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    Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

    I read a little about Shinto, and I'm not sure, but I don't think it would mix too well with polytheism. I believe there are separate deities, possibly from different planes, while Shinto seems to teach that all divinity comes from nature. It's a very beautiful and spiritual religion, but I'm not sure if it's for me.
    What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

    #2
    Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

    Shinto has been combined with seemingly disparate traditions before, particularly Buddhism. In East Asia, the lines between religions often blur. The cognitive dissonance does not seem to bother practitioners as much as it does here in the West. Buddhism seems, at its core teachings, antithetical to some of the concepts in Confucianism, Shinto, Tibetan shamanism, and many other traditions, but the systems have mingled and influenced each other for centuries.

    Also, Shinto is a deeply ethnic religion. I mean, in a way all religions are tied up sociologically with a people, but some seem seem to have a more universalist approach or an easier time being adopted by others outside the original culture. Missionary religions like Christianity and Buddhism were much easier to adopt to other cultures whereas Shinto, for example, is extraordinarily rare outside of the Japanese. That might present a challenge but in the end, I do not see how it would be difficult to approach Shinto along with your current beliefs.

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      #3
      Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

      Originally posted by jcaternolo View Post
      I read a little about Shinto, and I'm not sure, but I don't think it would mix too well with polytheism. I believe there are separate deities, possibly from different planes, while Shinto seems to teach that all divinity comes from nature. It's a very beautiful and spiritual religion, but I'm not sure if it's for me.
      With Shinto, it's about a single divinity that manifests in numerous ways, very similar to some forms of Hinduism (and in some forms of Kemeticism). It can be approached from a polytheistic perspective.

      My recommendation would be to give it a shot. Adopt Shinto as your official religion for 6 - 12 months to see how you like it. Do your best to live how a "good" Shintoist should live, but don't beat yourself up if you're not perfect about it. Polytheism is less about doing and believing perfectly, and more about doing your absolute best.

      Good luck!
      Blog: http://thestarsafire.tumblr.com

      Kuchi wa wazawai no moto (the mouth is the origin of disasters)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

        Originally posted by Satu View Post
        With Shinto, it's about a single divinity that manifests in numerous ways, very similar to some forms of Hinduism (and in some forms of Kemeticism). It can be approached from a polytheistic perspective.

        My recommendation would be to give it a shot. Adopt Shinto as your official religion for 6 - 12 months to see how you like it. Do your best to live how a "good" Shintoist should live, but don't beat yourself up if you're not perfect about it. Polytheism is less about doing and believing perfectly, and more about doing your absolute best.

        Good luck!
        Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to do something entirely different anyways, but thanks all the same. I'm basically going to use chaos magick to help create an egregore, then give that egregore godhood. I believe that this is how all deities came to be (except they were developed without the use of chaos magick, they were made through faith and prayer alone, they just took longer).
        What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

          Originally posted by jcaternolo View Post
          Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to do something entirely different anyways, but thanks all the same. I'm basically going to use chaos magick to help create an egregore, then give that egregore godhood. I believe that this is how all deities came to be (except they were developed without the use of chaos magick, they were made through faith and prayer alone, they just took longer).

          In another thread, you said you *didn't* think deities came to be, in this manner.

          Sounds to me like you're fishing. Mixed pantheons, dogmas, including the above Shinto inquiry and, now, a Chaos magician...

          We can't tell you what to believe. We can't tell you what religion to belong to. What we CAN do is, maybe, help with ideas and places to do your research. After all, this is a community not a library.




          One more thing, I'd like to mention, is our S.A.F.E. Zone. Where judgement is far more reserved.

          I say this because, if I may be serious for a moment, the very first time I heard the word tulpa, it was regarding make believe - imaginary friends - in children's games. You can imagine my confusion, then, that "tulpa" was being used in a spiritual, or even religious context. I didn't know what the hell you were talking about - as in "okay, wtf is a tulpa?" I'm having the same issue, now, with egregor and memes.

          These two aspects (among other things) can, and most likely will, be addressed by some of our more critical thinkers, on-site. So, I suggest, maybe, you should look over that DMZ, for a little bit of suspension-in-criticism.




          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

          "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

          "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

          "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


          Comment


            #6
            Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

            Originally posted by ChainLightning View Post
            In another thread, you said you *didn't* think deities came to be, in this manner.

