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    Switzerland

    So I'm more Swiss than anything. Next biggest percentage is Swedish. I've been wondering a lot whether there could have been any distant link in beliefs? The German and Norse gods are all the same dudes, essentially (Odin/Wotan etc) and one of my favourite legends is the Rhinesgold, set of course in Germany. But the Rhine starts in Switzerland. I'm assuming that there would've been trade etc up and down the river, and that beliefs and legends would've been shared along it's route, so maybe there is some links? I'm also fairly sure that Christianity/Catholicism came to Switzerland in around the 6th Century, so it was a long time ago that there was anything else, as Switzerland is fairly Catholic these days. My grandfather has traced his family back to the 14th Century, but that's not far enough. I intend to ask my grandmother if she knows anything, as she lived much more rurally than my grandfather and I imagine that there would have been more retention of 'pagan' beliefs in the country areas, but chances are there's not much left.

    Pretty much I'm wondering if there is any linkage between what we know about the Norse and Teutonics and Switzerland.

    Ta.
    ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

    RIP

    I have never been across the way
    Seen the desert and the birds
    You cut your hair short
    Like a shush to an insult
    The world had been yelling
    Since the day you were born
    Revolting with anger
    While it smiled like it was cute
    That everything was shit.

    - J. Wylder

    #2
    Re: Switzerland

    As far as I know, pre-Roman Switzerland was the home of Celtic people, who were displaced and slaughtered by the Romans as they expanded their Empire. I don't know of any link with the Norse.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Switzerland

      Hey thanks Do you know where you got that info from? I mean it makes sense as well as any other idea, Switzerland is at the centre of France, Germany and Italy after all. Parts of it could just as well have been worshiping Roman Deities too, I guess it all just depends on where the Alps get in the way. My family in German speaking though (not French or Italian) so I was assuming a connection to the German Deities.
      ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

      RIP

      I have never been across the way
      Seen the desert and the birds
      You cut your hair short
      Like a shush to an insult
      The world had been yelling
      Since the day you were born
      Revolting with anger
      While it smiled like it was cute
      That everything was shit.

      - J. Wylder

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Switzerland

        The Helvetii were the original inhabitants of Switzerland. They were a Celtic people that weren't destroyed by Roman expansionism. Instead, the Helvetians decided to move. Unfortunately for them the realestate they wanted was owned by the Sequani and other Friends of Rome. Julius Caesar, who was governor of Cisalpine Gaul at the time, was charged with defending the tribes. There was a quick and brutal campaign against the Helvetii by Caesar and a coalition of Gallic chiefs. In the end, the Helvetii were utterly destroyed. There warriors were killed or enslaved along with the rest of their tribe. (De Bello Gallico, Julius Caesar)

        Now with that said, later on Switzerland was ruled over by a confederation of Germanic tribes known as the Alemanni. There name is where the French, Spanish and Italian words for Germany come from. The Alemanni were in a constant state of war with the Western Roman Empire. Eventually they were invaded by the Goths on their trek through the Empire. However, both tribes were Germanic so the culture probably didn't change too terribly much except for the fact that the Goths were bringing Christianity along with death.

        So yes there is an obvious link between the Swiss and the Germanic tribes. But at the same time there was so much fluidity in that particular region because of migration and expansion that searching for pagan Germanic roots would be near impossible. You'd have a much easier time looking at your Swedish heritage.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Switzerland

          Well there were other people than the Helvetii living in what is today Switzerland, Rautaci and Allobroges just to name two, so it would depend on what part of the "country" your family came from. Plus migration and intermarriage were more common than people seem to realise so I have to agree with Claude that if you want to trace pagan roots, particularly taking into account that you'd have to go 1500+ back in time, going by your Swendish line is less likely to give you a headache
          Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

          An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

          "Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Switzerland

            She's not just looking for her pagan roots but her Germanic pagan roots. The Rautaci and Allobroges, like the Helvettii, were Celtic tribes. I only used the migration story to emphasize that fact that the region was fluid even in those days and that trying to trace any continental European nation back to its Germanic roots would be difficult. The only regions that are probably exceptions to this are Germany, Scandinavia and the United Kingdom. Those places saw more and longer Germanic occupation than anywhere else. Even the Norman invasion of England was one Germanic people conquering another.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Switzerland

              Thanks for the info guys. I pulled up some stuff about the Helvettii when I had a bit of a Google, but this explains it better. I get that searching out the Swedish roots would be easier, it's just that I'm closer, physically, to the Swiss ones, and am still planning to talk to my grandma about anything she may know, so I thought I'd ask about that first.

