Sacrifices

[Norse_Angel]

So, another post in this forum gave me the question of how others may think of the ideologies of sacrificial offerings. During blots, and other celebrations, what does the common heathen use to please the gods? I know many take to alcoholic beverages in offerings and I know of some who prefer to offer blood. I was wondering what people use for their offerings in general.
And on the topic, Have any of us used living offerings during celebrations or rituals? If so, what have you used? For an example, a couple Yules ago, my folk and I sacrificed a pig for feast. We did it in a very humane way, with as little suffering dealt to the beast as possible.
Sorry if I'm over stepping a forum rule within this post. I am not asking for gory recollections from any live offerings. I am wondering how many of us have actually taken a part in some type of living sacrifice. I, in no way, am glorifying or recommending any to go to a local pet store in search of a small animal to kill.

[thalassa]

Re: Sacrifices

Its a-ok with this topic--we've had a couple of convos on animal sacrifice and blood sacrifices before. But, in the interests of the weak of stomach, I'll second the no gory reflections!!

IMO: If its humanely done and you eat it, I don't care. If its humanely done and you don't eat it, I might grumble a little in my head. If its not humanely done and I see evidence of it, I'm calling the cops.

With that being said (not being Heathen though), I've used my own blood in ritual, the blood of another in ritual (my stillborn child*), and I've been part of sacrificing a tomato in a mock Mayan sacrifice (which is a really long story, and no judgy-judgy, we were in middle school).


*It occurred to me that I should maybe explain this a bit---it was blood that got on the clothing/blanket the baby was put in by the hospital from the umbilicus, and we basically burned it in effigy as part of a grief/mourning/funeral ritual (not so much as a sacrifice) since we couldn't afford to cremate or bury her (we were young and in the military, living out of state from our homes and families) anywhere of significance...and when that happens, hospitals dispose of the fetus as they would medical waste.

[sirz345]

Re: Sacrifices

So, another post in this forum gave me the question of how others may think of the ideologies of sacrificial offerings. During blots, and other celebrations, what does the common heathen use to please the gods? I know many take to alcoholic beverages in offerings and I know of some who prefer to offer blood. I was wondering what people use for their offerings in general.
And on the topic, Have any of us used living offerings during celebrations or rituals? If so, what have you used? For an example, a couple Yules ago, my folk and I sacrificed a pig for feast. We did it in a very humane way, with as little suffering dealt to the beast as possible.
Sorry if I'm over stepping a forum rule within this post. I am not asking for gory recollections from any live offerings. I am wondering how many of us have actually taken a part in some type of living sacrifice. I, in no way, am glorifying or recommending any to go to a local pet store in search of a small animal to kill.

I am an animal sacrificer, I've done it once but it wasn't like I stole someone's family pet. It was a chicken I got from a good farm about a month before hand and for that month he ate better than I probably did lol. I pampered him as thank you for the sacrifice he was going to make as well as the blessings he'd bring upon me and my kin. Of course I've been around farms many times in my life, I know a bit about chicken anatomy, it was quick, painless and afterwards I ate him and said a long prayer in Icelandic (usually I stick to English, this was kind of a big ritual) as both a thank you to the chicken and asking the gods to accept my sacrifice (I said the 'accept my sacrifice' bit right after, felt I should clarify that and I did cook him before I ate him.)

Honestly I only did it because my life had recently turned around for the better and I felt the gods deserved a big thank you (I also waited for the summer solstice to perform it as well.) I would do it again probably, I definitely don't think every offering you make should be that kind of sacrifice. I believe there is excessive animal sacrifice and human sacrifice is (obviously) never tolerable, and under no circumstances should you just toss the corpse aside.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Sacrifices

And on the topic, Have any of us used living offerings during celebrations or rituals? If so, what have you used? For an example, a couple Yules ago, my folk and I sacrificed a pig for feast. We did it in a very humane way, with as little suffering dealt to the beast as possible.
Sorry if I'm over stepping a forum rule within this post. I am not asking for gory recollections from any live offerings. I am wondering how many of us have actually taken a part in some type of living sacrifice. I, in no way, am glorifying or recommending any to go to a local pet store in search of a small animal to kill.

I have absolutely no problem with a humanely raised and killed sacrifice, though I've never done it myself. Having said that, I've killed a number of living creatures, for a number of reasons... I was raised in the country, I'm a vet nurse, and I'm my family's 'mercy killer' when there's a need to euthanise a lizard or mouse or fish that the cat has bought in. Animals and death (mostly animal death) are both integral parts of my practice and I have a complex and deep spiritual connection to both. I've never been asked by the gods to sacrifice an animal to them, but I would not hesitate to do so if they did. Because I know that I can do so in a humane and low-stress manner. I don't consider the euthanasias I perform to be sacrifices, but each one is a spiritual event done with a certain level of ritual, whether it be with lethal injection, a knife or with nothing but my hands.

