Is my God your God, your point of view? [Archive]

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motherearth

04 Sep 2014, 10:55

Munin-Hugin

04 Sep 2014, 12:59

I totally get what you're saying. In a way, it's sort of something that I think about from time to time, until it starts to make my head hurt.

Does what I call the color blue and see as the color blue appear the same to someone else? Or do they see my color blue as my color green, but we've all grown up calling it the same thing?

Basically, it's about how we all perceive the same thing in different ways. Odin is Odin, no matter if I am in commune with him, or someone in Germany is communing with him. While we may get different messages from Him, or see Him in different ways, or honor Him in different manners, He is the same. It is we who are different, and therefore know Him differently.

Ophidia

04 Sep 2014, 16:38

In the broader sense of myths and archetypes, yes, I imagine those who worship or have a patron God/dess have the same deity. On a personal level, I think we all tend to see what we want to see in our relationships with our deities.

My relationship with Hades was one of servitude, reserve and utmost respect - but I've heard others talk about Him like He is a teddy bear. Even though the relationships were different, I've heard more than one person who has encountered Hades describe the exact same physical aspects and environment as what I know. So, yes, it's the same God - it's the people who are different.

Torey

04 Sep 2014, 19:09

Gleb

04 Sep 2014, 20:25

In all jewish schools, studying the Jewish bible is necessary. Because it is the part of the education. I study in a religious high school. So my view on Yhwh is a huge divine force that controls the whole universe and can do everything literally.
This is the view I developed along the years.

loststarshine

04 Sep 2014, 20:57

A qood question. One i havent answered myself.

satanic witch

05 Sep 2014, 02:05

I believe everyones perception of there god or gods is different to the rest. For example I'm a theistic satanist and have met a lot of other theistic satanists and we all seem to have a different interpretation of him , like I believe gods are more along the lines of a type of energy rather then flesh blood humanoid beings . So no I don't think any persons gods are the same or even similar to the man next to him

Azvanna

05 Sep 2014, 19:11

So no I don't think any persons gods are the same or even similar to the man next to him Is that because of the person's interpretation of energy or due to the manifestation of different energies?

In my heart of hearts, I believe that there is one Divine thing that runs through everything and has its own separate identity as well. I believe that the many gods articulated by cultures throughout history is the same Divine. If I can quote Ophidia: We all see what we want to see in our Gods. I think when we begin to articulate and give words to our gods, in some way, we can also begin to control them. We know what to expect of them, what they might do for us, what they want of us. When a culture begins to find words for their gods, they are articulating their needs, their questions, their morals. So, overtime I think humankind's understanding of the Divine grows and adjusts. We stand on the shoulders of giants so to speak.

I really want to expand on this and make it really clear, but I just don't have time anymore to be pedantic about my posts! lol.

motherearth

06 Sep 2014, 00:15

Thanks for the reply Munin-Hugin . Haha and thats what happens to me I think about it till my head hurts and then just forget about it but it seems pretty important in how we perceive things. Hmm I see what your saying it's more about how we see the same deity as individuals.

Thanks for the reply :)

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Ophidia thanks for your reply. It seems what your saying makes sense to me that it's people who are different, I think what confuses me is when people starts arguing about what is and what is not about the same God, it makes me feel somehow their God and mine differs on a principle level at the very least, but this is what helps me accept other people :) so I guess it's not a bad thong in general.

Thanks again for your input.

satanic witch

06 Sep 2014, 00:17

Is that because of the person's interpretation of energy or due to the manifestation of different energies?

In my heart of hearts, I believe that there is one Divine thing that runs through everything and has its own separate identity as well. I believe that the many gods articulated by cultures throughout history is the same Divine. If I can quote Ophidia: We all see what we want to see in our Gods. I think when we begin to articulate and give words to our gods, in some way, we can also begin to control them. We know what to expect of them, what they might do for us, what they want of us. When a culture begins to find words for their gods, they are articulating their needs, their questions, their morals. So, overtime I think humankind's understanding of the Divine grows and adjusts. We stand on the shoulders of giants so to speak.

I really want to expand on this and make it really clear, but I just don't have time anymore to be pedantic about my posts! lol.

Yes and no I think its possible for there to have been a one devine energy aka god but energy can only be changed not destroyed so as deity's came into the existence of the minds of man I believe the energy seperated and changed and it changes with everyone's interpretation of there god a piece changes to fit it, so yes one devine is possible in my idea anyway

motherearth

06 Sep 2014, 00:44

Thanks for the reply Torey. That's how I understand it too but I am caught up in between believing that we see our God or Gods different from each other and believing it is the same God or Gods.

