Who Is Loki Really?

[Riothamus12]

Recently I have been looking into the matter of Loki only to find to be as troublesome as the subject of my scholarly pursuits as he was for all manner of Gods and mortals in the Eddas. Tracing what the ancient Norsemen actually believed about this figure is difficult to say the least. I have heard many versions of the story of the mischievous one often declared the enemy of the Gods.

Here's what little I was able to discern:

He is in most if not all versions that I was able to find a jotun

He was not in fact the God of fire. In fact, he seems to have no particular area of dominion. Not even mischief.

He was blood brother of Odin, at least in the Eddas. However blood brother in this context does not mean relative. Instead, it refers to oath bound brotherhood. A fairly common practice in a number of cultures all over the world through much of human history.

There is a story of another bound giant though he is not exactly the same figure whose mythology may have played into it. It is not unknown for general groups such as the Celts, Greeks, and Egyptians for example to have somewhat different versions of the same mythology or subdivisions thereof with legends specific to the division of said group.

Snorri, the man who put together the prose Edda was a devout Christian and did tack on a few elements not originally in the Edda in the process of writing this. It is hypothesized by some that Loki as we know him may in fact be a corruption of the original text which Snorri altered so it would not clash with his Christian mindset more than tales of pagan Gods and heroes already did.

The etymology of his name continues to be a problem for modern linguists though some have theorized it comes from the word luka meaning close.

There does not seem to have ever been a cult of Loki.At least none that can be traced.

The origins of Loki even in the context of the mythology are still rather muddy.

The figure of his daughter Hel is even more ambiguous in many ways. This could be another thread entirely.

Findings end here.

I have been influenced by the heathen traditions certainly but I am not specifically of that path. Loki has always been a problematic figure to me since I had heard of him. At first he appears to be the norse "satan" if you will, but when you look closer, you realize how little anyone really knows about him. I am not ready to condemn Loki as an enemy of the holy ones for this reason. However I cannot embrace the worship thereof for the same reason. I was wondering if any Heathens/Asatruar/other such pagans could shed some light on the nature of Loki. What insights on Loki do you have that I do not?

[Wednesday]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

Recently I have been looking into the matter of Loki only to find to be as troublesome as the subject of my scholarly pursuits as he was for all manner of Gods and mortals in the Eddas. Tracing what the ancient Norsemen actually believed about this figure is difficult to say the least. I have heard many versions of the story of the mischievous one often declared the enemy of the Gods.

Here's what little I was able to discern:

He is in most if not all versions that I was able to find a jotun

He was not in fact the God of fire. In fact, he seems to have no particular area of dominion. Not even mischief.

He was blood brother of Odin, at least in the Eddas. However blood brother in this context does not mean relative. Instead, it refers to oath bound brotherhood. A fairly common practice in a number of cultures all over the world through much of human history.

There is a story of another bound giant though he is not exactly the same figure whose mythology may have played into it. It is not unknown for general groups such as the Celts, Greeks, and Egyptians for example to have somewhat different versions of the same mythology or subdivisions thereof with legends specific to the division of said group.

Snorri, the man who put together the prose Edda was a devout Christian and did tack on a few elements not originally in the Edda in the process of writing this. It is hypothesized by some that Loki as we know him may in fact be a corruption of the original text which Snorri altered so it would not clash with his Christian mindset more than tales of pagan Gods and heroes already did.

The etymology of his name continues to be a problem for modern linguists though some have theorized it comes from the word luka meaning close.

There does not seem to have ever been a cult of Loki.At least none that can be traced.

The origins of Loki even in the context of the mythology are still rather muddy.

The figure of his daughter Hel is even more ambiguous in many ways. This could be another thread entirely.

Findings end here.

I have been influenced by the heathen traditions certainly but I am not specifically of that path. Loki has always been a problematic figure to me since I had heard of him. At first he appears to be the norse "satan" if you will, but when you look closer, you realize how little anyone really knows about him. I am not ready to condemn Loki as an enemy of the holy ones for this reason. However I cannot embrace the worship thereof for the same reason. I was wondering if any Heathens/Asatruar/other such pagans could shed some light on the nature of Loki. What insights on Loki do you have that I do not?