I don't think that you need to justify a humane animal sacrifice with 'it was a special occasion' type reasons either... most animal sacrifices experience a far less stressful death than animals in commercial slaughterhouses do. So frankly, if you were sacrificing every chicken dinner you ate, you'd be doing a better job at that animal's death than if you were buying your chicken at the store. I think that the stigma attached to animal sacrifice is naive and damaging, and I find it sad that people who believe in animal sacrifice feel the need to justify and explain. I have more respect for someone who can raise and humanely kill an animal by their own hand than someone who purports to be an 'animal lover' who is against animal cruelty yet parades around in animal products.

Whether or not the carcass is used afterwards... there is really very little reason that it shouldn't be used, because what we are normally offering the gods when we make an animal sacrifice is the energy of the death, not the energy of the carcass, if that makes sense. So the carcass being eaten afterwards is normally the most economical and respectful way to do it. Animal sacrifice has a VERY different impact and significance to us today than it did for our ancestors... today, unless you are a homesteader or self sufficient small holder, our animals are not our wealth or livelihood and are therefore not a true 'sacrifice' for most people. The context of what we are doing when we sacrifice an animal is not the same as the context in which it was done by our ancestors. This is where the difference between a 'sacrifice' and an 'offering' comes into play.

[SilverShadow]

Re: Sacrifices

I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this.

I just knew it, when I clicked on it. I was like "Don't do it to yourself, girl, you've had a long day and you don't need to do this". But I did click on it.

The intellectual part of me finds it interesting that there are comments like "oh I didn't kill someone's pet", like that somehow makes it all okay. Is it better because those people won't feel the loss of their companion? Or is it better because a dog would have feelings but a pig or a chicken would not? Or comments about 'humane' slaughter. While it's preferable to make someone's death as quick as possible, whether you break their neck, using a bolt gun on them or slit their throat....All methods seem violent to me and so therefore incapable by their very nature to be 'humane'.

The emotional part of me....wishes she could remember the poem by Plato, or some other Greek philosopher, who talked about the lengths people went to to make it seem as though the animals were okay with being killed to appease a God. If I could find that, I'm sure it would make a more eloquent point than me simply saying that this whole discussion just strangles me.

All I'll say to finish is this- I don't believe that a sacrifice of someone else's possession is a sacrifice, it's theft. The animals do not offer their lives, their lives are taken. There is no consent. We lose nothing out of taking their lives, but they lose everything. I don't see how that's a sacrifice that we've made, or even a sacrifice that they've made as it can't have been done willingly. It's just killing someone who would have preferred to have lived.

[anunitu]

Re: Sacrifices

One must consider real world culture. At the farmers market back when I was in San Francisco,one merchant sold live chickens,and would if you liked,kill it for you right there. In certain cultures there is still the kill it fresh is better than getting it frozen,or packaged. I think the concern with many people is they prefer to be insulated from the reality of what meat is,and where it comes from. I do eat meat,and I consider where it comes from. I could like many "Modern" people just think it grows in that package naturally. or is made by a machine...

In the way back,if you wanted meat,you raised it and killed it yourself..or had a farmer or a butcher do it.

I do not think I could be a complete vegie,I grew up as a meat eater...

[thalassa]

Re: Sacrifices

All I'll say to finish is this- I don't believe that a sacrifice of someone else's possession is a sacrifice, it's theft. The animals do not offer their lives, their lives are taken. There is no consent. We lose nothing out of taking their lives, but they lose everything. I don't see how that's a sacrifice that we've made, or even a sacrifice that they've made as it can't have been done willingly. It's just killing someone who would have preferred to have lived.

Are you a vegetarian or vegan?

(I know we have a few, but I honestly don't remember who is who)

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Sacrifices

This is really a big MEH for me.

If one wants to offer a critter to their god prior to killing and eating it, go for it. This is merely "blessing yer grub," the pagan equivalent of "Kosher." If it makes you feel good, so what? No harm in that, the animal would be dead anyway. I enjoyed a tasty chicken just last Monday, myself (which is what Thalassa was getting at, methinks).

If one believes that one's god wants blood sacrifices and kills an animal for that purpose, it looks to me like the justification of "I want to kill something, and I'll use my god as an excuse to do it," because, whatever one's god may or may not hypothetically want, one gets to chose whether one will do it or not - it is ALWAYS the person's choice to do or not do what a "god" wants.

To me, this looks like small scale what ISIL does on a larger scale. I, again, personally, find something psychologically ill about it, but, well, it's a chicken. If that chicken is a "meat bird," it barely qualifies a "living" in my book anyway, so...

Meh.

Now if somebody wants to go around snatching people's pets, or sacrificing other humans, that's a whole 'nother ball 'o wax.

[anunitu]

Re: Sacrifices

Really us just existing ends up killing something...wash your hands...kill some microbes. Eat plants...are they in some way to be considered alive? If you got to deep as to what is allowed to be eaten,the thing you kill might actually be you...from starvation...

[Noir]

Re: Sacrifices

I have sacrificed lambs and calves before. I purchase them from organic farms where I know the farmers and I'm certain they had a good life. I see it as blessing my food and reminder that life is in the blood and so easily can mine be shed without warning. As I have before stated in another thread, I offer the blood to my deities, and then eat the meat and use (almost) everything else that is inedible for ritual tools, crafts and planting; nothing goes to waste. I've always respected the lives of others that once breathed, even plants.

[thalassa]

Re: Sacrifices

If one wants to offer a critter to their god prior to killing and eating it, go for it. This is merely "blessing yer grub," the pagan equivalent of "Kosher." If it makes you feel good, so what? No harm in that, the animal would be dead anyway. I enjoyed a tasty chicken just last Monday, myself (which is what Thalassa was getting at, methinks).

Plus various parts of my family hunt. I don't hunt, though (as a person with a degree in biology with an emphsis in ecology and conservation biology) I fully support responsible hunting. Its not unusual among hunters to find people that thank the animal for its life. Heck, we do this with the meat we get from a local family farm--we thank the animal for its life, the people that raised for us, and the gods for the conditions that allow it to give us sustenance for us to prosper.

I don't see much of a leap of logic from thankfulness or faith to letting the gods share in that sustenance.

Life is built upon death. Period.

My philosophy has always been that you give life with humility and you take life with compassion--whether its a frog in a animal physiology class, the rat you feed our mouse, the kitty you have to put down, the deer you shoot to eat, the hamburger from McD's, or the fields full of mice that die in the slaughter of harvesting wheat for bread.

[anunitu]

Re: Sacrifices

There is an ongoing argument here in North-west NJ. There are bears in these parts,enough so that they sometimes show up in small towns and even small cities. The argument is about the annual bear hunt to glean the population down to help control the bear interaction with people. The fight is between conservationists who understand,to many bears,not enough wild food,so the bears come into towns for easy grub. Other side is cruelty to animals people,who btw as I have seen really do not understand what a wild animal is,it is not cute and cuddly,it is wild,and given a chance will eat even you. I love animals,but with that is the understanding that not all animals can be pets or should be.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Sacrifices

^^^After the building boom, there were lots of issues with coyotes, too. It's not really that there are "too many" animals, it's that we've taken away their territory. However, what's done is done; the homes are built, and balance must be kept accordingly. There was a red fox roaming my neighborhood once - it was pretty cool to see how he'd check for traffic before crossing the street to go back to the woods. He sat, turned his head both ways twice, then trotted off. Better than most kids do LOL

[Norse_Angel]

Re: Sacrifices

I feel the whole ideology of the live sacrifice is the giving of the energy of that living creature to the name of our Gods, which in turn, strengthens them within us. For every live sacrifice I have taken a part of, which includes pigs, chickens, rabbits, cats, and snakes, I have used very quick methods to bring about the sacrifice, and honestly, I have never felt a malicious pleasure from performing any of the rites. I feel it is a very peaceful and meaningful way of giving to my Gods. and just as one of the posts above, I tend to use every part I can of that sacrifice for other rituals. I've made jewelry and charms out of bone, compost and fertilizer out of inedible parts, and amazingly satisfying meals out of every cookable piece of meat.
And again, I want to point this out in particular, I do not use these sacrifices as a way to take anger or hate out onto animals. In no way do I feel any malicious, ugly, or angry pleasure during the rites. I do not torture, and I do not torment. I feel many who are against live sacrificing are very ilknowledged in the fundamental componentry of the actual traditions that guide us today. There was never a brute lust to kill in a ritual setting. Our ancestors were a lot more respectful of the lives that were offered to our Gods. I feel we must slowly attempt to bring down the walls of ignorance on such a sacred topic, and fill the minds of those who don't understand with first hand experiences.

[Rick]

Re: Sacrifices

Used to be a kindred that would go to the Oklahoma state prison and dedicate executed prisoners to the gods. So legal human sacrifice is still ideologically possible.