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    World united asa church

    Im going to be honest, we arn't that many in the world that worships the gods. it is perfectly possible for all believers to unite under 1 flag. just here in sweden we have 1 or 2 diffrent churches of asa. Why is the religion so shatterd ? if we unite under one interpretation of edda, beleif accept some diffrences or alot we could unite under a world pagan church that would spread the same words and gather followers on a grander scale. More followers are political power and the establishment of a nation or somethin along those lines.. i know that it's a long shot but i also know that everyone has thought the same question before. This is my suggestion, unite under the same word, interprete things the same way and let's start gather followers !.... WHOS WITH ME ?!!



    ...no one ? okej..

    #2
    Re: World united asa church

    Hi Blodsbroder, welcome to our forum
    It's troublesome. Many people don't want to live under one flag. Besides there will be conflicts between followers of different religions.
    I agree with you in what concerns the number of pagans when compared to the number of non-pagans. But I have to say that as far as I know, none of the pagan branches wants to attract more followers.

    I'd like to appoint you to this thread: http://www.paganforum.com/showthread...el-for-Judaism
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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      #3
      Re: World united asa church

      First of all, I doubt there will ever be just one interpretation of the Edda that everyone will be able to agree upon and follow. Everyone reads it their own way. Even the scholars read and interpret it differently.
      Since it is so open for interpretation I can't imagine an accepted, unified doctrine that the believers would actually follow.

      Second; about the churches and the religion. I live in Sweden too and have been checking out what organisations and groups we have here for asatroende and heathens etc. I can't really make up my mind about them.
      Several of them seem pretty all right - they want to do their thing and as long as one doesn't bother them they are totally fine with someone else doing their own thing. Live and let live attitude, kindof.
      But it seems to me there are a couple different factions within asatro that would keep it divided (or shattered)... I think simply put one of the issues I see can be boiled down to this; On the one hand we have those use their beliefs as a tool for white supremacy (which I'm sure many of us are aware of). On the other hand we have those that don't feel that way at all and are open to people of all colors, ethic backgrounds, cultures etc.
      It seems to me such widely different attitudes aren't exactly compatible and couldn't very well be unified.

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        #4
        Re: World united asa church

        Originally posted by Odahviing View Post
        First of all, I doubt there will ever be just one interpretation of the Edda that everyone will be able to agree upon and follow. Everyone reads it their own way. Even the scholars read and interpret it differently.
        Since it is so open for interpretation I can't imagine an accepted, unified doctrine that the believers would actually follow.

        Second; about the churches and the religion. I live in Sweden too and have been checking out what organisations and groups we have here for asatroende and heathens etc. I can't really make up my mind about them.
        Several of them seem pretty all right - they want to do their thing and as long as one doesn't bother them they are totally fine with someone else doing their own thing. Live and let live attitude, kindof.
        But it seems to me there are a couple different factions within asatro that would keep it divided (or shattered)... I think simply put one of the issues I see can be boiled down to this; On the one hand we have those use their beliefs as a tool for white supremacy (which I'm sure many of us are aware of). On the other hand we have those that don't feel that way at all and are open to people of all colors, ethic backgrounds, cultures etc.
        It seems to me such widely different attitudes aren't exactly compatible and couldn't very well be unified.
        I've been looking in to asatro too, both internationally and in Denmark. There seems to be tons of minor factions who don't get along or downright hate each other, I don't see how trying to unite them would end well at all. I spent a few hours just reading interpretations of single passages of the edda, and I'm pretty sure I didn't find two texts that actually agreed - religious and scholary alike
        You remind me of the babe
        What babe?
        The babe with the power
        What power?
        The Power of voodoo
        Who do?
        You do!
        Do what?
        Remind me of the babe!

        Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

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          #5
          Re: World united asa church

          I've been hailing the Gods of Our Ancestors for 50 years now. In that time, I've concluded that there are maybe two things most Heathens agree on:

          1) You're doing it wrong.

          2) You're not the boss of me.
          I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

          Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
          Clan of my Clan
          Kin of my Kin
          Blood of my Blood



          For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
          And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

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            #6
            Re: World united asa church

            Gotta remember how long MAJOR religions have been trying to be one great group...You "Might" begin to see why this would not really work out...Different sects of Jewish faith,MANY different christian faiths,some with radical differences and then you have the Muslims with mainly 2 different sects,and hating each other enough to kill each other.

            So,good luck getting all the one sect pagans into one whole group..As Rick mentioned "Your not the boss of me"
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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              #7
              Re: World united asa church

              These are just my observations, which I'm perfectly amenable to being corrected, challenged and just plain shot down.

