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thalassa
01 Dec 2015, 09:08
Yes? No? How much? What age?

DragonsFriend
01 Dec 2015, 09:35
Monetary rewards, yes; Allowances, no.

thalassa
01 Dec 2015, 09:55
Monetary rewards, yes; Allowances, no.

IMO, two words describing the same thing--giving kids money as a reward.

DragonsFriend
01 Dec 2015, 10:02
In my world rewards com from doing more than asked, while allowances are money for just being. Earning money is much healthier than gifts of money.

DanieMarie
01 Dec 2015, 13:07
I'll dish out some money for chores when they're younger, but when they're around 12 or so, I'll do what my parents did at that age. Make them write out a budget of their needs (including clothing for the year, school supplies, personal care products, going out with friends, etc), and then show them how to divide up the occasional costs into monthly costs. Then, I'll give them an allowance based on those costs, and they will have to buy everything themselves with that money. Clothes, shoes, school supplies, shampoo...everything. If they run out before the end of the month, too bad (unless it's something like toothpaste...then I might be a little easier on them). I know it sounds kind of insane, but this is how I learned about money, and I'm REALLY good with money now.

As for amount, I can't say. Even if I had kids tomorrow, the cost of inflation would greatly affect the cost of their expenses and it's hard to say where inflation will take us in 13-15 years.

Briton
01 Dec 2015, 13:26
I'm not a parent yet, so really I am idealizing, but before they're old enough to work, they will need you to pay for things for them. You may as well teach them to be responsible for money, so if there is an allowance based on what they need, it only comes when they've done certain things, ie chores or done their homework/assignments etc.

Shahaku
01 Dec 2015, 14:41
Yes. Giving kids money for doing their required chores can backfire. If/then money can teach them that everything they do deserves to be rewarded or some such. It decreases generosity. Doing things just because. A lot of what I've read says to give your kids an allowance so they learn about money, but keep that separate from the things they have to do, just because they have to be done, like chores. How much? I agree with Danie, whatever I would be dishing out anyway to pay for their needs, plus a little for spending/socializing. And pre/early teens.

DanieMarie
01 Dec 2015, 15:01
Yes. Giving kids money for doing their required chores can backfire. If/then money can teach them that everything they do deserves to be rewarded or some such. It decreases generosity. Doing things just because. A lot of what I've read says to give your kids an allowance so they learn about money, but keep that separate from the things they have to do, just because they have to be done, like chores. How much? I agree with Danie, whatever I would be dishing out anyway to pay for their needs, plus a little for spending/socializing. And pre/early teens.

Agreed. I think it's ok for a few special chores, but I don't like the idea of tying all chores (or even most of them) to money. My boyfriend also brought up a good point once that no one pays you to do housework when you're an adult, so it's best that they just learn that it's something that has to get done.

Herbert
01 Dec 2015, 15:37
I'm a teenager, which means I'm likely biased, but modern grading systems often allow for week by week grading reports, in each individual class (the system my school uses, oddly enough, is named ISIS), so why not base allowance on that? A dollar per weekly A, three quarters per weekly B, two quarters per C, and a quarter per D (or more, or less, or whatever)? It would provide tangible rewards for just going, after all (and being payed, even minuscule amounts, to go to school, generally leads to grade increases, when school systems implemented it).

I mean, some people think that being payed to go to school (in this case, in lieu of an allowance) teaches the wrong thing, but people don't work for free in the real world (and it certainly is work, at least for someone still developing).

DanieMarie
01 Dec 2015, 15:39
I really wouldn't. My parents never did, because in college no one is going to pay you for good academic performance, and in most cases in real life, no one is going to pay you any more for outstanding work performance (at least not immediately....you might get a promotion or a good year-end bonus, though). Also, they wanted me to get good grades for myself and not for the cash. As I am slowly morphing into my parents as I get older, I totally agree with them.

Herbert
01 Dec 2015, 15:46
It's less about rewarding them for outstanding performance, and more about rewarding them for just showing up, because that boosts performance. It could also be based on attendance, really.

Hawkfeathers
01 Dec 2015, 16:00
I think a modest allowance is a way of teaching them to budget for their smaller items, and not have to pester you every time they want some little thing. I used to get fifty cents a week when I was 10 years old.....back then, that bought wax lips, candy cigarettes, dill pickles, and stuff from the gumball machine, and that's what made my word go 'round.

DanieMarie
02 Dec 2015, 01:10
It's less about rewarding them for outstanding performance, and more about rewarding them for just showing up, because that boosts performance. It could also be based on attendance, really.

