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B. de Corbin
29 Jun 2016, 04:55
Behold, the witch hunts have begun.

Witness At Ted Cruz Hearing Accuses Congress’ Two Muslim Members Of Muslim Brotherhood Ties (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-muslim-brotherhood_us_5772b615e4b0352fed3e0372?cps=gravit y_2377_1848571892658001032)

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of a Muslim organization, or have you ever associated with anyone who is?

Hawkfeathers
29 Jun 2016, 05:59
"Associated with"? How would anyone know? I've probably associated with KKK members, Black Panther members, Mafia members, and who knows what else. It's not like you meet a person and they say, "Hi, nice to meet you, I'm a terrorist."

B. de Corbin
29 Jun 2016, 07:12
"Associated with"? How would anyone know? I've probably associated with KKK members, Black Panther members, Mafia members, and who knows what else. It's not like you meet a person and they say, "Hi, nice to meet you, I'm a terrorist."

That was McCarthy and the Commie purge. People had carreers and lives ruined for having Communist "associates." My fear is that our country seems to be aiming backward at that target, with a different enemy in the sights, and innocent bystanders in between.

Hawkfeathers
29 Jun 2016, 07:17
That was McCarthy and the Commie purge. People had carreers and lives ruined for having Communist "associates." My fear is that our country seems to be aiming backward at that target, with a different enemy in the sights, and innocent bystanders in between.

Yup.....ignorance is full of rumors, innuendo, etc.

Denarius
29 Jun 2016, 13:22
Here's a document that goes into detail (http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/275.pdf) about the ties that ISNA is alleged to have with Islamism and terrorist organizations, as well has radical Islam in general. It has a fair number of citations, where I would expect them to be, but I haven't really looked into them.

The connection the Congressmen in question have to the organization is based off attending events and things like that. Though it does make me wonder if a white congressman attending an event associated (even tenuously) with the KKK would written off so easily.

At any rate, this whole thing is just an accusation by a nobody. Hardly the return of McCarthy. Though if it was, well, the criticisms (http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html) of McCarthy are overblown (http://www.wnd.com/2000/02/4020/). Not the least of which being that a lot of the bad stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) people point out (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee) as McCarthyism, straight up, had nothing to do with McCarthy himself. (http://triblive.com/opinion/featuredcommentary/8253396-74/mccarthy-joe-communist)

thalassa
29 Jun 2016, 13:38
Here's a document that goes into detail (http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/275.pdf) about the ties that ISNA is alleged to have with Islamism and terrorist organizations, as well has radical Islam in general. It has a fair number of citations, where I would expect them to be, but I haven't really looked into them.


Steven Emerson is a well-known anti-Muslim nut with a long history of *making it up as he goes along*

The connection the Congressmen in question have to the organization is based off attending events and things like that. Though it does make me wonder if a white congressman attending an event associated (even tenuously) with the KKK would written off so easily.


Donald Trump was endorsed by the KKK and thought it was a-OK for several days....and his supporters were cool with that.



At any rate, this whole thing is just an accusation by a nobody. Hardly the return of McCarthy.
It was vetted Congressional testimony by a US senator, so...this is how it starts.

Though if it was, well, the criticisms (http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html) of McCarthy are overblown (http://www.wnd.com/2000/02/4020/). Not the least of which being that a lot of the bad stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) people point out (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee) as McCarthyism, straight up, had nothing to do with McCarthy himself. (http://triblive.com/opinion/featuredcommentary/8253396-74/mccarthy-joe-communist)

Tell that to the people who got screwed out of their livelihood. I'm a bit surprised actually, most libertarians I know are skeeved off about the overhead here.

Denarius
29 Jun 2016, 14:15
Donald Trump was endorsed by the KKK and thought it was a-OK for several days....and his supporters were cool with that.

Keyword there being supporters.


It was vetted Congressional testimony by a US senator

Lyin' Ted. :cool:


most libertarians I know are skeeved off about the overhead here.

I was just pointing out that McCarthy basically turned into a scapegoat for that entire era, and posted a document that I felt was interesting and relevant. Even made a point to qualify both.

thalassa
29 Jun 2016, 15:18
Keyword there being [I]supporters.



Considering his supporters are enough people to have him as the presumptive Republican nominee for the Highest office in the land, that's not an insubstantial segment of the population.

B. de Corbin
29 Jun 2016, 18:15
At any rate, this whole thing is just an accusation by a nobody. Hardly the return of McCarthy.

Nope. But is is where it begins.


Though if it was, well, the criticisms (http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html) of McCarthy are overblown (http://www.wnd.com/2000/02/4020/). Not the least of which being that a lot of the bad stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) people point out (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee) as McCarthyism, straight up, had nothing to do with McCarthy himself. (http://triblive.com/opinion/featuredcommentary/8253396-74/mccarthy-joe-communist)

Do you ever read history written by actual historians, or are actual historians just tools?

Denarius
29 Jun 2016, 18:57
Do you ever read history written by actual historians, or are actual historians just tools?

"Actual" historian. I am a bit skeptical of authority, elitism, and the popular narrative. That should be pretty obvious by now.

If an argument is well made and supported, it is just as valid as the same from someone with a degree.

Though, yes, I do actually read about history. Though I much prefer reading things written by historical figures, rather than about historical figures. Coming to my own conclusions.

Edit: I will admit that a lot of historians do a good job of providing and preserving context and evidence.

ThePaganMafia
29 Jun 2016, 21:59
You are skeptical of people with degrees, folks who have spent years working to become academically qualified in their field, but not skeptical when one of your cited sources is a website that also promotes End Times nonsense(WND)?

Denarius
29 Jun 2016, 22:54
Do you have a problem with the article itself? I've let y'all use HuffPo as a source without criticizing it, when that website has put into words some of the most disgusting and wrongheaded trash I've ever seen. (That should tell you something, because I spend a lot of time on 4chan.)

Because that isn't actually addressing the validity of the article, or the argument it is supporting, in any meaningful way.

ThePaganMafia
30 Jun 2016, 06:39
Do you have a problem with the article itself? I've let y'all use HuffPo as a source without criticizing it, when that website has put into words some of the most disgusting and wrongheaded trash I've ever seen. (That should tell you something, because I spend a lot of time on 4chan.)

Because that isn't actually addressing the validity of the article, or the argument it is supporting, in any meaningful way.

I don't read or source Huffpost.

But, on validity the only source that article provides for the person they are quoting is another heavily biased Right Wing website-not even a specific article, just the website's main page.

DragonsFriend
30 Jun 2016, 10:08
McCarthy-ism is alive and well within both sides of political blurbs. Neither side accepts anything that supports the other sides argument and both tend to eventually call in question the intelligence, compassion or maturity of the other.