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Bartmanhomer
28 Feb 2017, 12:35
Ok since Juniper suggest that I should continue with this topic. I'm going to say that I'm 110% against this horrible festival. First off this is what I think. Is cruel and evil that festival like this hasn't stop this at all. I don't care if you don't think that anything wrong with torturing dogs and devour it is ok. Well I don't. What's your opinions on this topic? :mad:

Medusa
28 Feb 2017, 14:36
I don't like the idea of eating dog.

Buuuuuut.....we have bbq festivals here where half a side of cow and whole pigs are on a bbq grate.


I live in a glass house.


I cannot throw any stones.

Bartmanhomer
28 Feb 2017, 15:04
I don't like the idea of eating dog.

Buuuuuut.....we have bbq festivals here where half a side of cow and whole pigs are on a bbq grate.


I live in a glass house.


I cannot throw any stones.

Me either. I can eat any type of meat as long if it isn't a household pets and vermin. :mad:

Heka
28 Feb 2017, 19:20
Me either. I can eat any type of meat as long if it isn't a household pets and vermin. :mad:

I have friends who have sheep, goats, chickens and pigs as household pets. Do you eat them?

Bartmanhomer
28 Feb 2017, 19:34
I have friends who have sheep, goats, chickens and pigs as household pets. Do you eat them?

Well I do eat chickens, pigs, and sheep. I never eat glat before in my life.

Hawkfeathers
28 Feb 2017, 20:13
I had goat meat at a Mexican restaurant in Texas. It was good! I don't eat anything I keep as a companion. Those Cornish Game Hens are about the size of Buddy and sort of bother me LOL

Medusa
28 Feb 2017, 21:02
My nana would always cook a goat head on the stove. Freaked me out seeing that eyeball poking out the top of the lid. She also ate rabbits.

But goat cheese is a ok!

anunitu
28 Feb 2017, 22:50
What I do think is that come the apocalypse,one "Might" begin eyeing Mister paddles with a different idea when the canned food has run out,and the veggies are going out of season.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/media-boat-lifeboats-boaters-surviving-cannibals-cgon310_low.jpg

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https://youtu.be/1xuSob6PAZc

Bartmanhomer
01 Mar 2017, 05:49
OK I should have mention about common household pets not just household pets.

Dumuzi
01 Mar 2017, 06:55
Bartmanhomer, I'd eat you with mashed potatoes and a salad after you die if it wasn't against my religion and illegal.

Meat is meat.

anubisa
01 Mar 2017, 06:57
I would rather starve than eat a dog, cat, or any other household pet. I am a meat eater and my Granny has a farm and has cows which are not for meat consumption. If I did have cows, chickens, goats, etc... for pets I would not eat them because like dogs you form a connection with them. I would still eat meat, but definitely not my pets.

Bartmanhomer
01 Mar 2017, 07:11
Bartmanhomer, I'd eat you with mashed potatoes and a salad after you die if it wasn't against my religion and illegal.

Meat is meat.

Yeah and some meats aren't meant to be eaten and to be taken care as pets.

B. de Corbin
01 Mar 2017, 07:46
My self... If I thought about it much I wouldn't eat any meat at all. The only way I eat meat is by pretending it comes from Walmart.

Heka
01 Mar 2017, 13:57
Well I do eat chickens, pigs, and sheep. I never eat glat before in my life.

So who are you to decide what constitutes "house hold pets"?

Heka
01 Mar 2017, 13:58
OK I should have mention about common household pets not just household pets.

Chickens, goat, pigs and sheep are common in Australia. I also know people who keep kangaroos as pets. And you can buy it at the local store. Is it ok to eat your national emblem?

Heka
01 Mar 2017, 14:00
Yeah and some meats aren't meant to be eaten and to be taken care as pets.

In India cow isn't meant to be eaten. Does that mean its ok to eat cow?

anubisa
01 Mar 2017, 14:29
In India cow isn't meant to be eaten. Does that mean its ok to eat cow?

I think there can be a lot of contributing factors as well. Like I grew up eating meat in my family. It's natural for me to eat meat. I think that family, where you grow up, and other contributing factors can be a part of it. But like I said, I'd rather starve than eat a domestic animal.

Shahaku
01 Mar 2017, 17:10
So, after brief research, I can agree that it is a barbaric practice, but not because it's dogs. The thought of eating dogs is sickening to me (that being said I'm vegetarian anyway). But it's a cultural thing. Eating cats and dogs isn't a cultural taboo there. The problem lies in the fact that the animals are often brutally murdered, apparently publicly, and sometimes stolen from loving families. And a majority of the population, albiet a small one, is against the practice. That isn't acceptable.

Heka
01 Mar 2017, 17:53
I think there can be a lot of contributing factors as well. Like I grew up eating meat in my family. It's natural for me to eat meat. I think that family, where you grow up, and other contributing factors can be a part of it. But like I said, I'd rather starve than eat a domestic animal.

Course it can. There's heaps of contributing factors to your diet, eating meat or not.

I would probably eat meat rather than starve. But I mean like desert island starve.

anunitu
01 Mar 2017, 18:46
I wonder how people would be if I had a pet Cockroach...if it is MY pet,no one should ever try to kill it or anything meant to hurt it,Right?
People have much different thoughts about a cockroach,might be culture,might just be the hee bee geebies. And does my position allow me to berate people who would smash them or poison them even though I find that action offensive. Everyone has things they hate,and others might consider that hate objectionable,and all of us being human may tend to go to war over small differences in culture. Because as I mentioned before...humans are a minefield...Watch your step please.

Bartmanhomer
01 Mar 2017, 19:23
Chickens, goat, pigs and sheep are common in Australia. I also know people who keep kangaroos as pets. And you can buy it at the local store. Is it ok to eat your national emblem?

Well I live in USA and the common household pet is dogs and cats.

monsno_leedra
01 Mar 2017, 19:48
Well I live in USA and the common household pet is dogs and cats.

That BMH is to your perspective only. Pot Bellied pigs are a pretty common pet for instance. Spider Monkey's are rather common as pets as well and knew more than a few who had them, including one of my aunts who always warned us kids to leave hers alone.

The fact you live in New York city may limit the variety of "pets" you routinely encounter. Where I live dogs are just as likely to be hunting dogs and around the home as pets if not more likely to be hunting dogs. A pet dog might also be a field dog and often used to protect herd animals and be left outside or stay in barns, out buildings, etc but still be seen as both a pet and a working animal. To a degree the same could be said of cats to keep rodent populations down, though feral populations might be destroyed without hesitation.

The idea of what is a common pet differs quite a bit depending upon whether one is city, rural, country and what region of the country. Heck one could argue it even depends upon the legal definition of wild or domesticated as I've seen more than a few so called "Wild" animals that people recognized as pets but legally they would be destroyed as they are considered as wild. One of the issues with feeding wild animals, especially young ones, and having them get used to human scents and accepting food from us. But that is a different issue.

Personally I think you have two separate issues here and you are not separating them. There is the matter of eating meat regardless of which type of animal it comes from. Then there is the issue of how the animal is killed to obtain that meat. Eating the animal I have no issue with. How it is killed that I do and try to influence that process when and how I can. A quick death and as painless as possible should in my opinion be the desired goal. A method that seeks to inflict long term suffering, agony and brutality I do not think is appropriate. Especially one that seeks to cause a long drawn out death process.