But showing up should be expected. You don't get rewarded just for showing up in life. That's the most basic life skill you can have.

thalassa
02 Dec 2015, 04:08
But showing up should be expected. You don't get rewarded just for showing up in life. That's the most basic life skill you can have.

Sure we do. I have a job. I get paid to go to work. As long as I am minimally competent and do my job, I get paid the same as if I bust my ***. In fact, if I bust my ***, I get MORE work with higher expectations, because I'm now held to a higher standard with shorter deadlines. I don't get more money or promotions for more productivity, I just get more work. For me, that isn't a problem... I am incapable of doing anything half-***ed. I'm not terribly ambitious, nor am I a perfectionist, but I can't stand to not have anything to do and I don't like sloppy jobs. If you are going to do something, it should be done right and preferably the first time. I believe in taking responsibility for one's actions, including mistakes. Unless someone is doing piecework, getting paid by the pound, etc, what you actually do has nothing to do with what you actually make, as long as you show up on time and go through the motions. And this is true in most job sectors, whether its fast food or the military. Trust me--I worked at McDonalds in high school, and I never got paid more for being faster or more accurate or having better customer service--your raise was based on whether or not you were buddy buddy with the manager. Not much different from making rank in the military--as long as I scored well on a test and my chain of command liked me, I was golden.

Hawkfeathers
02 Dec 2015, 05:24
^^^ Agree. I've literally been told "we don't pay you to think". Creativity/vision are a threat to the powers that be.

DanieMarie
02 Dec 2015, 06:32
Sure we do. I have a job. I get paid to go to work. As long as I am minimally competent and do my job, I get paid the same as if I bust my ***. In fact, if I bust my ***, I get MORE work with higher expectations, because I'm now held to a higher standard with shorter deadlines. I don't get more money or promotions for more productivity, I just get more work. For me, that isn't a problem... I am incapable of doing anything half-***ed. I'm not terribly ambitious, nor am I a perfectionist, but I can't stand to not have anything to do and I don't like sloppy jobs. If you are going to do something, it should be done right and preferably the first time. I believe in taking responsibility for one's actions, including mistakes. Unless someone is doing piecework, getting paid by the pound, etc, what you actually do has nothing to do with what you actually make, as long as you show up on time and go through the motions. And this is true in most job sectors, whether its fast food or the military. Trust me--I worked at McDonalds in high school, and I never got paid more for being faster or more accurate or having better customer service--your raise was based on whether or not you were buddy buddy with the manager. Not much different from making rank in the military--as long as I scored well on a test and my chain of command liked me, I was golden.

Although I suppose you're right, I still think that paying kids to go to school is problematic. "Showing up" isn't just a job thing, it's a life thing. There are all sorts of things you have to show up for that don't involve money, like college (which I guess involves money, if we mean PAYING money), clubs, church (if you go), family events, etc. School is one of those things that should be a given, in my opinion. I want my kids to go to school because they want to learn and want to build a future for themselves, not because I'm essentially bribing them to go. School is not a job.

thalassa
02 Dec 2015, 09:36
I want my kids to go to school because they want to learn and want to build a future for themselves, not because I'm essentially bribing them to go. School is not a job.

I think most people want their kids to go to school because they want to learn and build a future for themselves. But if there is anything I've learned as a parent, its that 1) parenting only gets you so far in influencing your children and 2) school is not the Mecca of learning for all children.

For some kids school IS a job (a job being work that you really just do because you have to). And lets be honest, you can learn anywhere. If anything, I'd say school kills the innate desire to learn in as many kids as it inspires...with most kids falling somewhere in the middle. I was a kid that was mostly great at school. My husband, not so much. One kid is good at school, the other not so much. Neither of my brothers are great at school, but one is better than the other when it comes to trying.

I believe in the intrinsic reward of learning (as does the Hubby). I just don't think that school is the place that it is best expressed or fostered for all children. Nor do I think school success really translates to life success. Sure, a good education helps, but there are plenty of PhD candidates working at Starbucks...I make more money than the girl in the office next to me that has a master's degree (I have more actual experience). My dad has an associates degree and still became a partner in an engineering firm--because he had experience, a good work ethic, and the big boss liked him.

If paying them to do a job they hate helps them get through the day, I'm a pragmatist (studies on paying kids for grades or to go to school are mixed, but actually seem to favor paying for attendance vs. paying for good grades/test scores, and tend to show gains when the programs are well designed, but are no panacea).