              I know where my grandfathers people were in the 1400's, as I said (a small town called Menznau, near Luzern), but with all the migration and everything you are talking about, that's not far enough back.

              I've been thinking how cool it would be to do one of those genetic test things, that find your roots, and I saw mention of one in an Australian Geographic magazine. What do people think of these?

              I will do more looking into the Swedish side eventually, it's just more difficult with that grandfather being dead, and my father knowing not much, and not being in contact with his family at all.
              ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

              RIP

              I have never been across the way
              Seen the desert and the birds
              You cut your hair short
              Like a shush to an insult
              The world had been yelling
              Since the day you were born
              Revolting with anger
              While it smiled like it was cute
              That everything was shit.

              - J. Wylder

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Switzerland

                Originally posted by Heka View Post
                Thanks for the info guys. I pulled up some stuff about the Helvettii when I had a bit of a Google, but this explains it better. I get that searching out the Swedish roots would be easier, it's just that I'm closer, physically, to the Swiss ones, and am still planning to talk to my grandma about anything she may know, so I thought I'd ask about that first.

                I know where my grandfathers people were in the 1400's, as I said (a small town called Menznau, near Luzern), but with all the migration and everything you are talking about, that's not far enough back.

                I've been thinking how cool it would be to do one of those genetic test things, that find your roots, and I saw mention of one in an Australian Geographic magazine. What do people think of these?

                I will do more looking into the Swedish side eventually, it's just more difficult with that grandfather being dead, and my father knowing not much, and not being in contact with his family at all.
                Read an article the other day that said that DNA tests on Otzi the "iceman" put his ethnicity as Corsican and Sicilian, so even in the Stone Age that area of Europe was a hodge-podge of travelers, traders and raiders from north and south, and all of these became settlers

                - - - Updated - - -

                As to genealogical records, it's rare (if not impossible) to find records back past about the 1200s, maybe late 1100s, because in most places written records simply didn't exist.
                I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

                Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
                Clan of my Clan
                Kin of my Kin
                Blood of my Blood



                For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Switzerland

                  Originally posted by Rick View Post
                  Read an article the other day that said that DNA tests on Otzi the "iceman" put his ethnicity as Corsican and Sicilian, so even in the Stone Age that area of Europe was a hodge-podge of travelers, traders and raiders from north and south, and all of these became settlers

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  As to genealogical records, it's rare (if not impossible) to find records back past about the 1200s, maybe late 1100s, because in most places written records simply didn't exist.
                  That's pretty cool actually, about Otzi. Clearly everyone was out Journey-ing. (This is actually the whole point of my favourite series Earth Children by Jean M. Auel. The main characters go on a 'Journey' and keep meeting other interesting people, like an Asian, and an African, in what is now France).

                  The genetic thing I've discovered is called 'Genographic'. I'm going to make a post about it directly.

                  And I was always impressed that my grandpa got as far back as the 1400's. I guess Switzerland was pretty good about records at that stage.
                  ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                  RIP

                  I have never been across the way
                  Seen the desert and the birds
                  You cut your hair short
                  Like a shush to an insult
                  The world had been yelling
                  Since the day you were born
                  Revolting with anger
                  While it smiled like it was cute
                  That everything was shit.

                  - J. Wylder

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Switzerland

                    The German-speaking part of Switzerland is an Alemannic country.

                    Myself I am also Alemannic.

                    And the Alemannic People are part of the Germanic people.

                    So in the beginning they all worshipped the same Germanic gods.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Originally posted by Claude View Post

                    Now with that said, later on Switzerland was ruled over by a confederation of Germanic tribes known as the Alemanni. There name is where the French, Spanish and Italian words for Germany come from.
                    Quite right!

                    And I happen to be one of those Alemannii - "Alemannen" in German.

                    And I still speak "alemannisch" as my mother tongue.

                    Comment

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