But as I said as to which type of meat different strokes for different folks.

anunitu
01 Mar 2017, 21:29
I was a volunteer at a soup kitchen back in SF,and someone had a mouse trapped by a "Sticky" trap. They tossed the still living mouse into a trash can. I fished it out,and killed it with my knife. I got all kinds of grief for being so cruel,how could I be so unfeeling just stabbing the mouse to death rather letting it starve to death as was the natural, out of sight way of dealing with bothersome vermin.....

So,now tell me how well we here in America treat living things(do NOT read up on the meat culture here in America,never ask about breeding chickens in factory farms,or pigs,or cows)

It "Might" make you stop eating meat forever.

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Well I live in USA and the common household pet is dogs and cats.

You "Might" look up the term "Egg sucking dog"

Johnny Cash doing "Egg sucking Dog"

https://youtu.be/vYNK8A_bXwA

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Egg Sucking Dog meaning from the urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=egg-sucking%20dog)

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Country folks seem to have had a less fond idea about Dogs and Cats on a farm.

Recognize that working farm dogs and cats are not pets
(https://www.change.org/p/hendricks-county-board-of-zoning-appeals-recognize-that-working-farm-dogs-and-cats-are-not-pets)

monsno_leedra
01 Mar 2017, 21:43
Starvation traps suck. We've used those sticky traps but once a mouse is caught we finish it off right away so it doesn't suffer. We try the catch and release traps as much as possible but they seem to work for a short time then stop. Living in the country we get lots of field mice, especially when it starts getting onto winter. Don't mind them to much in the out buildings and such but in the house where they get in the pantries and such can't have that. The out buildings are not to bad except they also draw in the snakes which black snakes aren't to bad but also draws in some of the poison ones as well and that can't have.

Lucky we have a number of feral cats in the area and the smaller predator foxes, bobcats and such keep the stuff from the forest and fields down pretty much along with our avian raptors.

I guess for me the barbaric nature people keep going on about doesn't really bother me since I live with nature pretty much and see nature first hand. Man can be cruel but nature is cruel and does some really wicked stuff. People in my opinion like to fall back on the they are civilized and such but forget we're simply predators ourselves and it's in our nature. The civilized a life they think they have the more people tend to find fought. Yet realistically the closer they are to being willing to to slaughter and be un-civilized themselves they are.

I recall being in Odessa in the Ukraine and speaking to a mother who put her 12 and 14 year old daughter out as prostitutes. She didn't want to but the economy had fallen, their social position had gone to nothing and they were struggling to survive and doing all they could to get by. A mighty fall from the position they held before it all went down. Most of what they ate came in from what her daughters earned on their backs. There was a fleet exercise and a lot of ships in port at the time and her daughters were competing with all the prostitutes brought in from all over the region. Never forgot it, ended up with a mother asking me why I didn't want her 12 year old daughter and all it would cost me was about 50 dollars and I could do anything I wanted. That was around 1997.

Guess it's stuff like that is why I tend not to get upset or worry about what people eat meat wise overseas or if it was a pet in the US. That or even really take certain rituals / ceremonies to serious even if they could be seen as barbaric. Yeah it could be perhaps less painful for the animal being used for the ritual feast but that's about it.

Sean R. R.
01 Mar 2017, 23:13
Wow what a can of worms.

These Yulin dogs are bred for they meat. Their lives and purpose have been determined by the humans who brood them. Just as we breed certain cow species to make milk, and some to make meat. Like we breed certain dog species together to make better breeds for different purposes: hunting, companionship, security, handicap aid.

We make animals serve us, as mere tools of nature, as we have done with everything else. And it will go on until the end of humankind.

Medusa
01 Mar 2017, 23:41
Well, well, well...the luxury of the non starving. It's nice, isn't it? We all get to pick and choose just which food we want to eat. What a wonderfu....eh. Eff it.

We all eat bumble bee vomit. Suck it up.

anunitu
01 Mar 2017, 23:47
True is true...A lot of things we eat we seldom ask where it comes from. That goose liver thing,where they force the goose to eat till its liver bursts,Pate Foie gras

Or caves liver,killing a calf(fatted I guess) as in the prodigal son and boiled alive Crab and lobster...Humans are not above a little torture to spice their food..

Bartmanhomer
02 Mar 2017, 13:04
That BMH is to your perspective only. Pot Bellied pigs are a pretty common pet for instance. Spider Monkey's are rather common as pets as well and knew more than a few who had them, including one of my aunts who always warned us kids to leave hers alone.

The fact you live in New York city may limit the variety of "pets" you routinely encounter. Where I live dogs are just as likely to be hunting dogs and around the home as pets if not more likely to be hunting dogs. A pet dog might also be a field dog and often used to protect herd animals and be left outside or stay in barns, out buildings, etc but still be seen as both a pet and a working animal. To a degree the same could be said of cats to keep rodent populations down, though feral populations might be destroyed without hesitation.

The idea of what is a common pet differs quite a bit depending upon whether one is city, rural, country and what region of the country. Heck one could argue it even depends upon the legal definition of wild or domesticated as I've seen more than a few so called "Wild" animals that people recognized as pets but legally they would be destroyed as they are considered as wild. One of the issues with feeding wild animals, especially young ones, and having them get used to human scents and accepting food from us. But that is a different issue.

Personally I think you have two separate issues here and you are not separating them. There is the matter of eating meat regardless of which type of animal it comes from. Then there is the issue of how the animal is killed to obtain that meat. Eating the animal I have no issue with. How it is killed that I do and try to influence that process when and how I can. A quick death and as painless as possible should in my opinion be the desired goal. A method that seeks to inflict long term suffering, agony and brutality I do not think is appropriate. Especially one that seeks to cause a long drawn out death process.

But as I said as to which type of meat different strokes for different folks.

Ok so maybe the variety of animals are considered housepets as well. :mad:

Chessa
03 Mar 2017, 19:22
Our goats at home are more like dogs than our dogs are. Even though we do eat them (we actually don't have any at the moment, since my sister got married around the same time I graduated high school... you figure out the rest) we send them to a butcher to take care of it. Even my real-men-don't-have-feelings dad can't bring himself to kill what is basically an edible pet.

As far as this actual festival, I've heard of protests from the locals, and that the number of dogs eaten has fallen dramatically. With any luck, we'll see the end of this festival, or at least the humane treatment of the animals (and no more stealing pets) before the mid century.Our goats at home are more like dogs than our dogs are. Even though we do eat them (we actually don't have any at the moment, since my sister got married around the same time I graduated high school... you figure out the rest) we send them to a butcher to take care of it. Even my real-men-don't-have-feelings dad can't bring himself to kill what is basically an edible pet.

As far as this actual festival, I've heard of protests from the locals, and that the number of dogs eaten has fallen dramatically. With any luck, we'll see the end of this festival, or at least the humane treatment of the animals (and no more stealing pets) before the mid century.

anunitu
03 Mar 2017, 21:05
I was watching this I guess "reality show" kinda like survivor,where this group of people had to live as their ancestors had for a period of time. Farming and no modern goodies..but when it came to slaughtering the animals for food,NO ONE in the group could do the deed,and they had to have an outside Butcher slaughter the animals...so it seems we have traveled a LONG way from our brutish past,and now are so civilized that we can not watch as our meat is prepared for us.

