When Jesus confronted Satan

[Alienist]

In the bible there are a couple stories of where Jesus is basically bribed by Satan where if he were to worship Satan, the whole world would be his. He took Jesus up in the sky and offered him the world and rejected Satan's offer and he disappeared. Was this deity really Satan as in Lucifer, because "Satan" is a title right? Jesus was viewed as a human but divine. Supposedly he confronted Satan, but what is your take on it? Did he really confront him or is this a metaphor for something else?

[Tylluan Penry]

Firstly, it would help if you explained which stories and where they are found exactly. Obviously the New Testament but which books? And it is never - as far as I know, which is why I'd like a few references - expressly stated that either Lucifer or Satan was a deity. Because there is only one deity in the Old and New Testaments.
Jesus was not bribed because he never accepted any of the offers.
If you want to look into metaphors (and yes, there are analogies a-plenty in the New Testament) then at least start with a few references because each of the Gospels has a different history and ergo a different purpose.

[Ula]

I would say it's Matthew 4:1-11. It's about the three temptations of Christ.

[codesharp]

I think that one happened quite literally.

[Medusa]

I think that one happened quite literally.

Wait. Wut? Satan carried Jesus up to the sky?
Is the forum on crack tonight?:confused:

[thalassa]

Erm...I'm not sure than an attempt at bribing counds as a bribe. A temptation, perhaps (which is what the Chrisitian traditions refer to the Three Temptations as), but not a bribe. Bribe, when used in this manner, sort of implies an acceptance of said bribe. Maybe its splitting hairs, but...its like saying "Last summer, I drowned." No, really, you didn't...if you had drowned, you'd be dead.

With that being said, I think the third temption was Satan taking Jesus to the top of a mountain and showing him the world...not buzzing him around a la Superman. And, like most myths, no, I don't think its literally true. Its a mythic truth and depends on suspended disbelief. Its not really a metaphor (or, more accurately, an allegory) because the story doesn't represent something else. Its a myth, meant to illustrate the divinity of Jesus and his strength in the face of the Adversary.

[DON]

Satan is a formal title, not a name. The actual name of the accuser is not known to humans as far as I can tell. However, the title ha-Satan is generally associated with the fallen angel Lucifer, the morning star as he is the highest ranking entity amongst the fallen.

Yes, I believe that Jesus was literally tempted - on many occasions, and he almost took the deal too from what I can gather. This has some interesting ramifications.

We know that Satan has access to heaven so he has some strong legal rights even after the first great war. The fact that he could also repeatedly engage Jesus Christ without incident, whereas lower ranking ones fled from his presence suggests something unique about that title. Maybe a sort of ambassadorial title?

[Torey]

I am in agreement with Don in that Satan is a title, not a formal name. It is quite likely that the title may be applied to more than one being. However, I do not agree that the term "Lucifer" ever denoted a fallen angel.

Regardless, I do not believe in the divinity of Christ as the son of YHWH or as any aspect of YHWH incarnate. I believe that Jesus was a prophet, but I do believe that it is possible that he encountered Ha-Satan as the role of the entity is to test the faith of Humanity - quite fitting for how Ha-Satan is described in these stories.

[Alienist]

If Satan is a title, who did Jesus really encounter? Was it someone else who had the title? Did Jesus ever encounter Lucifer?

[Malflick]

If Satan is a title, who did Jesus really encounter? Was it someone else who had the title? Did Jesus ever encounter Lucifer?

If Satan is a title, he encountered some Angel who was a Satan at that point.

[Alienist]

So it was a Satan but not Lucifer? I wonder if Jesus ever did meet Lucifer, although in most Christian beliefs, people say Lucifer is a Satan? Was there any other fallen angel that was a Satan at the time? Could have been other demons like Asmodeus, or someone else?

[shebani]

If Satan is a title, who did Jesus really encounter? Was it someone else who had the title? Did Jesus ever encounter Lucifer?