            Sounds to me like you're fishing. Mixed pantheons, dogmas, including the above Shinto inquiry and, now, a Chaos magician...

            We can't tell you what to believe. We can't tell you what religion to belong to. What we CAN do is, maybe, help with ideas and places to do your research. After all, this is a community not a library.




            One more thing, I'd like to mention, is our S.A.F.E. Zone. Where judgement is far more reserved.

            I say this because, if I may be serious for a moment, the very first time I heard the word tulpa, it was regarding make believe - imaginary friends - in children's games. You can imagine my confusion, then, that "tulpa" was being used in a spiritual, or even religious context. I didn't know what the hell you were talking about - as in "okay, wtf is a tulpa?" I'm having the same issue, now, with egregor and memes.

            These two aspects (among other things) can, and most likely will, be addressed by some of our more critical thinkers, on-site. So, I suggest, maybe, you should look over that DMZ, for a little bit of suspension-in-criticism.
            Tulpas are a very real, very spiritual phenomenon. Possibly even psychic (there are different theories, most of them involving metaphysics I think). The reason I mentioned cartoon characters is because I created a tulpa based off a cartoon character (mostly for aesthetic purposes, and I realize that my tulpa might turn out different from planned). Egregores are like tulpas, but other people can see them, but requires group belief. And if an egregore either gets enough worship/praise, gets served often enough, or becomes popular enough, it can graduate to a god form. Which requires prayer to help people, but can work with multiple people.

            Also, my belief about deities isn't really set in stone. I'm not sure how they came to be. I think that some used to be egregores, but not ruling out the possibility that some were naturally born deities as well. There's another theory I'm considering, that there are no distinct deities, but the universe itself is divine. Which explains why people of different faiths get prayers answered. Also, chaosites and tulpamancers use similar terminology, although they use some of it differently. Chaosites don't have a word for normal tulpas, who are sentient beings made of thoughts and psychic energy, and are linked specifically to the person who made them, and have no drawbacks. Tulpamancers believe in servitors, although their version is a non sentient tulpa that functions like a robot to perform specific tasks. Chaosites believe in servitors, but their version can be given a specific amount of intelligence. However, there's a possibility of them turning on their creators, either due to jealousy, no longer having a purpose, etc.
            What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

              Originally posted by jcaternolo View Post
              Tulpas are a very real, very spiritual phenomenon. Possibly even psychic (there are different theories, most of them involving metaphysics I think). The reason I mentioned cartoon characters is because I created a tulpa based off a cartoon character (mostly for aesthetic purposes, and I realize that my tulpa might turn out different from planned). Egregores are like tulpas, but other people can see them, but requires group belief. And if an egregore either gets enough worship/praise, gets served often enough, or becomes popular enough, it can graduate to a god form. Which requires prayer to help people, but can work with multiple people.

              Also, my belief about deities isn't really set in stone. I'm not sure how they came to be. I think that some used to be egregores, but not ruling out the possibility that some were naturally born deities as well. There's another theory I'm considering, that there are no distinct deities, but the universe itself is divine. Which explains why people of different faiths get prayers answered. Also, chaosites and tulpamancers use similar terminology, although they use some of it differently. Chaosites don't have a word for normal tulpas, who are sentient beings made of thoughts and psychic energy, and are linked specifically to the person who made them, and have no drawbacks. Tulpamancers believe in servitors, although their version is a non sentient tulpa that functions like a robot to perform specific tasks. Chaosites believe in servitors, but their version can be given a specific amount of intelligence. However, there's a possibility of them turning on their creators, either due to jealousy, no longer having a purpose, etc.


              Where are you getting all this from? Tulpamancers? Chaosites? The E on egregor? Have you got an extensive library? Can you give me some authors' names, to look this shit up? I've been around the Pagan and Neo-Pagan community for decades, now, and you're introducing all sorts of weird shit I've never heard of. I need sources. Lots and lots of sources.




              "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

              "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

              "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

              "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


              Comment


                #8
                Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                For anyone else confused as ChainLightning:

                For tulpas, start here: http://www.tulpa.info/, http://thelucidtulpamancer.tumblr.co...out-tulpas-and, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa, and http://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas.