You might like to read an article titled something like "Loki, the Ash Lad and the Vaettir". The author makes a good case for Loki as a common mischevious house sprite, as well as explaining the intended audience of the poetry and the dynamics of the Loki character in that context.

[lillywolf]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

although I do not know much about him, I think over thinking causes these things to become confusing and difficult to understand. I try to take it as I see it and I see him as the naughty side of everyone's personality, we all have it, and also the inner chaos we seem to deal with on a day to day basis. He also has high jealousy (which again we all have even if we do not admit it) so to me he deals with the "human emotions" in that sense.

That is just the inital feeling I got about him when I read about him xxx

[Riothamus12]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

You might like to read an article titled something like "Loki, the Ash Lad and the Vaettir". The author makes a good case for Loki as a common mischevious house sprite, as well as explaining the intended audience of the poetry and the dynamics of the Loki character in that context.

I recently looked the article up and thus far it seems rather promising This may be the link I was looking for. My personal spiritual beliefs are eclectic, however I prefer a reconstructionist point of view when examining individual paths. The problem is when you have something written down it is either so obscure one can hardly get their hands on it without the proper credentials and access to the archives of some university or museum somewhere or it is the most common stuff. It's always pleasing to find something more immediately accessible.

[Chessa]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

I would think of him as sort of neutral. He's not for or against anyome else, he's just there making problams because he can. And he has helped the gods. On the other hand, there is the matter of the Lokasenna, and he caused the death of Baldur.

[Optimistic discord]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

You might like to read an article titled something like "Loki, the Ash Lad and the Vaettir". The author makes a good case for Loki as a common mischevious house sprite, as well as explaining the intended audience of the poetry and the dynamics of the Loki character in that context.

I found some of the authors conclusions to be a bit of stretch given the extent of material referenced.
That said, I do believe that we can use late period texts to expand out understanding of the development of regional religion, but care needs to be taken to not lose sight of the context of those texts and stories.

I do think that Loki has an older origin, I also think his role is not just an opposite to Odin.
Where Odin represents the struggle against fate/destiny, Loki at times appears to be an agent of those forces. Not so much a figure of chaos but certainly a primordial character.
Every time Odin tries to out-wit destiny, Loki counters that effort.

[Heka]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

I agree with Chessa. I'm fairly new to the study of all this. But the way I see it, Loki causes trouble cos he can. Like kids at my school do. They know they can get away with it, they aren't *really* going to get in to trouble for it, maybe a scolding, but nothing long lasting. He has fun doing it, and why not do things that you consider fun?

[Dez]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

You might like to read an article titled something like "Loki, the Ash Lad and the Vaettir". The author makes a good case for Loki as a common mischevious house sprite, as well as explaining the intended audience of the poetry and the dynamics of the Loki character in that context.

Just found this in PDF form, for those interested: http://eldar-heide.net/Publikasjonar...20nettsida.pdf

Still need to read it, myself.

I've heard more then one person talk about folk magic tying him to the household hearth, though. Offering leftovers to him by burning them, throwing a child's lost teeth into the fire (something I find interesting considering his ship made of nail clippings in the Ragnarok legend, and making me wonder if he used to have more ties to similar "lost" things. Happy to see if I can hunt down references if requested, but a bit busy at the moment.

Something that is clearly obvious to me at least is that the title of "trickster", while often apt, is a modern thing. It seems to have more to do with Jungian archetypes then history. I think this is important to keep in mind, because while archetypes are important, you also don't want to loose what makes a particular figure special to the archetype.