Good,Bad? who really knows,at some time they will grow our chow in a Petri dish

Brave new World indeed...

Heka
04 Mar 2017, 03:57
Well I live in USA and the common household pet is dogs and cats.

See, this is the problem. You are only concerned with YOURSELF and YOUR world view. You are making decisions about what is ok and not ok for other people based on YOUR own ideas. Open your mind. See the bigger picture. Take on a different view point. Stop making decisions for OTHER people.

Bartmanhomer
04 Mar 2017, 11:05
See, this is the problem. You are only concerned with YOURSELF and YOUR world view. You are making decisions about what is ok and not ok for other people based on YOUR own ideas. Open your mind. See the bigger picture. Take on a different view point. Stop making decisions for OTHER people.


I am being open. I just don't agree of what thet're doing. :mad:

DanieMarie
05 Mar 2017, 05:08
So, after brief research, I can agree that it is a barbaric practice, but not because it's dogs. The thought of eating dogs is sickening to me (that being said I'm vegetarian anyway). But it's a cultural thing. Eating cats and dogs isn't a cultural taboo there. The problem lies in the fact that the animals are often brutally murdered, apparently publicly, and sometimes stolen from loving families. And a majority of the population, albiet a small one, is against the practice. That isn't acceptable.

I do agree with this. However, animal cruelty in China extends far beyond this practice. Far, far beyond. I think we'd find a lot of standards in things like raising livestock and testing on animals (which is required in China for ALL cosmetic and household products) totally barbaric. None of this is going to change unless they change how they see animals, and we can't make them do that. We can try to convince them to change, but we can't -make- them do it.

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Well I live in USA and the common household pet is dogs and cats.

Rabbits are also common household pets in the US and Canada. They are in Europe, too. We still eat them in Germany.

Bartmanhomer
05 Mar 2017, 06:05
I do agree with this. However, animal cruelty in China extends far beyond this practice. Far, far beyond. I think we'd find a lot of standards in things like raising livestock and testing on animals (which is required in China for ALL cosmetic and household products) totally barbaric. None of this is going to change unless they change how they see animals, and we can't make them do that. We can try to convince them to change, but we can't -make- them do it.

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Rabbits are also common household pets in the US and Canada. They are in Europe, too. We still eat them in Germany.

Oh yeah. I forgot about rabbits. But still I'll never eat a pet. :mad:

anunitu
05 Mar 2017, 10:48
There was a case where a woman died,and her pets ate her...

Story here. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391223/Janet-Veal-56-gnawed-eaten-CATS-kitchen-floor-died.html)

Heka
05 Mar 2017, 14:19
I am being open. I just don't agree of what thet're doing. :mad:

And no one disagrees with you on the Yulin thing. The debate here is stemming from your opinions on what others can and can't eat. You eat whatever you want. People may disagree with your logic and thats ok too. But don't keep getting :mad: at other peoples dietary choices.

Bartmanhomer
05 Mar 2017, 17:02
And no one disagrees with you on the Yulin thing. The debate here is stemming from your opinions on what others can and can't eat. You eat whatever you want. People may disagree with your logic and thats ok too. But don't keep getting :mad: at other peoples dietary choices.

Look if you want to eat dog, cat, rabbit or whatever, do what you want. Just leave me out of this! :mad:

anunitu
05 Mar 2017, 17:16
Looks very much like a poutie face,I believe you started this thread...so just say,the thread perhaps should be ended...not my call

Bartmanhomer
05 Mar 2017, 17:44
Looks very much like a poutie face,I believe you started this thread...so just say,the thread perhaps should be ended...not my call

Whatever. >:(

Heka
05 Mar 2017, 20:03
Look if you want to eat dog, cat, rabbit or whatever, do what you want. Just leave me out of this! :mad:

Personally I don't eat any animals because I don't think it's ever ok.

But back to you, hard to leave you out of your own thread. You started this conversation. We're all here engaging in a bit of distractive debate

Bartmanhomer
05 Mar 2017, 20:06
Personally I don't eat any animals because I don't think it's ever ok.

But back to you, hard to leave you out of your own thread. You started this conversation. We're all here engaging in a bit of distractive debate

Do you have any point at all. Because this whole argument or debate isn't getting anywhere.

anunitu
05 Mar 2017, 20:52
Personally I don't eat any animals because I don't think it's ever ok.

But back to you, hard to leave you out of your own thread. You started this conversation. We're all here engaging in a bit of distractive debate

Good for you Heka,to be able to not eat meat. Having been brought up as a meat eater,it would be so very hard for me to NOT eat meat..My Daughter is Vegi..as is her Mother,and when I was married I tried to also be vegi..it did not really work as I munch on pork sausage as I type this...

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As an aside,even as a dedicated meat eater,THIS thing from Taco Bell is way over the line.
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-01/11/17/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/sub-buzz-20295-1484172610-1.jpg?resize=625:417&no-auto

Almost as bad(close) to the Chicken buns for a burger

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/07/article-1264166-0908E346000005DC-537_468x321.jpg

I have never been THAT much of a meat eater...

Heka
05 Mar 2017, 23:32
Do you have any point at all. Because this whole argument or debate isn't getting anywhere.

I've said my point a few times, and so have a bunch of others. I totally agree this isn't going anywhere.

Heka
05 Mar 2017, 23:34
Good for you Heka,to be able to not eat meat. Having been brought up as a meat eater,it would be so very hard for me to NOT eat meat..My Daughter is Vegi..as is her Mother,and when I was married I tried to also be vegi..it did not really work as I munch on pork sausage as I type this...

I was raised as a meat eater too Anu, I think it comes down to you as an individual. It is difficult to switch. I made my switch slowly, over 18 months. Bit when you find something that is harder to do, ie eat meat with a good conscious, not eating meat is easier.

Medusa
05 Mar 2017, 23:46
I was raised with chickens when I was younger. We ate them. Then later in life we ate a cow for a reunion. Like went to the ranch in Arizona. Dug a hole. Picked a cow earlier. Had is slaughtered and had it for din in over a big ass bonfire. Was awesome!

DanieMarie
06 Mar 2017, 06:35
My aunt and uncle used to keep chickens. We used to eat them, too. Usually just for holidays.

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 07:03
Ok, but what about things such as Ants, Snails, Grasshoppers & Locusts, Grubs and other insect like creatures?

Chocolate covers ants are not to bad but the heads get caught between your teeth. Grasshoppers & Locust are sort of crunchy. Snails are like eating oysters to me so never got a taste for them. Grubs couldn't do though I know they are a staple food some aboriginal peoples. None are high on my diet list for certain and would take a bit of getting used to other than as a so called exotic meal. But they are known meal things and I suppose substitutes for "meat" if you hold to a strict sense of meat being animals.

anunitu
06 Mar 2017, 07:49
I might mention I tried Caviar...Not impressed at all,Had to try just to say I did....

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 07:59
I might mention I tried Caviar...Not impressed at all,Had to try just to say I did....

