aspect is the supposed belief that everyone follows or adheres to the Wiccan Rede for instance. Even to the point of recreating the ancient gods / goddesses in a kinder and gentler aspect which ignores all the darker aspects of their mythology and such. If not changing it then they make it an evil darkness and thereby make anyone who follows them as being equally bad or evil. So you end up for instance with an Hecate who loves everyone and would never do anything to harm or injure you on one hand and the satanic dark goddess on the other hand who is all about evil, corruption and causing pain and grief.

The notion of werewolves, vampires, otherkin, therionthropes, etc really does not make one a "Fluffy" by most accounts. Granted the notion or notions are not highly endorsed or accepted by many pagans but it's not the content itself that turns one off. Even the notion of becoming a werewolf is not that uncommon when one considers the depths of Shape-Shifting and Shift-Shaping which is pretty common in Hedge Witchcraft or many Shamanic type practices. But that crosses into a whole different topic I think.

It's like i've known people who equate any pagan who believes or retains the belief of "Satan" being the dark opponent to the Christian God and Jesus as being fluffy. It's a contradiction when out of one side of their mouths they say God or Jesus does not exist then turn around and suggest that all Satanist are followers of this dreaded anti-Christian being. If one can not exist in their world view then how can his counterpart exist and retain all the same Christian perspectives that been painted upon him.

I find most places tend to equate "Fluffy" upon those who will not change their perspective or attitude regardless of how much evidence one can produce to contradict their position. In that case it's more seen as an unwillingness to grow or change that makes them "Fluffy". Otherwise most consider them as uneducated or such who can grow and their perspective is due to not knowing not to being unwilling to change or grow.

[Malflick]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

urgh. I'm sorry but the Christians who try to "pray away the sickness" piss me off to no end. Being pagan, yes, I prefer homeopathic remedies over going and spending a crap ton of money at a doctors for something simple like a cold but if your kid has cancer and you think prayer is something that's going to fix it and refuse to get your kids seen, then you're a fucking moron. I was seriously glad when the parents of those children were charged with manslaughter for their stupidity.

(Obviously not directing this directly at YOU Malflick-just people who do that crap)

No offense taken. I think those Christians are dangerously and horribly misguided to the extreme. I don't disagree with you at all, frankly. However, in the same manner I can't condone someone who thinks casting a spell with a candle will prevent your sexual partner from getting pregnant or catching an STD... (source: THAT SITE)....

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Its because of these fluffies and some "Wiccan" authors that I am almost ashamed to call myself Wiccan. Honestly, this is the only site where I specify what type of Pagan I am. On others, I simply say "Pagan".

I'm in a group that already gets a lot of hate, and then I decided to sprinkle on "Oh, and I worship angels" and I nearly became the meal of this fanatic Pagan.

I seemed to have a knack for finding bad sites and bad company before finding this forum... It was scary.

I'm sorry you had such a hard time with that

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Just my own perspective but I think a lot of people have issues with supposed "fluffies" because of their unwillingness to seek deeper or be willing to grow. It's like one current fade with "Fluffies" is the all is love and light that has taken hold in many pagan folds and reflective of many New Age practitioners. Another aspect is the supposed belief that everyone follows or adheres to the Wiccan Rede for instance. Even to the point of recreating the ancient gods / goddesses in a kinder and gentler aspect which ignores all the darker aspects of their mythology and such. If not changing it then they make it an evil darkness and thereby make anyone who follows them as being equally bad or evil. So you end up for instance with an Hecate who loves everyone and would never do anything to harm or injure you on one hand and the satanic dark goddess on the other hand who is all about evil, corruption and causing pain and grief.

The notion of werewolves, vampires, otherkin, therionthropes, etc really does not make one a "Fluffy" by most accounts. Granted the notion or notions are not highly endorsed or accepted by many pagans but it's not the content itself that turns one off. Even the notion of becoming a werewolf is not that uncommon when one considers the depths of Shape-Shifting and Shift-Shaping which is pretty common in Hedge Witchcraft or many Shamanic type practices. But that crosses into a whole different topic I think.

It's like i've known people who equate any pagan who believes or retains the belief of "Satan" being the dark opponent to the Christian God and Jesus as being fluffy. It's a contradiction when out of one side of their mouths they say God or Jesus does not exist then turn around and suggest that all Satanist are followers of this dreaded anti-Christian being. If one can not exist in their world view then how can his counterpart exist and retain all the same Christian perspectives that been painted upon him.

I find most places tend to equate "Fluffy" upon those who will not change their perspective or attitude regardless of how much evidence one can produce to contradict their position. In that case it's more seen as an unwillingness to grow or change that makes them "Fluffy". Otherwise most consider them as uneducated or such who can grow and their perspective is due to not knowing not to being unwilling to change or grow.

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the very well reasoned reply!

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Tell me about Silver Ravenwolf?

They spread misinformation to other newbies, who then become Fluffies. "I can turn into a mermaid" "I am part vampire" "I can control fire with my mind" "I did this love spell and now I am the most loved person ever" ect.

I'd say not just misinformation but an unwillingness to consider anything else. The I am part Vampire, etc is very much a part of the Otherkin and Therion Community which has been around for a few years. Personally I do not believe it but then I admit I do believe in things that others would claim to be totally impossible or improbable.

Worst site I've seen for Fluffies is also one of the bigger "Pagan" sites. http://www.spellsofmagic.com/

I'd never heard of this site and after visiting it I'm glad I haven't.

2. I am a *Insert fantasy creature* or I want to be a *Insert fantasy creature*

I personally find this one due to the increase in the Otherkin and Therion community that has crossed into the pagan fold.

It's sites like these coupled with Silver Ravenwolf that make others laugh at Paganism, and make Pagans dislike Wiccans (For assuming every Wiccan is like Silver, or worships her as the only great source of information)

If I recall correctly Silver was not actually Wiccan but of another grouping. I know at one point she claimed to be part of the reclaimist group and at another point claimed to have been initiated and trained into an Alexandrian Coven which made her Black Forest I think it was. Yet people just assume she was Wiccan. Sort of like how The Spiral Dance is referenced by nearly every Wiccan group I've encountered but the person who wrote it is not Wiccan either but gets slapped with that title from assumption.

Werewolf Spell: http://www.spellsofmagic.com/spells/...4865/page.html

All I can say is to much Charmed. By the power of three so mote it be! as an activation part of the spell.

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.. I.... Look I try to be accepting of people's beliefs but I just can't do this XD. My God, I mean, I am falling over laughing reading some of this stuff.... Here is a spell that summons a magical creature that will have real physical sex with you....

That aspect is not really that strange if one considers the notion of daemonic / demonic creatures known as the Succubus and Inccubus which are found in many mythologies as well as Christianity. Granted it is more Elizabethan or Freudian in how society tends to view it today but as a night visitor it is still used quite a bit to explain erotic dreams or semi-vision like states of arousal. Not unlike the Night Hag who is still referenced in many ways as the source of night terrors where you awaken and are unable to move your body for some amount of time.