Thanks again for the reply :)

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Thanks for your reply Gleb. Your point of view makes sense to me since I follow a specific set of principles but still I struggle with believing only in that somehow I also believe how we see God Gods makes our God Gods different from someone else's when speaking about the same God or Gods.

Thanks for your input.

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Haha I guess we are in the same boat here.

Thanks for the reply Loststarshine

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Thanks for your reply Satanic Witch. I share a similar view to yours in some sense but am stuck in between my own question so I guess this will remain with me haha. But your point of view is one I share and one that helps me believe every one has the right to their own religion or believe and that no one can condemn you for what you believe in.

Thanks again for your input.

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Thanks for your reply Azvanna. I share this belief as well I guess I am just struggling when people argue under another about the same God or Gods, it makes me feel their God or Gods differ from one another, but I absolutely get what you are saying and agree on many levels.

Thanks for always having a vast input into topics. :)

loststarshine

07 Sep 2014, 21:55

I think about it and my head hurts too. To think of Aries, Posideon, Ra, Thor, Pan being the same god is hard. I do somethings deditacted to the Lord and Lady but i invision those as an essesence of male and female divine energy. Bast and Sekhmet feel personal to me. I dont feel like my goddesses are one grand goddesses. Bast is Bast shes not Athena or Freya or Airmed. I have pondered if our pantheons are children of two grand divines.

satanic witch

07 Sep 2014, 22:51

It makes my head hurt to

thalassa

08 Sep 2014, 06:03

I think it depends on how you define "god".

I think there is one Divine, expressed a myriad of ways. And I think that individual deities are mostly of our own making.

nbdy

08 Sep 2014, 10:31

I think that all the different perspectives are basically metaphors for the same thing, ie, what is. We are all just doing our best to articulate what is when our apprehension of it is limited at best. We have certain experiences and we either find a ready metaphor to explain it or make one up, or might even ignore experiences that don't fit something we find comfortable. Using words as the tool sometimes feels like trying to hammer with a fish, but that is what we have.

Anyway, to swipe an analogy from Minkin, so many debates feel like two people playing singles tennis on two different tennis courts, each serving for all they are worth as if one can somehow best the other. They are each correct within the parameters they have set, and not communicating at all. And so it often seems to me when people argue religion. I find that once I understand the metaphor, each religion I have considered makes perfect sense, and none contradicts my sense of the universe.

Since I don't see any other game in town other than this existence, no matter how you decide to understand it, then no matter what descriptions we use to explain our experiences we are, of necessity, talking about the same thing. Call it God if you want to.

LunarHarvest

10 Sep 2014, 23:23

What is your point of view on God? Is God to you the same God that the rest of the community in your faith/religion share ? Or do you feel the God you believe in differs to the God another person of your faith/religion? (Individual God or some sort of personal God)

In a sense I suppose this is correct, though not in the sense that would mean that one religion is the same as another, and coming at it from a Shinto perspective. For example, Jesus of Nazareth may not have been the son of God to me, but I will acknowledge that his spirit and thus Kami have been enshrined and revered by more than two billion people. In this way, the Christian Jesus is essentially a Kami, but this changes the nature of the interpretation of Jesus.

I am pretty sure that the same could be applied to Gods or Goddesses of other religions as well, so I would say that they are largely the same, in terms of the reasoning described above, but that things like interpretation, spiritual beliefs and rituals, to name a few, vary considerably from the original religion.

I think that should get the general concept across, but I agree that trying to think over all the different religions and Gods and Goddesses hurts my head a little. :p

DON

10 Dec 2014, 12:47

Hey brothers and sisters, I have always felt a little strange about some things in my path but I want to discuss one factor only, just to be clear I believe in Jesus but don't consider myself a christian rather a follower of Jesus.

What is your point of view on God? Is God to you the same God that the rest of the community in your faith/religion share ? Or do you feel the God you believe in differs to the God another person of your faith/religion? (Individual God or some sort of personal God)

I hope the question makes sense ? I am trying to gain better knowledge on this subject.

Thanks in advance. Love to all :)

Maybe you should consider yourself Christian (which means a follower of Jesus) and not a religious person that follows Christian doctrine.

Everyone has a different perception of God because their personal relationship is unique. This is a major reason why so many young people brought up in the church break away for a time. There is this misconception that because God is unchanging, it also means he's one dimensional. Kids grow up with the perception of God as their parents experience him. Then as they mature, they discover that in order to form their own relationship they must abandon their parents constructs.