When I went through Chief's initiation they had something that looked like caviar along with some shrimp sauce on it but not sure it was caviar. Definitely not shrimp cocktail sauce though. Of course everything we ate during initiation was real food just not something you might normally serve together. Any one who's an initiated Chief or gone through similar initiation's which used combined food's can probably relate to that aspect.

anunitu
06 Mar 2017, 08:15
Yeh,the date line and equator ones...did the date line,but not the equator...Got the order of the Golden dragon for the Date line.

Bartmanhomer
06 Mar 2017, 08:20
Ok, but what about things such as Ants, Snails, Grasshoppers & Locusts, Grubs and other insect like creatures?

Chocolate covers ants are not to bad but the heads get caught between your teeth. Grasshoppers & Locust are sort of crunchy. Snails are like eating oysters to me so never got a taste for them. Grubs couldn't do though I know they are a staple food some aboriginal peoples. None are high on my diet list for certain and would take a bit of getting used to other than as a so called exotic meal. But they are known meal things and I suppose substitutes for "meat" if you hold to a strict sense of meat being animals.

Please define protein.

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 08:54
Please define protein.

What's to define BMH? Each of those listed provides nutrition and will keep you alive. Basic survival skills and outdoorsmanship. Some taste better than others and have more nutritional value and different species have different properties.

Just imagine how many creepy crawly things you've already eaten in your life time. Forget the average number of spiders, ants, flies, etc that a person eats simply because we keep our mouth open for so much of the time when we sleep. They crawl in, we chomp down and swallow or just swallow and don't even think about it. It's all reflex. That's not counting roaches and stuff that you'd find in the cities or similar type bugs where mankind is heavily concentrated.

Bartmanhomer
06 Mar 2017, 09:32
What's to define BMH? Each of those listed provides nutrition and will keep you alive. Basic survival skills and outdoorsmanship. Some taste better than others and have more nutritional value and different species have different properties.

Just imagine how many creepy crawly things you've already eaten in your life time. Forget the average number of spiders, ants, flies, etc that a person eats simply because we keep our mouth open for so much of the time when we sleep. They crawl in, we chomp down and swallow or just swallow and don't even think about it. It's all reflex. That's not counting roaches and stuff that you'd find in the cities or similar type bugs where mankind is heavily concentrated.

OK I'm going to be very mature about and say this: I don't eat bugs and I never will.

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 09:45
OK I'm going to be very mature about and say this: I don't eat bugs and I never will.

BMH, you really do not want to check then into what the FDA says is allowable contamination of your food by foreign material. You've probably eaten more bugs and other things than you'd care to know about and don't even know you've eaten them. Realistically you've probably even eaten a few pets, not yours specifically, but not all meats that have been labeled as hamburger have been hamburger when tested.

Unless you raise it yourself, slaughter it yourself and then butcher it yourself then freeze it yourself you really can't be 100 positive what you pay for is what is on the label. Sad but true, that's why a lot of people do go the route of raising their own food or going in with others to raise cattle, hogs, etc the paying to have them slaughtered and butchered. That or purchasing from local ranchers, farmers, etc so they know exactly what they are getting.

Bartmanhomer
06 Mar 2017, 09:59
BMH, you really do not want to check then into what the FDA says is allowable contamination of your food by foreign material. You've probably eaten more bugs and other things than you'd care to know about and don't even know you've eaten them. Realistically you've probably even eaten a few pets, not yours specifically, but not all meats that have been labeled as hamburger have been hamburger when tested.

Unless you raise it yourself, slaughter it yourself and then butcher it yourself then freeze it yourself you really can't be 100 positive what you pay for is what is on the label. Sad but true, that's why a lot of people do go the route of raising their own food or going in with others to raise cattle, hogs, etc the paying to have them slaughtered and butchered. That or purchasing from local ranchers, farmers, etc so they know exactly what they are getting.

What make you so sure about it?

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 10:20
What make you so sure about it?

People I've known that were USDA inspectors, reports I've read, things I've seen, having known people as well as family that worked in various processing plants. That doesn't even count doing a stores load for military ships over seas where everything was purchased in accordance with FDA regulations and what was there.

Truthfully people live in denial when it comes to a lot of their food. Doesn't matter whether it be meat or the veggies and fruit. Even when you try to be safe and informed about it many times its made difficult by the very process that is supposed to keep you safe.

Hawkfeathers
06 Mar 2017, 10:42
Please define protein.

Amino acids joined by peptide bonds, forming polymer chains essential to nutrition. The stomach breaks them down into smaller chains, which we need in certain ratios for optimum health.

Bartmanhomer
06 Mar 2017, 13:08
People I've known that were USDA inspectors, reports I've read, things I've seen, having known people as well as family that worked in various processing plants. That doesn't even count doing a stores load for military ships over seas where everything was purchased in accordance with FDA regulations and what was there.

Truthfully people live in denial when it comes to a lot of their food. Doesn't matter whether it be meat or the veggies and fruit. Even when you try to be safe and informed about it many times its made difficult by the very process that is supposed to keep you safe.
If that's true why nobody isn't doing anything about it?

DanieMarie
06 Mar 2017, 13:34
If that's true why nobody isn't doing anything about it?

A lot of people are, but it's hard to catch culprits. Fish fraud is especially rampant, for example. In most cases of fish fraud, the fish comes from overseas and is processed overseas. On our side of things, we pretty much just have to take their word for it. It's pretty hard to tell one white fish from another white fish by flesh alone. They could genetically test every single filet, but that would be ridiculously expensive.

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 13:41
If that's true why nobody isn't doing anything about it?

It's in the packaging and wording. Sometimes you really have to research when it says stock and fillers.

It's also in the FDA rules and how much other stuff is allowed percentage wise per part. Then there is a difference between dry goods, fresh goods, live products, etc.

When it's caught legal actions are taken. Lots of times it's hard to catch. But many times it has to be really vagrant abuses of the system.

Heka
06 Mar 2017, 15:24
Ok, but what about things such as Ants, Snails, Grasshoppers & Locusts, Grubs and other insect like creatures?

Chocolate covers ants are not to bad but the heads get caught between your teeth. Grasshoppers & Locust are sort of crunchy. Snails are like eating oysters to me so never got a taste for them. Grubs couldn't do though I know they are a staple food some aboriginal peoples. None are high on my diet list for certain and would take a bit of getting used to other than as a so called exotic meal. But they are known meal things and I suppose substitutes for "meat" if you hold to a strict sense of meat being animals.

This vegetarian is very interested in insect proteins.

Heka
06 Mar 2017, 15:28
What make you so sure about it?

Google it. It's commonly accepted knowledge.

Heka
06 Mar 2017, 15:30
If that's true why nobody isn't doing anything about it?

The FDA etc has allowances for how much insect can turn up per food product. It's actually allowed. Like one bug part per block of chocolate or something

Jembru
06 Mar 2017, 15:37
This vegetarian is very interested in insect proteins.

Omg I love you!! ME TOO!! I dream of the day we all stop being pussies and start eating grubs. They are such a good source of protein and can be produced pound for pound at a fraction of the cost, time and space as livestock and with far less pollution too. It could easily be processed to make breaded nuggets, slices for sandwiches or even formed into rashers. What's the difference between eating a maggot and eating a prawn, that looks just like a pink maggot when shelled and ready to eat?