                For egregores: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore, http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/sseg.php (multiple links available on this site, and http://www.kheperu.org/spirits/spirits6.html.

                Some stuff on chaos magic (with practitioners sometimes called "chaosites", looks like): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic, http://www.barbelith.com/cgi-bin/art...00000004.shtml.

                My impression (and I hope OP will correct me if I'm wrong) is that jcaternolo wants to create thoughtforms for whatever reasons, including, perhaps, a deity. The latter guess is taken from another thread, though. Tulpas and egregores are definitely subjects of interest if that's something you want to do.

                I'm going to be honest, OP. It sounds like you're trying to work in a system whose boundaries are always changing. That's, of course, OK, but since you're a newb, I strongly suggest setting aside some of this stuff for the time being and get experienced within the context of a structured system. Even eclectic Wicca is more structured than what you're doing right now.

                Note that I didn't say, "give it all up forever." Just, "give it up right now." Or at least don't let yourself get so deep. Someone more versed in non-heka magic will probably correct me, but the stuff you're doing is. . . pretty serious? As in, you want to be careful about what you do. You're trying to create, at some level, a living entity after all.

                There's a whole bunch of secondary and tertiary skills involved with this, from shielding and warding, to perhaps some kind of banshing, binding, exorcising (???). I'm not trying to be alarmist. Just pointing some things out you might want to consider.
                Blog: http://thestarsafire.tumblr.com

                Kuchi wa wazawai no moto (the mouth is the origin of disasters)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                  Originally posted by Satu View Post
                  For anyone else confused as ChainLightning:

                  For tulpas, start here: http://www.tulpa.info/, http://thelucidtulpamancer.tumblr.co...out-tulpas-and, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa, and http://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas.

                  For egregores: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore, http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/sseg.php (multiple links available on this site, and http://www.kheperu.org/spirits/spirits6.html.

                  Some stuff on chaos magic (with practitioners sometimes called "chaosites", looks like): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic, http://www.barbelith.com/cgi-bin/art...00000004.shtml.

                  My impression (and I hope OP will correct me if I'm wrong) is that jcaternolo wants to create thoughtforms for whatever reasons, including, perhaps, a deity. The latter guess is taken from another thread, though. Tulpas and egregores are definitely subjects of interest if that's something you want to do.

                  I'm going to be honest, OP. It sounds like you're trying to work in a system whose boundaries are always changing. That's, of course, OK, but since you're a newb, I strongly suggest setting aside some of this stuff for the time being and get experienced within the context of a structured system. Even eclectic Wicca is more structured than what you're doing right now.

                  Note that I didn't say, "give it all up forever." Just, "give it up right now." Or at least don't let yourself get so deep. Someone more versed in non-heka magic will probably correct me, but the stuff you're doing is. . . pretty serious? As in, you want to be careful about what you do. You're trying to create, at some level, a living entity after all.

                  There's a whole bunch of secondary and tertiary skills involved with this, from shielding and warding, to perhaps some kind of banshing, binding, exorcising (???). I'm not trying to be alarmist. Just pointing some things out you might want to consider.
                  Well, most chaosites don't even bother with warding, because warding results in more self doubt. Like, "I need these wards, because I might mess up the spell". And I think the only way to really mess up a spell is to have too much doubt, or not enough elements or something. Anyways, I'll try to read more about it later. As for demons, the only demons that would be summoned are ones that I would already have myself. And I've never dabbled in chaos magick, or any type of magick before (other than simple prayers), so I doubt I have any demons hiding in me. Although I'm gonna wait for my tulpa to become vocal, so I can have her search within me for any demons.
                  What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                    Originally posted by jcaternolo View Post
                    Well, most chaosites don't even bother with warding, because warding results in more self doubt. Like, "I need these wards, because I might mess up the spell".
                    Warding isn't about doubt. It's about *certainty*. The certainty that there are things out there that may not be friendly, or that might be a little too exuberant (not out of malice) for you to handle. Warding is about controlling your space, who has access to it, etc.

                    Grounding, shielding, and warding are basic skills that virtually every magician ought to know. If a chaos magician doesn't use these things, it's because s/he has mastered them, knows their usages, and has determined that, for his/her purposes, they are unneeded. You should really spend some time mastering these skills. You can read up on chaos magic and study other things, but still, basic skills. Study them.

                    Learning these skills will also help you regulate and control the flow of magic/energy. You're going to want to know this stuff. Don't skip it.

                    And I think the only way to really mess up a spell is to have too much doubt, or not enough elements or something.
                    Nooooo. No, no, no. I mean, yes, doubting the spell will work and not having the right tools *will* interfere with the spell's working, but it's not always that simple, especially when you're involving other entities (self-made thoughtforms or not). And then there's always an element of randomness. As they say, shit happens.

                    Anyways, I'll try to read more about it later. As for demons, the only demons that would be summoned are ones that I would already have myself. And I've never dabbled in chaos magick, or any type of magick before (other than simple prayers), so I doubt I have any demons hiding in me. Although I'm gonna wait for my tulpa to become vocal, so I can have her search within me for any demons.
                    Where the hell did anyone mention demons?

                    Also, I was thinking less about what's within you and more about what's with *out* you. As in, those astral nasties that are out to cause you misery.

                    And if you don't have the basic skills to defend yourself (even ones as basic as warding), how the hell do you expect to defend yourself even from demons living "within" you? How do you expect to keep nasties out of your house, out of your life?

                    I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're jumping into way advanced stuff without taking much time getting the foundations. And I get it. The basics are dull while the advanced stuff is cool, flashy, and super-empowering. I thought that way for a long time. Then I made a gigantic mess which blew up in my face. I'm not saying this is what's going to happen to you, but you seem to be staggering into a whole bunch of stuff with (I'm sorry) a high degree of cluelessness.

                    You're stepping into a whole new paradigm of existence. Figure out its contours before you start working with its details.
                    Blog: http://thestarsafire.tumblr.com

                    Kuchi wa wazawai no moto (the mouth is the origin of disasters)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                      I'd go for Druidism if you want something that has emphasis on nature but celtic paganism isn't that similar to Shintoism. I mean there are some similarities but quite different, too.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                        Originally posted by Satu View Post
                        Warding isn't about doubt. It's about *certainty*. The certainty that there are things out there that may not be friendly, or that might be a little too exuberant (not out of malice) for you to handle. Warding is about controlling your space, who has access to it, etc.

                        Grounding, shielding, and warding are basic skills that virtually every magician ought to know. If a chaos magician doesn't use these things, it's because s/he has mastered them, knows their usages, and has determined that, for his/her purposes, they are unneeded. You should really spend some time mastering these skills. You can read up on chaos magic and study other things, but still, basic skills. Study them.

                        Learning these skills will also help you regulate and control the flow of magic/energy. You're going to want to know this stuff. Don't skip it.



                        Nooooo. No, no, no. I mean, yes, doubting the spell will work and not having the right tools *will* interfere with the spell's working, but it's not always that simple, especially when you're involving other entities (self-made thoughtforms or not). And then there's always an element of randomness. As they say, shit happens.



                        Where the hell did anyone mention demons?

                        Also, I was thinking less about what's within you and more about what's with *out* you. As in, those astral nasties that are out to cause you misery.

                        And if you don't have the basic skills to defend yourself (even ones as basic as warding), how the hell do you expect to defend yourself even from demons living "within" you? How do you expect to keep nasties out of your house, out of your life?

                        I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're jumping into way advanced stuff without taking much time getting the foundations. And I get it. The basics are dull while the advanced stuff is cool, flashy, and super-empowering. I thought that way for a long time. Then I made a gigantic mess which blew up in my face. I'm not saying this is what's going to happen to you, but you seem to be staggering into a whole bunch of stuff with (I'm sorry) a high degree of cluelessness.

                        You're stepping into a whole new paradigm of existence. Figure out its contours before you start working with its details.
                        Well, I don't intend on jumping straight into it. I would be doing a lot of preparation first. Even to the point of reading two full guide books on chaos magick. And the demon part came from the fact that if someone uses chaos magick, and isn't prepared, then any demons who attached themselves to the chaosite will leave the body, and haunt his/her house. Either that, or having a demon attached to the chaosite will attract more demons. Something like that. I'm mostly just asking out of curiosity, not sure if I'll even try it yet. I've never even done anything magickal yet, so I would definitely read up on magickal basics, along with the basics of chaos magick. And probably try to learn lower tiers of magick first, before trying something so dangerous.

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                        I'd go for Druidism if you want something that has emphasis on nature but celtic paganism isn't that similar to Shintoism. I mean there are some similarities but quite different, too.
                        I might possible go for that. Would Druidism be able to co-exist with Polytheism? As in, I call upon the deities when needed, while still working with nature? Or do Druids not believe in individual deities, but instead, believe that nature itself is divine?
                        What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                          Originally posted by jcaternolo View Post
                          Well, I don't intend on jumping straight into it. I would be doing a lot of preparation first. Even to the point of reading two full guide books on chaos magick. And the demon part came from the fact that if someone uses chaos magick, and isn't prepared, then any demons who attached themselves to the chaosite will leave the body, and haunt his/her house. Either that, or having a demon attached to the chaosite will attract more demons. Something like that. I'm mostly just asking out of curiosity, not sure if I'll even try it yet. I've never even done anything magickal yet, so I would definitely read up on magickal basics, along with the basics of chaos magick. And probably try to learn lower tiers of magick first, before trying something so dangerous.

                          - - - Updated - - -


                          I might possible go for that. Would Druidism be able to co-exist with Polytheism? As in, I call upon the deities when needed, while still working with nature? Or do Druids not believe in individual deities, but instead, believe that nature itself is divine?
                          It depends and some people believe it in a sense that's a philosophy to be defined and some believe in it and accept it as their religion. There are a lot of celtic deities so polytheism would be great because that's what I do. Some however only believe in nature as divine or believe that everything is an aspect of the Great Goddess and some don't worship at all. It really depends on how you view Druidism which is what I like about it because it doesn't have a scripture or dogma and you can interpret how you want to. I personally do the polytheistic route and respect and venerate nature as I worship more than one deity. Ogma, Cernnunos and Brigind are the ones I pay attention to the most but Lugh is interesting to me, too. I'd check it out.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                            Originally posted by ChainLightning View Post
                            Where are you getting all this from? Tulpamancers? Chaosites? The E on egregor? Have you got an extensive library? Can you give me some authors' names, to look this shit up? I've been around the Pagan and Neo-Pagan community for decades, now, and you're introducing all sorts of weird shit I've never heard of. I need sources. Lots and lots of sources.
                            The concept of Tulpa comes from Buddhism.

                            Today, in it's modern form it's kind of a phenomenon to ''create'' things out of one's mind.

                            Today, there are people who attempt to create what they call tulpas or imaginary friends of their own. A number of web sites explain the methods people use to create tulpas of this sort.[15] Chidambaram Ramesh, an Indian author and researchers, in his book "Thought Forms and Hallucinations" has mentioned that the creation of thought forms and other mental entities like Tulpa etc., is the result of holographic mind processing.


                            Link>
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                              Originally posted by Wonder View Post
                              The concept of Tulpa comes from Buddhism.

                              Today, in it's modern form it's kind of a phenomenon to ''create'' things out of one's mind.

                              Today, there are people who attempt to create what they call tulpas or imaginary friends of their own. A number of web sites explain the methods people use to create tulpas of this sort.[15] Chidambaram Ramesh, an Indian author and researchers, in his book "Thought Forms and Hallucinations" has mentioned that the creation of thought forms and other mental entities like Tulpa etc., is the result of holographic mind processing.


                              Link>
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa
                              Well, considering that tulpas can pilot themselves, as well as take turns piloting the host's body, and are also capable of creating tulpas and servitors of their own, I strongly believe that they are sentient. Some tulpas have even questioned the validity of their existence, and their hosts had to assure them that they are real. I've heard of people with multiple tulpas and servitors, and I doubt even the human mind is able to subconsciously control all of them at once. There has to be something behind those thoughts. Another thing, the human brain has two halves, so there's nothing stopping a tulpa from using the other half. Although that doesn't really explain multiple tulpas (I'm guessing one is active, while the others are living in the wonderland/dreamscape).

                              Edit: Also, it appears that tulpas are capable of soul travel. Although one tulpa tried astral projection with his host, and his host was unable to astral project himself. He ran to use the bathroom, and when he came back, his tulpa was gone, but he could faintly see a faint image of his tulpa. He believes his tulpa is stuck somewhere in the astral plane, because it keeps fading in and out.
                              What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

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