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B. de Corbin
10 Feb 2017, 08:40
Why imagine a good god when it makes just as much sense to imagine an evil one?


https://youtu.be/WiufsmxiUiU

Dumuzi
10 Feb 2017, 09:09
Sadly, a lot of people don't think about that argument deep enough. As starters, the argument cannot be used to negate the existence of God, it only discusses the reasons for the existence of evil and the existence of God at the same time.

The second mistake is that the argument begins with "If there is a God..." but it doesn't use all the other facts that come with and are associated with God. It's a straw-man argument at best. In other words, if you are going to assume there is a God, then you have to put into consideration everything that comes with it, and not pick and choose parts to build a weak image that can easily be attacked.

If there is a God then he is all wise and all knowing. If there is a God then there is judgement day. If there is a God then all that's been taken for you will be returned. If there is a God then the wronged ones will be compensated. If there is a God the wronged will be content and satisfied with what they will be given. If there is a God the wrong ones will be punished. And so on.

But all of this is really secondary if you really, really think about it, like I said before. The argument doesn't really discuss if God exists or not. So before going into is god good or evil, shouldn't we first be concerned with, is there a god or not? How can we know for sure? And if there is a God, how can we actually say what attributes this god has?

That's the real question people should be thinking about, before moving to the other question. But that's just my opinion :)

B. de Corbin
10 Feb 2017, 09:34
The video actually dealt with the idea that a (the) supreme being is "good," and the lack of evidence for such a claim, the general concept of the major religions that god is good, and the way in which the "evidence" that is summoned to support such a belief doesn't - because the exact same "evidence" also supports the opposite point of view.

That particular video is about logical and/or rational thinking (it is entirely possible to apply logic to imaginary situations - it is one of the golden virtues of logic). It supports a solipsistic word view rather than an atheist worldview.

I don't think it was intended as atheist persuasion, or, at least, not as a stand alone argument.


In other words, if you are going to assume there is a God, then you have to put into consideration everything that comes with it, and not pick and choose parts to build a weak image that can easily be attacked.

I don't think that was really a straw man argument. It dealt with one issue, and only one issue, because it wasn't intended as a major opus of proof.

Dumuzi
10 Feb 2017, 10:10
What does solipsistic mean? Sorry if it's a stupid question :D


The video actually dealt with the idea that a (the) supreme being is "good," and the lack of evidence for such a claim

That's also what I think is a straw-man argument. No one in that argument is trying to proof that god is good, that's what the speaker in the video is being illogical about. It is simply an explanation, one of many, as to why a good god could exist while also evil exists. Can the same explanation be used for an evil god existing while good also exists? Sure. Can it also be used to explain the existence of a neutral god? Yep. Can it also be used to explain a powerless but good god? Of course.

But the speaker is failing to understand this. People are asked to offer an explanation, and that's what they offer. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a proof that god is good, nor is it intended as such. But the speaker still attacks it as such, because it's easier than attacking the actual argument for the existence of god.

B. de Corbin
10 Feb 2017, 11:36
But the speaker is failing to understand this. People are asked to offer an explanation, and that's what they offer. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a proof that god is good, nor is it intended as such. But the speaker still attacks it as such, because it's easier than attacking the actual argument for the existence of god.

Well, we'll disagree on this - I see it as simply a limited discussion of a limited issue that isn't intended to be evidence of a larger truth. Just that people tend to conceive of a god that matches their hopes (a good god, rather than a evil god).

Solipsism is the category of philosophy that says "Because we are limited by our instruments of perception (ears, eyes, tongue, skin, nose, and brain), and the way they work ("sound" is a vibration in the air, we "hear" it because of the way our ears function. If our ears functioned differently we could smell sound, perhaps), and the tools we construct are based on and limited like our senses, we can't be entirely sure that things actually are the way they seem to be. The best we can do is try for an approximate understanding."

When applied to religion, it looks like a form of agnosticism.