And for those who justify their meat eating with 'but we evolved to eat meat', we were eating insects (and shellfish) way before that, so go on, treat yourself, much on a locust!!

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OK I'm going to be very mature about and say this: I don't eat bugs and I never will.

If you want to change the world and reduce animal cruelty, helping to creating a demand for these products would be a fine place to start. Something to think about.

Heka
06 Mar 2017, 15:40
Omg I love you!! ME TOO!! I dream of the day we all stop being pussies and start eating grubs. They are such a good source of protein and can be produced pound for pound at a fraction of the cost, time and space as livestock and with far less pollution too. It could easily be processed to make breaded nuggets, slices for sandwiches or even formed into rashers. What's the difference between eating a maggot and eating a prawn, that looks just like a pink maggot when shelled and ready to eat?

And for those who justify their meat eating with 'but we evolved to eat meat', we were eating insects (and shellfish) way before that, so go on, treat yourself, much on a locust!!

- - - Updated - - -

If you want to change the world and reduce animal cruelty, helping to creating a demand for these products would be a fine place to start. Something to think about.

Yeah except i don't want to eat bugs lol. Bug powders ok

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 15:50
If that's true why nobody isn't doing anything about it?

An aside though but one of the big ones I was recently reading about is plastic rice. Some major shipments of the stuff have ended up in third world areas and some other areas as refugee & emergency food if I recall correctly. Don't recall where it came from as I believe it was shipped in bagged as regular rice. So parts of the pallet were real rice and parts were plastic rice. No one knows for sure how long its been going on as it was sort of a fluke that it was discovered.

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This vegetarian is very interested in insect proteins.

I could get behind eating processed insect proteins. Not sure I could do the wiggly wormy looking things though. In a pinch it'd be ok and have done so but to simply pick up like a chip couldn't do that. Had a hard enough time doing the fish thing when it's laying there looking back at me.

Hawkfeathers
06 Mar 2017, 15:53
or even formed into rashers.

Please excuse my Yankee ignorance, but what's a rasher?

Rick
06 Mar 2017, 16:34
Please excuse my Yankee ignorance, but what's a rasher?


In the U.S., a rasher is a slab of bacon. In the U.K... ???

Jembru
06 Mar 2017, 16:43
In the U.S., a rasher is a slab of bacon. In the U.K... ???

Same. You can get quorn rashers so I don't see why you couldn't make them from ground grub protein too.

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Yeah except i don't want to eat bugs lol. Bug powders ok

That's why I said 'we'. I'm including myself as one of the pussies. Although if they did make things out of ground up grubs so it didn't look like grubs, I think I probably could eat it.

anunitu
06 Mar 2017, 16:46
I had read somewhere that insect protein is much cheaper by the pound or European weight and much more nutritious,that and land use for raising meat animals is VERY expensive by acre used.

About eating bugs. (http://www.precisionnutrition.com/eating-bugs)

Bartmanhomer
06 Mar 2017, 17:05
An aside though but one of the big ones I was recently reading about is plastic rice. Some major shipments of the stuff have ended up in third world areas and some other areas as refugee & emergency food if I recall correctly. Don't recall where it came from as I believe it was shipped in bagged as regular rice. So parts of the pallet were real rice and parts were plastic rice. No one knows for sure how long its been going on as it was sort of a fluke that it was discovered.

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I could get behind eating processed insect proteins. Not sure I could do the wiggly wormy looking things though. In a pinch it'd be ok and have done so but to simply pick up like a chip couldn't do that. Had a hard enough time doing the fish thing when it's laying there looking back at me.

What does plastic rice got to do with anything? :confused:

monsno_leedra
06 Mar 2017, 17:16
What does plastic rice got to do with anything? :confused:

It's as valid as any aspect of this conversation. How inhumane is it to inflict pain and suffering on those dogs versus inflicting pain and suffering on the people who will eat that rice but never be nourished by it. Not only never be nourished but in the long run potentially be killed by it and suffer health issues due to the plastic nature of it and what it will do to their digestive tracks and other body parts. We have sea creatures washing ashore with stomachs full of plastic that have starved to death basically. Think that is any less humane and painful to those creatures than what is done to those dogs?

Come on BMH got to look at the larger picture here

Jembru
06 Mar 2017, 17:39
I had read somewhere that insect protein is much cheaper by the pound or European weight and much more nutritious,that and land use for raising meat animals is VERY expensive by acre used.

About eating bugs. (http://www.precisionnutrition.com/eating-bugs)

Yeah, but then.. I did already say that ^^


Omg I love you!! ME TOO!! I dream of the day we all stop being pussies and start eating grubs. They are such a good source of protein and can be produced pound for pound at a fraction of the cost, time and space as livestock and with far less pollution too. It could easily be processed to make breaded nuggets, slices for sandwiches or even formed into rashers. What's the difference between eating a maggot and eating a prawn, that looks just like a pink maggot when shelled and ready to eat?



It's not the first time I've mentioned my support for a move to bugs as our staple protein here. It's something I've felt strongly about for a few years now. Heck, it even made me post in a thread I'd been sneering at from a far until now!

Hawkfeathers
06 Mar 2017, 18:29
I don't think I've ever heard bacon called a rasher before! Thanks!
They make soy burgers, etc., I don't know why they couldn't be grub-burgers. Kinda icky but so are lobsters, really.

Jembru
06 Mar 2017, 19:06
I don't think I've ever heard bacon called a rasher before! Thanks!
They make soy burgers, etc., I don't know why they couldn't be grub-burgers. Kinda icky but so are lobsters, really.

Do you eat bacon in rashers in your part of the world though? I know when I was in Germany it wasn't easy to find bacon cut into thin strips like that (although come to think of it, I know in the US you can have slices of bacon in a burger, but maybe it's different in different states?). Not that I was looking for bacon in Germany. I just remember hearing some poor British expat moaning that he can't make a proper full English breakfast!

Hawkfeathers
06 Mar 2017, 19:20
Do you eat bacon in rashers in your part of the world though? I know when I was in Germany it wasn't easy to find bacon cut into thin strips like that (although come to think of it, I know in the US you can have slices of bacon in a burger, but maybe it's different in different states?). Not that I was looking for bacon in Germany. I just remember hearing some poor British expat moaning that he can't make a proper full English breakfast!

The only way I've ever noticed it in stores is pre-sliced.

Jembru
06 Mar 2017, 21:14
The only way I've ever noticed it in stores is pre-sliced.

That is a rasher though.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSweJH9EY1VS0o3BlLJugOtMjz-IYeydstpRA9HZy-99j5SjJ24Qg

I think this is just one of those weird cases where you manage to go through life without noticing a word. Happens to me a lot. I even have a deck on Anki (vocab app i use for Japanese) for learning English words that everyone else seems to know but me. My latest was 'gunwale', from just a fews days ago

This is kinda surreal though. A vegetarian teaching someone meat vocabulary!

anunitu
06 Mar 2017, 21:23
Here Bacon is normally what you showed above..Thick cut is referred to as Canadian Bacon.