A good example is a parent I know who because of certain life events, he needs an authoritarian figure to feel loved. His relationship with God has an authoritarian aspect to it that his oldest son rejected. It took them years to figure out, and it damaged their relationship with each other.

We are like God in many ways. The relationship I have with my work colleagues is different to that of my children, and each child is different. Because of this, even though I am one person, their knowledge of who I am will all be different.

In the same way, God is one and the same, but we all have different perceptions of who he is because our relationships are unique.

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Yeah, that pretty much stands in direct opposition to what Jesus claimed. Although you have made a noble attempt at reconciling Yeshua with the concepts of Shinto, they are totally incompatible. It does however expose an aspect of what is called "the offence of the cross".

motherearth

29 Dec 2014, 14:23

Maybe you should consider yourself Christian (which means a follower of Jesus) and not a religious person that follows Christian doctrine.

Everyone has a different perception of God because their personal relationship is unique. This is a major reason why so many young people brought up in the church break away for a time. There is this misconception that because God is unchanging, it also means he's one dimensional. Kids grow up with the perception of God as their parents experience him. Then as they mature, they discover that in order to form their own relationship they must abandon their parents constructs.

A good example is a parent I know who because of certain life events, he needs an authoritarian figure to feel loved. His relationship with God has an authoritarian aspect to it that his oldest son rejected. It took them years to figure out, and it damaged their relationship with each other.

We are like God in many ways. The relationship I have with my work colleagues is different to that of my children, and each child is different. Because of this, even though I am one person, their knowledge of who I am will all be different.

In the same way, God is one and the same, but we all have different perceptions of who he is because our relationships are unique.

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Yeah, that pretty much stands in direct opposition to what Jesus claimed. Although you have made a noble attempt at reconciling Yeshua with the concepts of Shinto, they are totally incompatible. It does however expose an aspect of what is called "the offence of the cross".

Thanks you for the response, what you're saying makes sense to me. Could you please explain what you mean by "reconciling Yeshua with the concepts of Shinto"? And "the offence of the cross"?

Thank you for the response Don

thalassa

29 Dec 2014, 16:25

Thanks you for the response, what you're saying makes sense to me. Could you please explain what you mean by "reconciling Yeshua with the concepts of Shinto"? And "the offence of the cross"?

Thank you for the response Don

Don makes sporadic visits, but since I'm not sure when we'll see him next, I can at least answer part of this...though his POV on the matter might differ (and as is common with the Bible and Christianity, he might be talking about something completely different), so my commentary may or may not help.

The phrase "offense of the cross" is generally a reference to Galatians 5:11 "Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished." (New International Version) (all of Galatians 5 for context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205)), which is conventionally interpreted (http://www.awmi.net/bible/gal_05_11) within most Protestant faiths as commentary on salvation solus Christus, by Christ alone (there are 4 other solas, the 5 of which (http://www.theopedia.com/Five_Solas) sum up the Protestant reformation and "protes"t of the Roman Catholic Church). The so-called offense is that one's individual piety and holiness isn't enough to save them from their sins, only faith in Jesus can do that. Personally, I think the "offense of the Cross" is a Pauline example of hypocrisy and its only offense is one of hubris, but that's an unrelated topic (and one of many reasons why I've not been Christian in over 2 decades...).

I think though, his comment was actually a response to Lunar Harvest's post:

In a sense I suppose this is correct, though not in the sense that would mean that one religion is the same as another, and coming at it from a Shinto perspective. For example, Jesus of Nazareth may not have been the son of God to me, but I will acknowledge that his spirit and thus Kami have been enshrined and revered by more than two billion people. In this way, the Christian Jesus is essentially a Kami, but this changes the nature of the interpretation of Jesus.

I am pretty sure that the same could be applied to Gods or Goddesses of other religions as well, so I would say that they are largely the same, in terms of the reasoning described above, but that things like interpretation, spiritual beliefs and rituals, to name a few, vary considerably from the original religion.

Which, from a conventional Christian POV is a bit heretical. From a non-Christian perspective though, its a legitimate POV. If you aren't Christian, you don't accept the circular authority of the Bible.

