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MaskedOne
10 Jul 2018, 10:25
Firefox tossed

https://aeon.co/essays/can-meditation-really-make-the-world-a-better-place

as an article that I might be interested in and I thought I'd share it. Apparently some researchers took a look at a number of studies regarding meditation and aren't entirely thrilled with the methodology in a number of them.

B. de Corbin
10 Jul 2018, 10:48
I've read of people having adverse experiences - possibly - from meditation. I'm not sure what to make of it, though. I use meditation to get rid of anxiety and panic attacks. Works for me...

Also, I get irritated by all the hoopla around meditation. As the article said, it is claimed to fix everything. It doesn't.

It is better to think of meditation as a tool. First, it is just one of many tools - use the right one for the job. Second, the tool doesn't do the work - it helps the USER do the work. How successful that user will be is only partially dependent on the tool And third, tools can be misused - a hammer is great for pounding nails. It also can be used for bashing heads in.

anunitu
10 Jul 2018, 14:15
well said B. D.

MaskedOne
11 Jul 2018, 07:04
I'm sort of curious about adverse experiences with meditation and may go looking for data on that since this didn't really cover much about them. I'm also sort of interested that meditation is being applied militarily and whether it can lead to a general reduction in things like PTSD. Thar said, I was surprised by the general testing issues that were revealed. I don't backtrack medical tests often to examine methods. I occasionally doublecheck sources but I rarely examine methods.

B. de Corbin
11 Jul 2018, 10:18
I'm interested in what you find out about the adverse effects. The article I read didn't have any more information than the one you presented. If meditation is linked to something like panic attacks, I'd want to know if it is a cause or an effect - did the person start meditating hoping to cope with anxiety, without any guidance or other help, causing the anxiety to get worse (the article mentioned feeling of failure due to lack of success in meditating), or was the person fine until he/she began meditating?

Also, there is the correlation/cause problem. A certain portion of the population is going to develop anxiety/panic disorder, so some people who meditate will develop the problem whether they meditate or not. Picture a Venn diagram with two circles labeled "people who meditate" and "people who develop anxiety" overlapping...

With that said, it also may depend on the the particular meditation technique involved. Some Tantra techniques are pretty extreme (like meditating among rotting corpses), and should NEVER be used without a highly qualified guide. Someone who attempts these techniques without a guide can, literally, drive themselves insane.

But it's hard for me to imagine that mindfulness meditation could cause problems... Although a person suffering from schizophrenia might end up focused on the voices.

I would think that, with proper instruction and additional care for extreme cases (sometimes you really need meds), it could help with PTSD - but I don't think self medicating with meditation instead of professional help is a good idea in most cases.

Honestly, people gotta use sense. There's not much good in stupid.

Oh, and yeah... You always get crap research when somebody thinks they've got a miracle cure.

Hawkfeathers
11 Jul 2018, 10:58
I started taking meditation classes in the '90s. I never could really achieve what was being talked about. My thoughts are like a highway with 6 lanes of traffic on each side: very orderly, some fast, some slow, some exiting while others enter, never a crash, but it's impossible for every car to exit and leave the highway empty. Or like an orchestra, where each instrument plays its part, and they all play together. That's the best I can explain it.

anunitu
11 Jul 2018, 13:10
I have never really had a negative event ,I was told by a "shrink",that I live way to much in my head. Once at a Budapest meditation thing,by a Vietnam friend who asked HOW I could go so deep so fast,and he had been studying for many years,just a quick study I guess. I have been doing it just naturally growing up,my older sister also did that

pillar
11 Jul 2018, 13:46
I meditated for a couple years or so, just focusing on the mantra with my breath until I could clear my mind, then I got better andbetter at keeping it clear, then one night I got this incredible "body buzz", like being on a narcotic, along with a very strong feeling of well being. I was like is this real, and then it was gone. So I kept at it, over time the feeling happened again and again and it became easier to hold on to or let happen however you want to see it. It also became easier to return to that state once broken. Then after a while I was getting in to the state more quickly after starting meditation. This was in the mid 90's. I asked a message board about it, and someone said to try and move my finger, hand, or foot, and keep in the state. And once I get good at that to try (I meditated laying down) try puting my foot on the floor. and everytime I slipped out of it to go back to my origanal position and try again. With the ultimate goal of trying to stand, and eventualy open my eyes, and even walk while being in that state. I took a while but I got to the point where I could walk around, drive, talk to people, all while in this very calm, comforting state. These activities required some amount of thought ofcourse, but it didn't seem to matter. I could just be doing whatever most of the time and say ok lets see if I can. I would breathe with the mantra for just a minute or so and get there. I've been told the proper word isn't mantra, but it worked. Then around 2003-4 I just lost the ability. I did get out of practice but I would still be able to get there with maybe a half hours work. But it just kinda went away, and hasn't come back since.