So different types of Bacon here.
http://www.endlesssimmer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/BaconUncooked.JPG

Canadian Bacon is used in Eggs Benedict.

http://tastykitchen.com/recipes/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2009/10/Eggs-Benedict-420x278.png

Jembru
06 Mar 2017, 21:50
I couldn't find anything online suggesting that the word isn't universal in English speaking countries, but it might be that it's much more commonly used in some places than in others. I know in the US you there's a tendency away from pointless English. So maybe it's a case of 'why use rasher when the word 'slice' will suffice?'. In England we lean towards 'there's a proper word for that so I'd better use it so I don't sound uneducated'.

(I'd usually have started a new thread by now to prevent derailing but as it's this thread, I'm not bothered. Maybe we can rename it to 'the somewhat but by no means solely meat discussion thread')

DanieMarie
07 Mar 2017, 00:36
In Canada, we call "Canadian Bacon" "Back Bacon." I think this might also be true for other English-speaking countries. It also only looks round like that when it's trimmed. You can buy it untrimmed with the fat still on it, and we use it for a lot of other stuff (example: http://www.lousbbq.ca/Product.aspx?p=13). I think the Brits also eat that kind of bacon a lot.

Heka
07 Mar 2017, 21:49
Same. You can get quorn rashers so I don't see why you couldn't make them from ground grub protein too.

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That's why I said 'we'. I'm including myself as one of the pussies. Although if they did make things out of ground up grubs so it didn't look like grubs, I think I probably could eat it.

Ooo we have Sanitarium 'facon' here. I love it. We don't have Quorn facon though, but we have other Quorn products! I'd love to try insect facon!

I couldn't do grubs, or legs or winga or the crunch I don't think haha, so all powder for me!

Heka
07 Mar 2017, 21:52
Here Bacon is normally what you showed above..Thick cut is referred to as Canadian Bacon.

So different types of Bacon here.

Canadian Bacon is used in Eggs Benedict.



We use ham in eggs benedict, or regular ol bacon rashets. Canadian bacon isnt really a thing here.

Bartmanhomer
08 Mar 2017, 05:56
It's as valid as any aspect of this conversation. How inhumane is it to inflict pain and suffering on those dogs versus inflicting pain and suffering on the people who will eat that rice but never be nourished by it. Not only never be nourished but in the long run potentially be killed by it and suffer health issues due to the plastic nature of it and what it will do to their digestive tracks and other body parts. We have sea creatures washing ashore with stomachs full of plastic that have starved to death basically. Think that is any less humane and painful to those creatures than what is done to those dogs?

Come on BMH got to look at the larger picture here

I did get into a larger picture and what they're doing at China is evil beyond recognition.

monsno_leedra
08 Mar 2017, 06:43
I did get into a larger picture and what they're doing at China is evil beyond recognition.

Realistically BMH no you don't. Your more upset because it's being done to dogs which you see as pets. Yet your missing the fact they are being eaten and the entire animal is being used. So it's not like only certain parts are being taken from the animals and the rest is dumped into the trash or left to rot. Yes the method is barbaric but then again so is the method of ritual killing of cattle in Bali for certain sacrifices.

Evil would be killing them via torture and only using a small part of the animal. Leaving most of the meat to simply rot and taking just choice cuts.

Evil though, evil is coming up on a carcass and only the liver for instance is gone and the rest is left to rot. Coming up on a whole slew of rotting bodies that were killed because they got into the crops and nothing was done with the meat. Seeing them killed because they are considered as varmints or vermin and you can kill as many as you like basically to protect your crops. Like I said you really do not get the big picture.

Bartmanhomer
08 Mar 2017, 08:30
Realistically BMH no you don't. Your more upset because it's being done to dogs which you see as pets. Yet your missing the fact they are being eaten and the entire animal is being used. So it's not like only certain parts are being taken from the animals and the rest is dumped into the trash or left to rot. Yes the method is barbaric but then again so is the method of ritual killing of cattle in Bali for certain sacrifices.

Evil would be killing them via torture and only using a small part of the animal. Leaving most of the meat to simply rot and taking just choice cuts.

Evil though, evil is coming up on a carcass and only the liver for instance is gone and the rest is left to rot. Coming up on a whole slew of rotting bodies that were killed because they got into the crops and nothing was done with the meat. Seeing them killed because they are considered as varmints or vermin and you can kill as many as you like basically to protect your crops. Like I said you really do not get the big picture.

And that makes it OK? Seriously I don't see it that way.

monsno_leedra
08 Mar 2017, 12:12
Didn't say it made it better said you have to have the full picture. Any slaughter of any animal is painful. Yet a humane slaughter tries to make the death as painless and as quick as possible. Yet realistically there is still pain, a sense of fear in some capacity that the creature feels and experiences. Part of the debate is that it is the level of "Emotion" that is experienced at the time of death by the animal(s) that change the taste of the meat. Basically your talking chemicals released and how it will affect the creature.

Some will claim there is no affect, others will claim there is an effect upon the taste when you eat the animal. To be honest to me there is already a major difference in taste between factory farm raised animals and wild animals. Then there is also a difference in taste between grain feed animals and those that had to forage on anything they could find. You can also taste the difference between say a deer that had it's heart pumping hard and running when it was taken down and one that was basically just standing there and no adrenaline is coursing through the system.

But since this subject came up you keep hanging upon it being dogs and specifically how you see them as pets. No consideration of them as an actual food source. No consideration of the fact the animal is used to the fullest and little is wasted of it. No contrast to the fact so many animals are slaughtered for choice cuts of meat and the rest is tossed. Not even really considering cultural norms that are not American but Asian and generally accepted there. Nor considering your taking offense at a cultural norm for the Chinese in this instance while ignoring similar offensive things in the US if you look at our own meat packing industry or factory farming practices.

Condemning that practice mostly because it utilizes pets ie dogs while holding a roaring silence about equally horrendous practices in the US.

Sean R. R.
08 Mar 2017, 12:14
The issue here is that you (Bartmanhomer) are rather solipsist, in the sense that you limit your vision of the world according to your own personal culture, morals, world-view and mentality, without taking into account all the possible point of views this vision could have. This is of course, your right, and not in any way an incorrect way of thinking. But it is quite limiting when it comes to open debate/discussion in a forum.

Expample:

You: Yulin is barbaric. Killing dogs for food is evil (I'm making it short, not necessarily what you mean)

Person A: [Opinion/argument]

You: I don't see it that way.

Person B: [Opinion/argument]

You: I don't see it that way.

Etc.

There is no fundamental problem with you not agreeing with anything others say, but if you could extrude yourself a bit from your own views and upbringing, I'm sure you could come up with real solid arguments to defend your point, other than "not seeing it that way".

As is, this discussion is rather sterile, but with huge potential. Specism is right now the spotlight when it comes to animal rights and stuff.

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 12:44
We use ham in eggs benedict, or regular ol bacon rashets. Canadian bacon isnt really a thing here.

There is a product here on the east coast(might be NJ or Pinn thing) known as a pork roll.

Pretty tasty...salty a bit..fried and used in Sammy's a lot..A form of Ham in a way,but not as altered as SPAM.(one of my favorites BTW)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/8a/c2/488ac220401945fd87828415217d6227.jpg

Hawk might be familiar with it,being an EX Jersey girl(My first experience with it,because it does not exist on the west coast that I recall) Did I mention it is tasty?

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Also Sean,yes diversity in cultures on the subject of food,also rejecting a cultures food while you are visiting has and could put you in a negative light as far as the local population and the feeling by them you are disrespecting their culture and them personally. When in Rome,as the saying goes.

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Note on pork roll stuff,there is a Festival for it here in NJ..kinda popular in NJ

Bartmanhomer
08 Mar 2017, 13:07
The issue here is that you (Bartmanhomer) are rather solipsist, in the sense that you limit your vision of the world according to your own personal culture, morals, world-view and mentality, without taking into account all the possible point of views this vision could have. This is of course, your right, and not in any way an incorrect way of thinking. But it is quite limiting when it comes to open debate/discussion in a forum.

Expample:

You: Yulin is barbaric. Killing dogs for food is evil (I'm making it short, not necessarily what you mean)

Person A: [Opinion/argument]

You: I don't see it that way.

Person B: [Opinion/argument]

You: I don't see it that way.

Etc.

There is no fundamental problem with you not agreeing with anything others say, but if you could extrude yourself a bit from your own views and upbringing, I'm sure you could come up with real solid arguments to defend your point, other than "not seeing it that way".

As is, this discussion is rather sterile, but with huge potential. Specism is right now the spotlight when it comes to animal rights and stuff.

Well it's my opinion and I have a right to expressed it. I don't agree with what China is doing and I'm not going to change my mind about it. Ask yourself this. Would you rather eat your own pet (If you have any.) or would you take care of it without killing and devour it?

Medusa
08 Mar 2017, 13:09
They are not eating their pets.
They are eating animals they have raised for human consumption.

I'm so ready to get the cheese out.

Bartmanhomer
08 Mar 2017, 13:11
They are not eating their pets.
They are eating animals they have raised for human consumption.

I'm so ready to get the cheese out.

What's the difference? :confused:

Heka
08 Mar 2017, 13:12
[QUOTE="anunitu;231250"]

There is a product here on the east coast(might be NJ or Pinn thing) known as a pork roll.

Pretty tasty...salty a bit..fried and used in Sammy's a lot..A form of Ham in a way,but not as altered as SPAM.(one of my favorites BTW)

Hawk might be familiar with it,being an EX Jersey girl(My first experience with it,because it does not exist on the west coast that I recall) Did I mention it is tasty?[\QUOTE]

That looks like our fritz (or devon if you live on the east coast).

Heka
08 Mar 2017, 13:14
What's the difference? :confused:

The difference is they have no emotional attachment to the animal. Like we generally don't for chickens.

We raise chickens for slaughter to eat in western countries and this is normal.

Now change "chicken" to "dog" and "western" to "eastern".

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 13:16
Hmmm who knew?...Australia is kinda a down under New Jersey.....(Not a compliment BTW,Cause ya know New Jersey)

Bartmanhomer
08 Mar 2017, 13:17
The difference is they have no emotional attachment to the animal. Like we generally don't for chickens.

We raise chickens for slaughter to eat in western countries and this is normal.

Now change "chicken" to "dog" and "western" to "eastern".

I think I understand a little bit now, but I'm still oppose to it.

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 13:20
Perhaps we could just kill and eat the wild Nagua?

http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0107/18/naugahyde-nauga-doll-rare-find_1_3444adc4c97ca38cf68f67614d354450.jpg

Jembru
08 Mar 2017, 14:06
I think I understand a little bit now, but I'm still oppose to it.

You're allowed to be opposed to it. Why wouldn't you be? It really IS a horrific way to treat a living creature.

It's hard to tell with this 'thread', as it's more of a tangled mess of tangents than a single thread and I lost the gist pages ago, but I think the point people are trying to make is that killing any conscious sentient being for food is going to cause the animal distress regardless of the species. They're trying to make you think.. why is it okay for say, a cow to suffer at human hands, but not a dog? Just because your culture says it's 'normal', does that make it any more 'right'? It's a question every open-minded person has to ask themselves. There's no right answer either. Only what is right for you. Some will decide the animal's suffering is justified, others, as far as their budget will allow, will opt for organic/grass fed/humanely raised meat, or else try to cut down on how often they eat meat, or might choose fish and seafood over eating mammals. Then there are those who decide they'd rather just find alternative sources of protein and nutrients.

Like I say, there's no right answer. You need to decide for yourself. BUT if you feel the suffering of cattle is worth it for your burgers, then you need to realise that it is no different to killing dogs for meat (and if you think those cows live and die without suffering then I suggest you do some research, although I'll warn you that you won't like what you find out).

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 15:23
I myself live on a seesaw concerning eating meat,and being aware of suffering of the source of said meat. If one faces death from starvation or killing and eating a favorite pet,some will die before doing that,and some will do ANYTHING to avert death.

Heka
08 Mar 2017, 16:39
I think I understand a little bit now, but I'm still oppose to it.

Yeah thats good. I oppose all animals killings on some level. Which is fine. You're allowed to have opinions. But you've gotta be open minded too.

Heka
08 Mar 2017, 16:40
Hmmm who knew?...Australia is kinda a down under New Jersey.....(Not a compliment BTW,Cause ya know New Jersey)

Fritz is foul lol. And thanks... i guess...?? Haha

Medusa
08 Mar 2017, 17:52
You know when mama predators bring almost dead and maimed animals to their baby predators to practice on...no one protests them.

Bartmanhomer
08 Mar 2017, 18:07
Yeah thats good. I oppose all animals killings on some level. Which is fine. You're allowed to have opinions. But you've gotta be open minded too.

I understand that some cultures are different and I totally get it. Maybe I should be open-minded. :)

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 18:40
Think about cute little cats,that will torture their pray before eating it....

monsno_leedra
08 Mar 2017, 19:09
Think about cute little cats,that will torture their pray before eating it....

How about mama cats who bring nearly dead critters to their humans as signs of love. But make sure they still have enough life in them so you can kill them yourself and learn to kill like a good mama cat teaching her babies.:rolleyes:

anunitu
08 Mar 2017, 19:25
Are we completely sure Cats aren't partly human,or conversely humans may be part Predator, related to Cats...We do seem to be simpatico with Felines...

Because this.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/35/91/a8359121e8ff78cd676c1a2d65a29a16.jpg

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,so very cute...stab um Kitty...!!!!

monsno_leedra
08 Mar 2017, 19:58
I prefer this one

http://www.screencast.com/t/tL661cW9hj

Heka
09 Mar 2017, 03:24
I understand that some cultures are different and I totally get it. Maybe I should be open-minded. :)

This is exactly why people have disagreed with you up to now. Glad you're coming round.

Bartmanhomer
09 Mar 2017, 17:55
This is exactly why people have disagreed with you up to now. Glad you're coming round.

Yes but I'm still not comfortable eating dogs.

Juniper
09 Mar 2017, 19:45
Yes but I'm still not comfortable eating dogs.

And that's ok. No one is asking you to.

Heka
09 Mar 2017, 22:00
Yes but I'm still not comfortable eating dogs.

I don't think many people are. The only time I think anyone had mentioned actually eating dogs is like when I say that eating dog is no different to eating cow for me. If I was going to eat meat, dog and cos aren't different. I wouldn't discriminate.