The question is, I think (not one you need to answer for me, but for yourself)...in what ways are you a follower of Jesus? Thomas Jefferson edited his own version of the Bible (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/arts-culture/how-thomas-jefferson-created-his-own-bible-5659505/)--took out all the miracles, the resurrection, and in the end, condensed the NT down to 84 pages (and eliminated the OT all together). His view of God was that of a deist. He still considered himself a Christian (though his political opponents did not). The are some 38,000 denominations Christianities among the world's 2+ billion followers--their views on the Bible, on the divinity of Jesus, on the nature of God, on salvation, on the sacraments, etc vary wildly.

Labels are useful for communication...words express what we are in as a distilled and idealized symbol, but they aren't perfect in expressing the reality of who and what we are. This is true whether the discussion or debate is over how one see's god, or over what religion they identify with (or not).

I have an analogy that sometimes I like to use to explain the different concepts of deity/deities. If you think of god as a box an atheist is someone that doesn't believe in boxes, an agnostic thinks it can go either way, a polytheist has a pile of boxes, and a monotheist has one box. Some people that believe in their box have an expansive box that has the room to hold millions of boxes in all sizes and shapes and colors...some people have tiny boxes that are lucky to hold anything at all. I believe the Universe itself is a box that takes the shape the Cosmos and holds as many smaller boxes as we can conceive of. I don't believe that all gods are the same god--or even that all the ideations of a god are the same god (perception is reality), but I do believe that Divinity in its entirety has room for all the gods, even the ones of the jealous sort.

My grandfather (who died a few years ago) was an unorthodox sort of Christian (the kind I like to call a "Gandhi Christian--the ones that strive to emulate the better qualities of Jesus rather than the ones that "so unlike their Christ"), with a line of sayings on the matter of Christianity longer than my arm, and one of his favorite comments (the exact wording varied so that it fit the conversation) was that "God reveals himself in the way that we are capable of understanding" and that there was no view of God that was wrong, so long as it was honest and in keeping with the "betterment of ourselves and the honoring of one another". If you

Thorbjorn

30 Dec 2014, 06:14

motherearth

30 Dec 2014, 12:13

Don makes sporadic visits, but since I'm not sure when we'll see him next, I can at least answer part of this...though his POV on the matter might differ (and as is common with the Bible and Christianity, he might be talking about something completely different), so my commentary may or may not help.

The phrase "offense of the cross" is generally a reference to Galatians 5:11 "Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished." (New International Version) (all of Galatians 5 for context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205)), which is conventionally interpreted (http://www.awmi.net/bible/gal_05_11) within most Protestant faiths as commentary on salvation solus Christus, by Christ alone (there are 4 other solas, the 5 of which (http://www.theopedia.com/Five_Solas) sum up the Protestant reformation and "protes"t of the Roman Catholic Church). The so-called offense is that one's individual piety and holiness isn't enough to save them from their sins, only faith in Jesus can do that. Personally, I think the "offense of the Cross" is a Pauline example of hypocrisy and its only offense is one of hubris, but that's an unrelated topic (and one of many reasons why I've not been Christian in over 2 decades...).

I think though, his comment was actually a response to Lunar Harvest's post:

Which, from a conventional Christian POV is a bit heretical. From a non-Christian perspective though, its a legitimate POV. If you aren't Christian, you don't accept the circular authority of the Bible.

The question is, I think (not one you need to answer for me, but for yourself)...in what ways are you a follower of Jesus? Thomas Jefferson edited his own version of the Bible (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/arts-culture/how-thomas-jefferson-created-his-own-bible-5659505/)--took out all the miracles, the resurrection, and in the end, condensed the NT down to 84 pages (and eliminated the OT all together). His view of God was that of a deist. He still considered himself a Christian (though his political opponents did not). The are some 38,000 denominations Christianities among the world's 2+ billion followers--their views on the Bible, on the divinity of Jesus, on the nature of God, on salvation, on the sacraments, etc vary wildly.

Labels are useful for communication...words express what we are in as a distilled and idealized symbol, but they aren't perfect in expressing the reality of who and what we are. This is true whether the discussion or debate is over how one see's god, or over what religion they identify with (or not).

I have an analogy that sometimes I like to use to explain the different concepts of deity/deities. If you think of god as a box an atheist is someone that doesn't believe in boxes, an agnostic thinks it can go either way, a polytheist has a pile of boxes, and a monotheist has one box. Some people that believe in their box have an expansive box that has the room to hold millions of boxes in all sizes and shapes and colors...some people have tiny boxes that are lucky to hold anything at all. I believe the Universe itself is a box that takes the shape the Cosmos and holds as many smaller boxes as we can conceive of. I don't believe that all gods are the same god--or even that all the ideations of a god are the same god (perception is reality), but I do believe that Divinity in its entirety has room for all the gods, even the ones of the jealous sort.