DanieMarie
02 Dec 2015, 11:45
I think most people want their kids to go to school because they want to learn and build a future for themselves. But if there is anything I've learned as a parent, its that 1) parenting only gets you so far in influencing your children and 2) school is not the Mecca of learning for all children.

For some kids school IS a job (a job being work that you really just do because you have to). And lets be honest, you can learn anywhere. If anything, I'd say school kills the innate desire to learn in as many kids as it inspires...with most kids falling somewhere in the middle. I was a kid that was mostly great at school. My husband, not so much. One kid is good at school, the other not so much. Neither of my brothers are great at school, but one is better than the other when it comes to trying.

I believe in the intrinsic reward of learning (as does the Hubby). I just don't think that school is the place that it is best expressed or fostered for all children. Nor do I think school success really translates to life success. Sure, a good education helps, but there are plenty of PhD candidates working at Starbucks...I make more money than the girl in the office next to me that has a master's degree (I have more actual experience). My dad has an associates degree and still became a partner in an engineering firm--because he had experience, a good work ethic, and the big boss liked him.

If paying them to do a job they hate helps them get through the day, I'm a pragmatist (studies on paying kids for grades or to go to school are mixed, but actually seem to favor paying for attendance vs. paying for good grades/test scores, and tend to show gains when the programs are well designed, but are no panacea).

I don't totally disagree with you. I just really dislike the idea of using money as an incentive to go to school. I'd rather somehow tie it to some other kind of success, like getting to do something they really want to do as a reward, or having a great year-end party to celebrate exam results, or something like that. I guess I'll have to see how things go when I actually have kids, though. I think part of the reason I'm so against it is because my parents were, and they told us about it a lot (we asked them a few times because some of our friends got money for passing tests and good report cards and stuff). That being said, they were HUGE on punishments for not doing well in school. I never got punished because I always had great grades and always tried, but my brother got grounded, had his computer taken away, got his TV privileges revoked, etc. It wasn't really about his grades...it was that he didn't really try.

B. de Corbin
02 Dec 2015, 11:55
I know a couple of kids I'd pay not to go to school.

- - - Updated - - -

I gave my kids an allowance because they needed money, and it was better to have a set sum than it was to dole out bits at a time.

I did not pay them for doing chores.

They were my kids, not my employees.

The allowance they got was for simply existing in the family, and they got it whether they did their work or not.

The chores were just a part of being in a family, and if they didn't do them, it was a problem for the whole family, because then other people had to do them, and they weren't happy about it.

Azvanna
03 Dec 2015, 03:58
^^^ Agree. I've literally been told "we don't pay you to think". Creativity/vision are a threat to the powers that be.

Me too!!

As for an allowance, I never had one but I never wanted for anything. However, I would have appreciated the learning skill that comes along with managing an income. So, maybe EJ will get a very small allowance one day. My first idea was to wait til he had an income from a job and then teach budgeting, but I think if he's earning his own money for the first time, he may not want to listen to me then. So maybe I could start early.

I liked your idea, Thalassa, of teaching resource management to your children particularly that example you gave a little while ago of giving your children only so much water to water the plants. I wonder how budgeting could be taught in a similar way.

Azvanna
03 Dec 2015, 03:59
The chores were just a part of being in a family, and if they didn't do them, it was a problem for the whole family, because then other people had to do them, and they weren't happy about it.

Agreed. This is very important for me to teach EJ.

Hickory67
04 Dec 2015, 05:22
Our biological kids didn't have allowances per se. We gave them opportunities to earn money when there was something they wanted that was beyond a certain monetary value. For example, when the Lord of the Rings movies came out, my son wanted a replica sword - so we'd give him money for helping around the house and he saved the $250-300 it cost (can't remember) himself. Fast forward to this year - he's just turned 18 and already owns his own car, pays for his own school books, and part of his tuition.

Our younger daughter is on the same track - she's a miser when she's got a goal.

Our adopted daughter came to us with an allowance from the foster care system. $20 a week and $100 a month clothing allowance. She can't save a dime to save her life. Once we adopted her we were no longer obligated to provide it to her - so we use that for school expenses, etc and but some back for eventual college expenses that she's unaware of.

Our other kids have college funds too, so we try to match them all now. Our son is in community college right now, so he's not touching that yet.

Medusa
04 Dec 2015, 23:37
*raises hand. Can I be real?
No allowance. Too poor. Anyone else?