MaskedOne
10 Feb 2017, 11:44
Benjamin Franklin would answer "Beer".

My answer is "Pizza".

Dumuzi
10 Feb 2017, 11:46
Good point!

And also...



Solipsism is the category of philosophy that says "Because we are limited by our instruments of perception (ears, eyes, tongue, skin, nose, and brain), and the way they work ("sound" is a vibration in the air, we "hear" it because of the way our ears function. If our ears functioned differently we could smell sound, perhaps), and the tools we construct are based on and limited like our senses, we can't be entirely sure that things actually are the way they seem to be. The best we can do is try for an approximate understanding."

When applied to religion, it looks like a form of agnosticism.

Ah I think I get it now, thanks for taking the time to explain that for me :)

Hawkfeathers
10 Feb 2017, 11:55
Benjamin Franklin would answer "Beer".

My answer is "Pizza".

I agree with your answer!

anunitu
10 Feb 2017, 11:58
I live with the idea that God is a fiction,BUT I also live with the unstated thought that I will be very happily surprised if when I die my belief is proven wrong,and the "Loving" god
shows up and hands me a refreshing beverage and a tasty burger. Kind of like I am playing roulette and putting all my "Faith" on double Zero for a long shot.

Place your bets folks........

B. de Corbin
10 Feb 2017, 13:14
Pascal's wager...

Medusa
10 Feb 2017, 15:26
People believe and manifest that belief according to the light/darkness of their very being.

The universe don't give an eff.

There is no good or evil god. because good and evil are a man made creation.

And if you want a good or evil god..you (man) create it. And they did.

But the universe still don't give an eff.

I mean other than a human, what other thing in the universe has a good/evil anything?

nothing. The answer is nothing.


and pizza!

B. de Corbin
10 Feb 2017, 19:32
Cheese has good and evil.

The hard, aged cheeses, like Assiago and Parmisian are the very embodyment of good, while those wierd chocolate flavored cheese are clearly evil.

American slices in plastic wrap are decadent, but not inherently evil, although soft cheeses, like Brie, are good-hearted, but prone to sin.

I actually have an entire theology of cheese...

Heka
10 Feb 2017, 20:24
Benjamin Franklin would answer "Beer".

My answer is "Pizza".

Beer for me plz

Medusa
10 Feb 2017, 21:16
Cheese has good and evil.

The hard, aged cheeses, like Assiago and Parmisian are the very embodyment of good, while those wierd chocolate flavored cheese are clearly evil.

American slices in plastic wrap are decadent, but not inherently evil, although soft cheeses, like Brie, are good-hearted, but prone to sin.

I actually have an entire theology of cheese...
When I was younger I used to eat slices of cheese...in the plastic. I would push out a little piece through the plastic so it would come out smushy. That was pure goodness.


evil is hours later when it turns to toots!

Heka
11 Feb 2017, 01:18
When I was younger I used to eat slices of cheese...in the plastic. I would push out a little piece through the plastic so it would come out smushy. That was pure goodness.

evil is hours later when it turns to toots!

No, peeling the cheese is half the fun!!

/derail

Hawkfeathers
11 Feb 2017, 09:20
I'm such a cheese weezer it's not even funny. I think I could live on it.

Bartmanhomer
11 Feb 2017, 18:44
The title does sound a bit misleading.

saura
08 Mar 2017, 07:58
God is both good and evil.

B. de Corbin
08 Mar 2017, 08:39
God is the lox, the bagel, and the cream cheese; the plate and the knife, and the digestive juices.

Medusa
08 Mar 2017, 12:53
What if God was one of us?..........


just a stranger on the buuuuuus...........

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 12:55
Oh no,yet another question with no answer but MAYBE.....ya think???

- - - Updated - - -

I SMELL CHEESE coming from yon Church.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Heka
08 Mar 2017, 13:07
My honest answer is probably "god is neither". If God is like really God, i dont think it gives a beep.

🧀🧀🧀