Lastly, and pure 100% supposition on the part of myself and L; I think it's important to not underestimate the ties between Odin and Loki. For us at least, I've found that when dealing with one of the Vanir, it's important to figure out where on their path the version dealing with you is. Young Odin, before the loss of his eye, is a very different being then the Hanged One/Ruler of the Gallows, who is different from the Chooser of the Slain/Screamer/the One of Gaping Frenzy, who is different from the Seid practitioner, who is different from the Father of Balder/First Husband to Frigg....etc, etc. Not to mention roles like Grimnir, Yule-Father, or possibly Freya's missing spouse, Od. For him, if you chose to treat him as an entity rather then a concept, time functions differently from the way it does for us. Some of his many names lead me to believe that, particularly in his young, untried form, there were dramatic similarities that led to the two becoming blood brothers. Some of his many names seem to back that up. Shape God/Shapeshifter, Wise One/Concealer, Deceiver, Riddler. One might even argue from a more Jungian standpoint that the "young" version of Odin needed grounding and maturing to become the central deity (when before the Viking age Tyr or Frey was often the central god in various locations, based on the number of place-names, etc), and so the more "difficult" parts of his identity became a separate being in the myths.

Again, pure supposition...but the two at that stage, before going in different directions, are hard to tell apart in many people's UPG. As you can see, I obviously don't hold to a static idea of a form of the divine.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Who Is Loki Really?

I have been influenced by the heathen traditions certainly but I am not specifically of that path. Loki has always been a problematic figure to me since I had heard of him. At first he appears to be the norse "satan" if you will, but when you look closer, you realize how little anyone really knows about him. I am not ready to condemn Loki as an enemy of the holy ones for this reason. However I cannot embrace the worship thereof for the same reason. I was wondering if any Heathens/Asatruar/other such pagans could shed some light on the nature of Loki. What insights on Loki do you have that I do not?

I don't believe that Loki is the enemy of anyone (except perhaps Heimdall lol) Loki was counted one of the Aesir for quite sometime... he is integral to many adventures with both Odhinn and Thor. He was Asgardh's go-to guy and problem solver for a long time. He single handedly caused several major problems, but he fixed all of those and more. He gave the Aesir ways to go back on their word and break their promises more than once.

Many people think he's the enemy because he was instrumental in the death of Baldr. But Baldr was fated to die by the Nornir... and what the Nornir decree is what happens. Full stop. Frigg tried to prevent Baldr's wyrd despite knowing full well that she would fail. Frigg does some work for the Nornir from time to time, and so her efforts (while understandable as a mother) were a betrayal of sorts. Loki found a way to circumvent her workings. You could consider him an agent of the Nornir at that point... he wasn't necessarily acting out of malice.

Plus this is not even the event which earned him the wrath of the Aesir. They didn't invite him to a feast, which was the breaking of an oath on Odhinn's part. He told them what-for, pointed out their hypocrisy and dishonor and they didn't appreciate that. So they chased him down, murdered his sons and bound him in eternal torture. That really just doesn't seem right to me.

Loki is no benevolent fluff bunny, but neither is he a malicious evil entity. He is a Trickster and Adversary deity. He challenges authority and societal standards, creates problems and solves them with equal gusto, and forces us to face up to painful truths. His is an important role within the pantheon, and I don't feel that he deserves to be shunned from worship because of anything he has done. He is a tricky and dangerous deity to work with, and he is just as like to mess up your work than help it, but that's his nature and his function. He teaches hard lessons and breaks down our preconceived notions of ourselves and the world. He shows us that we are not the centre of the Universe and that sometimes it's just not about us and that there is a higher plan and a bigger picture.

I always smile when people call Loki the 'northern Satan', because that's actually more accurate than most people know. 'Ha Satan' is a title, not a name. It means 'Adversary' and is the title given to the Adversary deity in the Judeo-Christian pantheon. Technically, any Adversary deity is a 'satan'... but the satans are not evil or malicious. They are deities who challenge the leading 'authorities', challenge societal norms, show hard truths, break into the core of matters and shatter the bondage chains put upon us by dogma. Of course the leading authorities consider these deities to be 'evil enemies', but that's all a matter of perspective. In Demonolatry and Theistic Satanism, the satans are deities of enlightenment and freedom from dogmatic authority. Loki can be considered an Adversary deity, which puts him in the 'ha satan' group. lol