My grandfather (who died a few years ago) was an unorthodox sort of Christian (the kind I like to call a "Gandhi Christian--the ones that strive to emulate the better qualities of Jesus rather than the ones that "so unlike their Christ"), with a line of sayings on the matter of Christianity longer than my arm, and one of his favorite comments (the exact wording varied so that it fit the conversation) was that "God reveals himself in the way that we are capable of understanding" and that there was no view of God that was wrong, so long as it was honest and in keeping with the "betterment of ourselves and the honoring of one another". If you

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I agree with what you're saying about how we label ourselves but it doesn't say much because it can have a different meaning to someone who uses the exact same label. It is the reason why I don't want to label myself a christian but it becomes a problem because somewhere along the line I'll have to use a term to place myself. Also often times I change in belief and it causes a headache cause for some reason we humans want to stand on solid ground and therefore want to use labels to belong.

I respect and also believe that there is no view of God that is wrong and that we all experience things differently but that's what made me open this thread to get a better perspective. I feel frustrated when people preach to me how the only way is their way of believing that's why I have a hard time when I visit a Church, aren't we suppose to encourage and love one another. My apologies for the ramble.

Thanks for the reply Thalassa :)

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My view of the Aesir and Vanir, as well as the other beings is pretty much the same as other Asatruars. The gods and goddesses are real beings with their own personalities, interests and areas of "expertise". Thor is my personal god, protector and friend, and I am his devotee and servant. Most devotees see him pretty much the same: friend, protector, big brother, buddy, very charismatic, down-to-Earth, someone you want to hang out with, and are very happy to do things for.

Thanks for the post. I can agree with you on how we individually see a God or Goddess in similar ways because of eg. Personality, traits that's how we share our existence. I guess I get confused when reading about all the different denominations and how everybody argues about a certain aspect.

Thanks again for the response :)

Thorbjorn

30 Dec 2014, 12:37

Thanks for the post. I can agree with you on how we individually see a God or Goddess in similar ways because of eg. Personality, traits that's how we share our existence. I guess I get confused when reading about all the different denominations and how everybody argues about a certain aspect.

Thanks again for the response :)

There's a saying in Avadhi (Asian Indian language) that loosely translates as "Everyone sees God in their own way". I'd put an addendum on that: "And no one should argue about it". :D

Pathway Machine

24 Jul 2015, 09:49

This is my personal opinion based upon Biblical study.

The thing about god is, that it is just a word that means a person or persons are attributing a might greater than their own or is venerated. Here is an example of a god.

A man stumbles over the grass plains. He's alone, cold, exhausted, and very hungry. Its getting dark and he would like a fire to keep the wolves at bay and keep himself warm. Maybe cook something if he can build up the energy to catch it. There is no fuel for a fire for miles. Just green grass. Then he stumbles on something. In what little light there is left he sees its a dried pile of bovine excrement. Bull shit, you might say. Looking around he finds more of it and is able to build a fire. Underneath the excrement he is able to find all sorts of creeping things he can use as food, and now he is safe, warm and fed. On his own he hadn't been any of these things.

The dung becomes his god. It saved his life.

A god can be anything, or anyone that someone else venerates or attributes a might greater than their own to. It kinda screws up the entire definition of atheism by definition, doesn't it? There are trillions of gods. A god doesn't have to actually exist, nor does one have to attribute might to or venerate it oneself to acknowledge it is a god. Zeus, for example, doesn't exist. I don't believe in Zeus, I don't worship Zeus. Zeus is a god.

Most gods, in fact, very nearly all gods, however, have a name. Bull shit mentioned above would be given a name. Perhaps . . . Poopy. Or Stinky Salvation. Then of course it would evolve . . . but I digress.Then the gods have distinct characteristics and personalities. If the god is well documented this limits one in their application of that specific God, at least in an accurate way.

Most people take a vague concept of a "God" that is popular to their culture or specific geographical location and, rather than acquire accurate knowledge of that God, i.e., getting to know him, they fabricate their own oversimplified transmogrification of this God or they buy into a massively appealing pre-transmogrified version of it for social, political or cultural reasons. The Latin term Deus Ex Machina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina), meaning "God From The Machine" or God From Our Own Hands comes to mind.

It always tickles me when someone says something like "I don't think God would mind me having a good time, singing, dancing and all of that in celebration to some other God or religious holiday." Are you sure about that?