              I've thought about this (dis)unity of Asatru, and I can't see how centralization could possibly work. Though admittedly my time as an Asatruar is embarrassingly short compared to some of you, especially Rick. From what I've seen so far, I also wonder whose translations and interpretations of the Eddas, Sagas, and other poems do we use? Who fills in the gaps of the missing Lore (I capitalize it out of respect ) which seems to be a few hundred years' worth? For example, there's precious little, if any Lore about the origins of the gods and goddesses; i.e. when and how were Thor, Freyr, Balder, et al born? Did anyone ever know, and is that even important? What happens with the folkish/non-folkish dichotomy? What were the day to day rituals and beliefs? All this today is being made up, pieced together and reconned as we go along. Asatru and Heathenism today may actually be almost totally unrecognizable to a 10th century Norse.

              Even religions like Judaism and Hinduism, which have thousands of years of unbroken traditions are split into sects and denominations that have only the Torah and Vedas in their respective religions in common, and even then, they have many interpretations. I think the first step is to revive Asatru/Heathenism on a larger scale, publicize and advertise it more heavily, and attract followers. Or at least get a message out to people who have the beliefs, but don't think anyone else does. Let these people realize... "hey, it is a real religion I follow!" Small steps.
              śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
              śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                #8
                Re: World united asa church

                I understand what you are saying even though I feel church is a poor choice

                Agree with most of what has been replied. The best we could hope for is a united title/term for what we are and what it is we practice. We don't want lots of little details set in stone or especially a small number of individuals deemed our religious leaders. Most definitely not one individual.

                As small and slow as things seem at times, there has been lots of positive growth internationally in the last 20 years.

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                  #9
                  Re: World united asa church

                  Originally posted by Rick View Post
                  I've been hailing the Gods of Our Ancestors for 50 years now. In that time, I've concluded that there are maybe two things most Heathens agree on:

                  1) You're doing it wrong.

                  2) You're not the boss of me.
                  Exactly. (Although I feel that way about mostly everything, *half-bitter laugh*)

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                    #10
                    Re: World united asa church

                    I would imagine not every single village or family had a set practice even when at the height of the faith. If I wanted to follow a book and have a leader I would have stayed Christian. I group would be nice once in a while for stuff but in general I really don't want to hear about how my practice is too fluffy or not historical or even worse encounter racists regularly.

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                      #11
                      Re: World united asa church

                      I know I'm just echoing what others have said, but an organised religion really doesn't seem to sit well for me.

                      Even if we could somehow get past the problems of having 'one' reading of a text (taking into consideration that Sagas, Eddas and historical evidence are all open to bias, not to mention translation issues), there's still the whole 'getting more followers'. I don't feel comfortable recruiting anyone, to anything even if I really, really want them to do it. When it comes to spirituality in particular, it's not my job to get more followers for the Gods, that's their job.

                      However, there is some merit in discussing how we can come together more as a Heathen community. We don't necessarily need to be an organised religion, in order to come together in a better way. Personally, I think the biggest issue facing us in becoming more cohesive as a community is not the different ways of interpreting texts, or even degrees of fluffiness, but of the nasty vein of racism that exists. For me, it's the racists (who also tend to be the sexists/LBTQAI-phobics) that kept me from trying to find a Heathen community for a long time and who remain the main reason why I find it hard to talk to others about what I believe.

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                        #12
                        Re: World united asa church

                        I believe that becoming popular is one of the best ways to destroy all authenticity in religion. It's just how social mechanics work. I would make a guess that in every country, religion that is most popular, attracts most people who are interested about using the religion for something else than actually practising it.

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                          #13
                          Re: World united asa church

                          And why should we "unite" that way? To stop thinking? To consume official brands? To obey a pontifex? To rule the world?
                          Quantity is not quality. We have certain differences, that produces different groups. That's ok, that's freedom. It would be better though if the various groups would work together for broader goals instead of fighting each other on details.

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                            #14
                            Re: World united asa church

                            Originally posted by Ula View Post
                            I would imagine not every single village or family had a set practice even when at the height of the faith. If I wanted to follow a book and have a leader I would have stayed Christian. I group would be nice once in a while for stuff but in general I really don't want to hear about how my practice is too fluffy or not historical or even worse encounter racists regularly.
                            Hehehe... I've been called wiccatru and nazitru by the same person in the same paragraph. Go figure.
                            I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

                            Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
                            Clan of my Clan
                            Kin of my Kin
                            Blood of my Blood



                            For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                            And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: World united asa church

                              Not me. For a start although I define myself as broadly pagan, I have strong leanings towards Anglo-Saxon paganism which is a bit different anyway. But I don't like the idea of everyone being united because, quite frankly, I don't think we were ever meant to be all the same. There's nothing wrong with being different as long as you don't bludgeon your neighbour over your differences.
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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