Marradin
06 Dec 2015, 04:11
My parents only gave me money because both my older sister refused to do any Chores. So I was doing everything that the three of us should have been sharing most of the time. (Cleaning the Kitchen and bathrooms, cooking at least twice a week, mowing the lawn, feeding the pets, hanging out the laundry, putting the dishes in the dishwasher and putting them away when they were finished, washing the dogs, walking the dogs.) But my parents restricted what I could spend it on. I was allowed 2 PC games a year and that was it, but I was matched dollar for dollar on books I bought. I still collect way too many books. I think channeling what they can spend it on is wise. but unless they go above and beyond academically then no exceptions should be made.

Hawkfeathers
06 Dec 2015, 08:15
*raises hand. Can I be real?
No allowance. Too poor. Anyone else?

Not under my parent's rule, but I had a number of years in early adulthood where I couldn't give myself an allowance - it was just work/home. No movies, new clothes, extra driving, restaurants, etc.

DragonsFriend
06 Dec 2015, 08:27
Handing a child money just because they are your child breeds the expectation of handouts. Real life sucks - you have to work for what you get. You have things that you have to spend that money on before you get to buy the things you want. Then you have savings that you need for when things break, and after all the necessities are taken care of you get to spend what remains on the things you want.

This is why I own my home and property, I have to debt, and I can live comfortably doing the things I enjoy. I didn't get an allowance. I had to work for my money and it means something.

B. de Corbin
06 Dec 2015, 09:02
My tribe works in concert. We share, and take care of each other.

Hawkfeathers
06 Dec 2015, 09:40
Handing a child money just because they are your child breeds the expectation of handouts. Real life sucks - you have to work for what you get. You have things that you have to spend that money on before you get to buy the things you want. Then you have savings that you need for when things break, and after all the necessities are taken care of you get to spend what remains on the things you want.

This is why I own my home and property, I have to debt, and I can live comfortably doing the things I enjoy. I didn't get an allowance. I had to work for my money and it means something.

I don't own my home & have no debt because of the 50 cents a week candy money my parents gave me. I don't think it made any difference as far as that's concerned. I guess every case is different. There are plenty of jobs where people make "iron wages" - and I got myself stuck there for a while, decades ago. The ex made it worse. No more of any of those factors! :)

Hawkfeathers
06 Dec 2015, 12:52
^^^^ Sorry if that sounded confusing. I mean, I DO own my home etc. now, but it is NOT because of the allowance. I don't think in sentences and it's sometimes hard to write in them. Sorry.

Briton
06 Dec 2015, 13:48
I don't see harm in them being given allowance in exchange for some chores when they're too young to get a job. They're simple and mundane (the chores, that is) and teaches them that you can't get something for nothing. As they get older, they will have to do chores whether they like it or not as well as the job which earns them pocket money.

Personally I see no problem in financially helping your children at every opportunity, as long as they understand it is a favour and they are not entitled to it. I could stop at any moment, for any reason (makes me sound like an addict). As someone who deals primarily with familial ties, I believe the purpose in life is to give your genetic offspring the best chance, but that doesn't necessarily mean throwing money at them. It's a hard world, and they need to understand that there will always be those less fortunate than them and should help them where possible, but I will give my kids the best chance I can because life is hard and I don't owe it to anyone to deprive my kids for their kids' benefit. If my kids need help getting on the property ladder and I have the means to provide a deposit, you can bet I will lend it to them. Lend ​being the operative word here.

thalassa
06 Dec 2015, 14:25
I don't own my own home and I've been holding down a job since I was 14 with a work permit...

Vanli
06 Dec 2015, 15:29
I started getting an allowance when my school got us all to start a bank account when I was six or so ... kiddy saver account. I got seven bucks a fortnight, and at least five of that had to go into my account. Later, I started getting 20 bucks a fortnight, but I was expected to buy my own toiletries out of that, so it was more a matter of teaching me how to manage money.

Marradin
07 Dec 2015, 01:43
If my kids need help getting on the property ladder and I have the means to provide a deposit, you can bet I will lend it to them. Lend ​being the operative word here.

My parents were a little meaner than you are - I Had to get a mortgage offer from a bank before they'd help me buy a house - and I agreed to what they wonted because at least now my interest part of my payment goes to family and not some faceless corporation - and the interest rate is a little less. Basically My parents hold my mortgage instead of a bank. I currently own about 17-20% of my house. the Mortgage holder owns the rest. I had to get my own deposit together. and while I love my house it's a small cottage in a rural town - Hardly the most expensive house out there.