If you look into that word lucifer, it meant phosphorus, 'light- bringer', describing the morning and evening star which are both the same thing- the planet Venus- Venus being visible right before the dawn, hence the - light bringer. If you look even further into it, it actually was 'Helel ben shahar'. 'Helel the son of Shahar'. Shahar being the Canaanite god of the dawn, paired with twin brother 'Shalem' (Salem) the god of dusk, said to be brothers, the sons of 'El. Hence your devil is the planet Venus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_(morning_star)

The Latin (http://www.paganforum.com/wiki/Latin) word lucifer, corresponding to Greek φωσφόρος, was used as a name for the morning star and thus.. appeared in the Vulgate (http://www.paganforum.com/wiki/Vulgate) translation of the Hebrew (http://www.paganforum.com/wiki/Hebrew_language) word הֵילֵל (helel) - meaning Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one

[Torey]

So it was a Satan but not Lucifer? I wonder if Jesus ever did meet Lucifer, although in most Christian beliefs, people say Lucifer is a Satan? Was there any other fallen angel that was a Satan at the time? Could have been other demons like Asmodeus, or someone else?

If Jesus did encounter a Satan, it could have been any number of beings - look to the Book of Enoch for the names of a few of the chiefs of the Grigori such as Semjaza, Penemue and Gadreel.

[Larix]

If Satan is a title, who did Jesus really encounter? Was it someone else who had the title? Did Jesus ever encounter Lucifer?

What Wiki says:


In Hasidic Judaism, the Kabbalah presents Satan as an agent of God whose function is to tempt one into sin, then turn around and accuse the sinner on high




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

[Pathway Machine]

In the bible there are a couple stories of where Jesus is basically bribed by Satan where if he were to worship Satan, the whole world would be his. He took Jesus up in the sky and offered him the world and rejected Satan's offer and he disappeared. Was this deity really Satan as in Lucifer, because "Satan" is a title right? Jesus was viewed as a human but divine. Supposedly he confronted Satan, but what is your take on it? Did he really confront him or is this a metaphor for something else?


Satan is a Hebrew word which means resister or adversary. So the word satan would apply to anyone who resists or acts as an adversary. The word first appears in scripture at Numbers 22:22 in application, not to a demonic angel, but to an angel sent by Jehovah to resist Balaam. Numbers 22:22, 23: "And the anger of God began to blaze because he was going; and Jehovah’s angel proceeded to station himself in the road to resist (Hebrew satan) him. And he was riding upon his she-ass, and two attendants of his were with him. And the ass got to see Jehovah’s angel stationed in the road with his drawn sword in his hand; and the ass tried to turn aside from the road that she might go into the field, but Balaam began to strike the ass in order to turn her aside to the road."
The angel who became known as Satan, the Hebrew word satan with the definite article ha, as in ha satan, was the most beautiful angel of all, and was sent to protect the newly created human couple in the garden of Eden. He became Satan (The resister) the Devil (deceiver) when he deceived Eve and in doing so resisted Jehovah's purpose for man.

The word Lucifer is a Latin term meaning "shining one." At Isaiah 14:12 KJV is the only appearance of the word. The Hebrew word translated later into the Latin (in the Latin Vulgate, for example) was hehlel, meaning "morning star" or "daystar." The Greek word phosphoros, meaning "bringer of dawn" (in the Septuagint, for example).

The funny thing about the word Lucifer is that it was never applied to Satan, but rather the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar as a representative of the Babylonian empire and it's kings. If you go back to Isaiah 14:3 this is clear. The term is used in a metaphorical sense for change. A new dawn. The daystar or morning star is the the last stars to rise on the eastern horizon at certain seasons and so, metaphorically applied to a new dawn. Nebuchadnezzar was the herald of a new dawn in the sense that he was going to take over the Davidic line of Kings. He would destroy Jerusalem and take into captivity and kill the last King in the line of David. There wouldn't be another King in that line until Jesus Christ, and he wouldn't sit on the throne.

The same term is used in application to Jesus as the herald of another new dawn. (2 Peter 1:19)

The event you are talking about is when Satan tempted Jesus with all of the kingdoms of man of all time. Note that Jesus didn't deny that Satan had the authority over these kingdoms of men to offer them to him. Satan is the god of the world. (Matthew 4:8, 9 / 2 Corinthians 4:4 / Revelation 12:9)