Bartmanhomer
09 Mar 2017, 22:09
And that's ok. No one is asking you to.And let's keep it that way. :)


I don't think many people are. The only time I think anyone had mentioned actually eating dogs is like when I say that eating dog is no different to eating cow for me. If I was going to eat meat, dog and cos aren't different. I wouldn't discriminate.I know that some people are dog person. (People who likes dogs.) And you go to another country where people eats dogs. Then you want to try eating it. But then you have second thoughts about the self-conscious and mortality of eating something you care of for a living. It's just like you're betraying a pet by devouring their own kind.

MaskedOne
09 Mar 2017, 22:37
And let's keep it that way. :)



Shrug, you started a thread specifically to call out the tradition of another culture. You repeatedly chose to keep the thread going. If you spend less time doing the aforementioned than everyone else's vanishingly small interest in your dietary habits will shrink even more. If you continue the aforementioned practices then eventually people are gonna get pissed off enough to decide that if its okay for you to demand that others model their dietary habits on your belief system then its only fair that equivalent demands can be made on you.

TL;DR, let this subject die and no one will have any motivation to discuss the merits of eating dogs. Keep the topic alive and you get what you pay for.

anunitu
09 Mar 2017, 22:37
Sadly we humans violate mortality and morality on a daily basis. I would make excuses for we humans,BUT there really is no defense,and it "May" be "Mortality" that defines our approach to death about ourselves or other living creatures,rather than Morality

Bartmanhomer
09 Mar 2017, 22:46
Shrug, you started a thread specifically to call out the tradition of another culture. You repeatedly chose to keep the thread going. If you spend less time doing the aforementioned than everyone else's vanishingly small interest in your dietary habits will shrink even more. If you continue the aforementioned practices then eventually people are gonna get pissed off enough to decide that if its okay for you to demand that others model their dietary habits on your belief system then its only fair that equivalent demands can be made on you.

TL;DR, let this subject die and no one will have any motivation to discuss the merits of eating dogs. Keep the topic alive and you get what you pay for.

Fine I'll stop.

thalassa
15 Mar 2017, 06:21
So...just to play devil's advocate here...

In China, TCM* (Traditional Chinese Medicine) is a thing. It is a cultural practice with a long history (2500 years +) and includes herbalism, acupuncture, the use of massage, exercise and diet therapy, etc. It also includes the use of rare species and endangered and threatened species, which sometimes go for thousands of dollars and has (along with the rise of the Chinese version of the nouveau riche) directly funded the illegal wildlife trade. That trade is the fourth largest criminal enterprise, globally, and is just as much a direct cause of the critical endangerment of dozens of species world wide, from rhinos to the vaquita, as habitat loss and degradation. TCM directly funds poaching of tigers in India as well as tiger farming for body parts in China itself, for endangered sea turtle eggs, rhino horn (which is just keratin--use your own fingernails and hair) from Indonesia and Africa and apparently now zoos, for the totoaba (an endangered fish) and the vaquita (gets tangled in the nets which are actually illegal) in Mexico, etc. This particular cultural practice also funds crime and otherwise affects communities around the world, including local corruption and interfering the governmental politics of even on the level of a nation-state.

So, my question is this:

When is "its a cultural thing" not a good enough answer?

And "well the West does it/has done it too" is a cop-out and not a real answer. I am well aware that the history of the US and European nations is littered with similar behavior, as it seems to be a human instinct to find and use rare things as a way to distinguish the "haves" and "have nots" and, once a culture has a sufficient enough middle class, for that middle class to want to emulate and acquire the status symbols of the wealthy/power class, further exacerbating the consumption problem. I think "its a cultural thing" isn't a good enough answer for doing these things, regardless of the culture, including my own.



(We can always split this into another thread)




*TCM, officially has removed some of these products from its pharmacopeia, but in the informal/under-the-table/unofficial/lay practice of TCM, it goes on aplenty.

B. de Corbin
15 Mar 2017, 07:46
When is "its a cultural thing" not a good enough answer?

This only requires a short answer - The examined life is not worth living. Examine, even, your personal and cultural sacred cows.

B. de Corbin
15 Mar 2017, 08:50
This only requires a short answer - The examined life is not worth living. Examine, even, your personal and cultural sacred cows.

Sorry - should be "unexamined life"

Bartmanhomer
15 Mar 2017, 11:48
So...just to play devil's advocate here...

In China, TCM* (Traditional Chinese Medicine) is a thing. It is a cultural practice with a long history (2500 years +) and includes herbalism, acupuncture, the use of massage, exercise and diet therapy, etc. It also includes the use of rare species and endangered and threatened species, which sometimes go for thousands of dollars and has (along with the rise of the Chinese version of the nouveau riche) directly funded the illegal wildlife trade. That trade is the fourth largest criminal enterprise, globally, and is just as much a direct cause of the critical endangerment of dozens of species world wide, from rhinos to the vaquita, as habitat loss and degradation. TCM directly funds poaching of tigers in India as well as tiger farming for body parts in China itself, for endangered sea turtle eggs, rhino horn (which is just keratin--use your own fingernails and hair) from Indonesia and Africa and apparently now zoos, for the totoaba (an endangered fish) and the vaquita (gets tangled in the nets which are actually illegal) in Mexico, etc. This particular cultural practice also funds crime and otherwise affects communities around the world, including local corruption and interfering the governmental politics of even on the level of a nation-state.

So, my question is this:

When is "its a cultural thing" not a good enough answer?

And "well the West does it/has done it too" is a cop-out and not a real answer. I am well aware that the history of the US and European nations is littered with similar behavior, as it seems to be a human instinct to find and use rare things as a way to distinguish the "haves" and "have nots" and, once a culture has a sufficient enough middle class, for that middle class to want to emulate and acquire the status symbols of the wealthy/power class, further exacerbating the consumption problem. I think "its a cultural thing" isn't a good enough answer for doing these things, regardless of the culture, including my own.



(We can always split this into another thread)




*TCM, officially has removed some of these products from its pharmacopeia, but in the informal/under-the-table/unofficial/lay practice of TCM, it goes on aplenty.Ok. You kind of lost me just about......everything. Can you explained a bit more clearly please? :confused:

Heka
15 Mar 2017, 14:05
See it's tricky, because there are plenty of people who could make the decisions from up on high, kinda like a judge hands down sentences. But then who gets to make the call? Who stops them getting corrupted? I think the decision as to what practises are ok and not, particularly when it comes to life are relatively easy. But who makes the call and decides what is "right".

Medusa
15 Mar 2017, 16:16
China treats its animals badly.

It's like...China. Think on that.

Did we expect it to treat animals fairly when it treats its citizens like shit?

Bartmanhomer
15 Mar 2017, 17:24
China treats its animals badly.

It's like...China. Think on that.

Did we expect it to treat animals fairly when it treats its citizens like shit?

Looks like China is prejudice to animals. :(

anunitu
15 Mar 2017, 22:38
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
http://rs1268.pbsrc.com/albums/jj577/ElisMad/oh_noooo_zps27a3b843.jpg~c200

Bartmanhomer
21 Mar 2017, 14:08
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
http://rs1268.pbsrc.com/albums/jj577/ElisMad/oh_noooo_zps27a3b843.jpg~c200
What? What did I say?