ThePaganMafia
07 Dec 2015, 03:36
I remember that time my gave me gave me $50 for the week....I knew then I was destined to welfare the rest of my life. If only my mom had been a Libertarian.

kalynraye
07 Dec 2015, 23:11
Handing a child money just because they are your child breeds the expectation of handouts. Real life sucks - you have to work for what you get. You have things that you have to spend that money on before you get to buy the things you want. Then you have savings that you need for when things break, and after all the necessities are taken care of you get to spend what remains on the things you want.

This is why I own my home and property, I have to debt, and I can live comfortably doing the things I enjoy. I didn't get an allowance. I had to work for my money and it means something.

I think your a 100% wrong. Giving children allowance doesn't breed expectation of handouts. Raising them to believe they deserve everything handed to them on a silver platter breeds expectation of handouts.

B. de Corbin
08 Dec 2015, 02:42
Reading through here I get the feeling that, even with those they love, some people suffer from an over abundance of theory, and an under-abundance of the ties that bind.

I agree with those who have pointed out that the link between an allowance at home and later performance on the job or in life is tenuous, at best. Yes, it is possible to spoil a kid and raise a real snot, but an allowance, in and of itself, does not do that.

That takes an attitude, and such an attitude comes from observation, testing, and the lack or quashing of empathy, not a few bucks in the pocket weekly.

thalassa
08 Dec 2015, 03:49
Reading through here I get the feeling that, even with those they love, some people suffer from an over abundance of theory, and an under-abundance of the ties that bind.

I agree with those who have pointed out that the link between an allowance at home and later performance on the job or in life is tenuous, at best. Yes, it is possible to spoil a kid and raise a real snot, but an allowance, in and of itself, does not do that.

That takes an attitude, and such an attitude comes from observation, testing, and the lack or quashing of empathy, not a few bucks in the pocket weekly.

This.

I don't own/not own a house, have/not have a college degree, or have/not have a job because I got/didn't get an allowance. I got paid for work done--things like shoveling the neighborhood sidewalks when it snowed and raking leaves in the fall, for trimming my grandpa's hedges in the spring, for babysitting and walking dogs. But I also got an allowance when I was my kids age. My parents bought me the stuff I needed (clothes for school, etc), and a little bit extra (books mostly), but gave me an allowance (whether I did my chores or not, though I mostly did them because they were my part of what had to be done) that I could spend on the little things I wanted (usually books or roller skating) or save for the bigger things I wanted. Sometimes, if I was saving for a bigger thing, they'd match what I saved. I usually used that money to go roller skating or for ice cream when I went downtown to the library on my bike. When I finally got a "real job" (aka a job with a pay check) at 14 (gotta love work permits), my dad sat down with me and an excel spreadsheet and helped me figure out a plan to save my money for the school canoeing trip I went on ever summer.

I might add that (anecdotal though it is) I had a roommate that was terrible with money. Her parents made her earn every penny of an allowance she ever had, excessively. She had to pay for everything, from field trips to new socks from her allowance. She made and/or thrifted everything she owned because she couldn't afford anything better (which is fine when you are doing it as a teenager because you have a funky personality or as an adult because you are saving money that you can better spend on something else or as a parent because you look really hard to find stuff that doesn't look like it came from a thrift store so your kids get made fun of...but its not fine when you are 12 because your parents are ****s). Heck, she even had to pay her parents back for the co-pay for medication. Now...I'm all for sitting your kids down with you and explaining a paycheck and having them pay bills with you so they understand how much something costs (my grandma would have me check her math on her check book when I was in middle school and my mom started giving me her paycheck stub and the monthly bills in high school to figure out a monthly budget for us), but making an 11 year old pay for their own asthma meds is insane. At 18, this girl left home and joined the military (despite getting several scholarship offers), and blew every paycheck she earned for about 10 years because she could, making up for her miser parents. And, I might add, she's not spoken to them since (obviously, this was just one of the problems they had as parents). Luckily (she just retired from the military) she has a really good job and slowed down on the spending after marrying someone that understands her issues (and also has a really good job, and an accountant).

I'm not great with money, but I'm not terrible either. Not because I had/didn't have an allowance, or because I have/didn't have parents that taught me the value of money...but because **** is expensive. I don't own a house because I refuse to pay 250K for a postage stamp yard and a cardboard box

anunitu
08 Dec 2015, 05:17
Growing up as a poor kid I did not get an allowance. If we wanted something,we went around collecting soda bottles(Construction sites were very good for that) also as Thal mentioned doing lawn work,or just cleaning for people. Some times washing cars(in the summer that was also FUN)

Spiny Norman
08 Dec 2015, 05:19
Allowances?! We could only dream of allowances.... ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo