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Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 08:24
I'd really like to see this Golden Age vs. Technology discussion made into a separate thread...

I have a dream; a dream of a simpler world from long ago, back when people weren't segregated from the Earth by layers of concrete, and dependent upon fragile systems that would mean the end of their world as they know it if those systems ever malfunctioned; tis a foolish man who builds his house on sand, and that's what humanity has done to a large extent. How many of them would actually be able to find their own food, water and shelter, should the need ever arise? The department store is the new proverbial hunting grounds for most modern humans, and their weapons are cash and coins as opposed to bows and arrows. The new watering hole is in the modern home's kitchen; where the life-giving substance just seems to magically pour from the steel faucet, with many owners of said faucets not even knowing where their water is actually coming from, or what is actually in it, nor do they seem to care about that peculiar chemical taste within the city water...or they just don't know what clean water tastes like, because its been so long since they've had any that doesn't either come out of a faucet, or a plastic bottle made out of synthetic chemical substances. :XD:

When was the last time you had fresh, cold, mountain spring water from your own Earthen clay jug as the forest sings and dances around you? Ever? Would that not be a more pleasant, wholesome, natural, and healthy way of drinking water? :confused:

Water's not the only thing that has changed in the Modern Age; even food contains additional chemicals and toxins in it from the special fertilizers used, and genetic engineering of cattle, which aren't taken care of in a tender, loving environment, but instead a giant factory where cows are herded in like nothing more than sacks of meat, with no consideration for their own individuality or personality, with no thanks for the sacrifice it made, and absolutely no thought to how the negative energy affects their meat. Can you taste the fear in a McDonald's Big Mac, for example? I can. That's because I grew up in a small self-sufficient village in the middle of Alaska where all the cattle was raised locally on large green fields; where they were catered to like royalty, loved and spoken to in gentle, caring tones. The difference in the taste compared to factory slaughter houses is truly incredible. In my mind, that's just karma from Mother Nature; if you abuse your plants and livestock, they won't yield as desirable fruit or meat; simply talking to them makes a world of difference. People in the old days knew this; it was common practice; back when humans had a partnership with nature, and they didn't just blindly take or do whatever they wanted to, whenever they wanted to, however they wanted to, with no respect or thought to the consequences; like soulless machines. :mad:

Our food and water aren't the only things that have been diminished by the Modern Age; our very homes contain far more hazards than homes of the past did. Carbon monoxide poisoning, black mold, asbestos, rot, backed up plumbing filling the place with the stench of human waste; these were all issues that were essentially non-existent when we were living in Earthen huts and homes, covered with soil to permit the all-important rain to reach the ground and bring forth new life; covering our home-mound in beautiful green grass, berries and wild flowers, blending it right into the Earth, unobstrusively and harmoniously with nature. Once again, I think it's karma; when you consider the Earth, the Earth will consider you; when you neglect the Earth, the Earth will neglect you.

Food, water, and shelter; the basic fundamental cornerstones of survival, have all been mutilated by the Modern Age. That's not even going into all of the other damaging aspects of modern civilization! Perhaps that's what the rest of this thread is for. :shy:

PS: Sorry if this thread is in the wrong place...


--Sollomyn

Tylluan Penry
25 Mar 2019, 11:10
The oldest house I ever lived in was about 400 years old. I've never lived anywhere less than 100+ years. Shelter aspects weren't too bad - the walls were thick, the roof (provided it was kept in good repair) wasn't a problem. The problem was that the wooden joists went rotten quickly.
Food was not as good as we like to think even a century ago. Additives included dried poo, sawdust, metal, and earth. Nobody monitored it, especially in cities. The reason people flocked to urban areas during the Industrial Revolution was that life was so damned hard in the country. Not everyone could hunt or grow their own food. As for the stench of human waste - what do you think life was like in the days before proper drains and sewers. Backed up plumbing might be a bitch, but no plumbing at all probably belongs in the seventh circle of hell.

I do agree with you though that the earth should be respected and we shouldn't blindly grab more more more without a thought for where it comes from or what the real price might be. :)

Eleanor
25 Mar 2019, 11:41
...When was the last time you had fresh, cold, mountain spring water from your own Earthen clay jug as the forest sings and dances around you? Ever? Would that not be a more pleasant, wholesome, natural, and healthy way of drinking water? :confused:
Except that most water sources near areas where humans live are contaminated with bacteria our bodies are no longer used to. So thanks, but I'll just stick with the life-giving substance that magically pours from my steel faucet and is clean :p Nothing wrong with that.


...and genetic engineering of cattle, which aren't taken care of in a tender, loving environment, but instead a giant factory where cows are herded in like nothing more than sacks of meat, with no consideration for their own individuality or personality...
That's the reason I went vegan, because I won't stand for the way that animals are treated in factory farming and the massive negative impact it has on the planet just because people want a burger... but I also don't see how we could provide meat for 7,5 billion people every year and still give the billions of animals needed for that the space and life that we think they deserve to have. We simply don't have enough land for it, even if we would cut down every single tree on the planet. Even if we would all become flexitarians.
Modern age is providing us with great solutions though. I'm all for lab meat for example. No animals harmed, we wouldn't need the pastures and people can have their 'real' meat burger. There, everyone's happy ;) Lab meat will be in our modern age supermarkets in a few years and it's going to make a huge, positive impact on the reduction of carbon dioxide.


Our food and water aren't the only things that have been diminished by the Modern Age; our very homes contain far more hazards than homes of the past did. Carbon monoxide poisoning, black mold, asbestos, rot, backed up plumbing filling the place with the stench of human waste; these were all issues that were essentially non-existent when we were living in Earthen huts and homes, covered with soil to permit the all-important rain to reach the ground and bring forth new life; ...
Not all things about modern age are bad. On the contrary, I think modern age and technology could save us and our planet if we keep working hard on improving it and solving the issues we face.

I agree with you that there's nothing nostalgic about modern technology though. I'd like nothing more than to live in a small community in a simple home (still build with bricks though) that lives off the food it grows locally and people looking after each other and nature. Sadly, I don't see that day coming very soon as human populations will only grow. But, then again, never say never.

All things considered, I'm not hopeless at all for the outcome of our planet. Humans have a great ability to adapt. No matter what the future will bring, we WILL adapt to it. We HAVE to. If not, it's simple: nature will wipe us all out :) The Earth will be fine one way or the other. It's us humans who are screwed...

Great topic! I'm curious what others think.

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 13:18
The oldest house I ever lived in was about 400 years old. I've never lived anywhere less than 100+ years. Shelter aspects weren't too bad - the walls were thick, the roof (provided it was kept in good repair) wasn't a problem. The problem was that the wooden joists went rotten quickly.

Nice; personally I'm a fan of underground homes for those reasons among others; no rotting wood to worry about, the roof is Earth so it's definitely strong enough and never needs repairing, and the walls of Earth are bulletproof, not to mention an excellent natural insulator. :o Best part is it's completely green and doesn't require cutting down any trees; just clay bricks or stones sealed together with mortar; then once the structure is built it's covered with soil and voila; underground home. :D



Food was not as good as we like to think even a century ago. Additives included dried poo, sawdust, metal, and earth. Nobody monitored it, especially in cities.

Haha; grody! I would never suggest those additives for food. :XD: I should probably note that I'm not saying people should replicate exactly what the ancients did; I'm talking more blending modern-day knowledge with the ways of the ancients. For example, NOT sprinkling hard metals onto our food, and instead growing peppers and spices, and evaporating salt water to attain the salt. You can make absolutely delicious delicacies in the wilderness using primitive skills. :)



The reason people flocked to urban areas during the Industrial Revolution was that life was so damned hard in the country. Not everyone could hunt or grow their own food.

Hardship often makes people want to run away; the key is to learn how to enjoy working for what you get; you start seeing it less like labor and more like the act of being free and independent; self-sufficient. With just some minor changes in perspective and attitude, the work it takes to live free and independently actually becomes enjoyable. In the days of the ancients, (I'm talking stone age here haha), everyone was trained by the elders of the tribe in the ways of hunting and gathering and gardening; teaching the young how to survive in the world was just a common-sense practice in those days. The only ones who didn't hunt, gather or garden were usually just the sick and the elderly; they were either taken care of by the rest of the tribe...unless it was a tribe like the Eskimos back in Alaska who practice a form of senicide; when the eldery got to be too much of a liability, they'd often be pushed out to sea on an ice floe to die. Not forcibly mind you; this was just the tradition, and the elderly involved were willing and understanding, often seeing it as a blessing; nice big ceremony and tender farewells. I'm conflicted on that personally, but without condoning, or condemning, I understand. To conclude this part though, living a self-sufficient lifestyle is definitely more easy to accomplish with a group of people; two individuals can make quick work of a task that would've taken a lot longer and been much more difficult for just one person. This also helped people grow closer and stronger bonds the likes of which just aren't seen in modern day cities where machines do most of the hard, time-consuming work, consequently causing people to appreciate and respect it much less than they would have had they had to put in that work themselves; the sense of achievement is almost like payment in and of itself haha.


As for the stench of human waste - what do you think life was like in the days before proper drains and sewers. Backed up plumbing might be a bitch, but no plumbing at all probably belongs in the seventh circle of hell.

Actually, ever since Biblical times (at least that far back anyway), people would simply go off into the woods a ways, dig a little hole, go poo in it, and then fill the hole back in with dirt, leaving the fecal matter to decompose into the rest of the soil, just like any other animal droppings haha. If you have a septic tank, a large portion of the waste inside of it seeps back into the ground; what doesn't seep back into the ground usually has to be pumped out by a truck that then brings all the waste matter to a sewage treatment plant. I'm unsure of exactly where it goes from there, but I'd hope it just ends up going back into the ground. So really, for thousands and thousands of years, humanity has done more or less the same thing with their waste matter; they give it back to nature haha. The only real differences is the plumbing and the processing and refining processes at sewage plants. No pun intended, but that just looks like a whole lot of waste to me haha. Older civilizations also eventually came up with the idea of outhouses; another way of putting human waste into the ground. When they get full, you just relocate the outhouse and fill in the pit with Earth like you do when you dig a little hole to poop in; covers up the smell and makes the area more sanitary by preventing anyone from accidentally stepping into your fecal matter; not to mention it makes it a little harder for predatory animals to track you haha.


I do agree with you though that the earth should be respected and we shouldn't blindly grab more more more without a thought for where it comes from or what the real price might be. :)

Indeed; those weren't problems back when people had to provide for themselves. :(


...but I also don't see how we could provide meat for 7,5 billion people every year...

This right here precisely the problem I have! You see...WE shouldn't be providing other people's meat at all, haha. THEY should be providing their OWN meat on their OWN little farms (or via hunting). They shouldn't just expect others to provide for them without putting in any of the work. That's the attitude of entitlement that I have such an issue with; people in modern civilizations, particularly millenials but many adults as well, just seem to think that they're entitled to be fed and watered and sheltered by their friends, family or their government, completely free of charge, without having to contribute anything themselves. It disgusts me. Back in the day, if you weren't able to provide for yourself, you went the way of the dodo bird. I miss that; there'd be so many less stupid people in the world, and thus a cleaner environment too hahaha (Humans exhale carbon dioxide. :p)


Modern age is providing us with great solutions though. I'm all for lab meat for example. No animals harmed, we wouldn't need the pastures and people can have their 'real' meat burger. There, everyone's happy ;) Lab meat will be in our modern age supermarkets in a few years and it's going to make a huge, positive impact on the reduction of carbon dioxide.

I've never heard of lab meat; I'll have to look into it, if only to shake my head at it in annoyance haha. Whatever it is, I can promise you that it isn't actually meat, because like it or not, animals have to be harmed in order to get meat. Other animals hunt other animals because meat is high in proteins and nutrients. Humans are just another animal in my mind; and like all the other animals, we too feed on meat; that's why our eyes are pointing forwards and not on either side of our head like a deer haha. They point forward so that we can better focus on, and catch our prey. We're predators, and to try to deny or change that just seems unnatural to me; almost as unnatural as lab meat. :XD: (When you get some lab meat though, try feeding it to your cat or dog just to see what they do; I'm thinking they'll be disappointed; take one sniff of it, conclude that it isn't food, then look up at you like you're trying to play some kind of sick joke on them by giving them fake meat. :XD:)



Not all things about modern age are bad. On the contrary, I think modern age and technology could save us and our planet if we keep working hard on improving it and solving the issues we face.

Indeed; I don't think all things about the modern age are bad either; I just think there's a lot more good things about the Golden Age as opposed to the Modern Age. Either age will have some good and bad aspects; I just think the Modern Age has more bad aspects to it than the Golden Age did.



I agree with you that there's nothing nostalgic about modern technology though. I'd like nothing more than to live in a small community in a simple home (still build with bricks though) that lives off the food it grows locally and people looking after each other and nature. Sadly, I don't see that day coming very soon as human populations will only grow. But, then again, never say never.

Indeed; overpopulation is a huge issue. I'm literally HOPING a solar flare hits the Earth and fries all electronics sending us back into the dark ages. The overpopulation problem would be solved like, practically overnight hahaha. :XD: (Fortunately we are overdue for a massive solar flare; sun should be popping a zit any moment now; let's hope we're in it's trajectory path hahaha. :cool:


All things considered, I'm not hopeless at all for the outcome of our planet. Humans have a great ability to adapt. No matter what the future will bring, we WILL adapt to it. We HAVE to. If not, it's simple: nature will wipe us all out :) The Earth will be fine one way or the other. It's us humans who are screwed...

Indeed; I'd just rather adapt to Nature than a postapocalyptic chemical wasteland resulting in humanity having to move to Mars, where there is like, literally no green at all on the surface of the inhospitable planet, (at least until we terraform it over the course of hundreds or thousands of years).


Great topic! I'm curious what others think.

Thanks; me too. :o

--Sollomyn

B. de Corbin
25 Mar 2019, 14:12
People who are anti tech saying it over the internet.

What a hoot.

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 14:33
People who are anti tech saying it over the internet.

What a hoot.

Whoever said I'm anti-technology????? :XD:

I surely never said I am haha. :XD laugh:

faye_cat
25 Mar 2019, 15:40
Honestly, a shift back to more natural living in terms of mentality and appreciating the earth is wonderful, but it's not a competition. Life sucked back then, life sucks now, only the life span is a bit longer. Capitalism is a lot more to blame than the "sheeple" you seem to want to passive aggressively judge.

Bartmanhomer
25 Mar 2019, 15:41
We're futuristically technological advanced and it's going to continue advancing when space aliens landed in our planet or maybe we evolved in space aliens ourselves for thousands or millions years later. :D

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 16:01
We're futuristically technological advanced and it's going to continue advancing when space aliens landed in our planet or maybe we evolved in space aliens ourselves for thousands or millions years later. :D

Only time will tell, haha! Personally though I think it's a cycle; humanity builds up to futuristic technology, and then either a man-made or natural disaster ends up pushing the proverbial reset button. Like the story of Atlantis; perhaps a once highly advanced technological race of beings, only to be wiped out in the Great Flood. Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics also depict technology far more advanced than what we had thought they had.

So yeah...it's probably a cycle....like a heartbeat.....kind of beautiful, really; when you think about it. :o


--Sollomyn

Bartmanhomer
25 Mar 2019, 16:06
Only time will tell, haha! Personally though I think it's a cycle; humanity builds up to futuristic technology, and then either a man-made or natural disaster ends up pushing the proverbial reset button. Like the story of Atlantis; perhaps a once highly advanced technological race of beings, only to be wiped out in the Great Flood. Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics also depict technology far more advanced than what we had thought they had.

So yeah...it's probably a cycle....like a heartbeat.....kind of beautiful, really; when you think about it. :o


--Sollomyn

Unless if there's a zombie apocalypse heading our way! :D

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 16:09
Honestly, a shift back to more natural living in terms of mentality and appreciating the earth is wonderful, but it's not a competition. Life sucked back then, life sucks now, only the life span is a bit longer. Capitalism is a lot more to blame than the "sheeple" you seem to want to passive aggressively judge.

Life doesn't have to suck; people just tell themselves that a lot, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. The energies you put out into the world will be sent back to you; like attracts like, birds of a feather flock together, the law of attraction, karma, or whatever terminology resonates best with you. If more people instead said life rocks, then life would rock. :o

Attitude and perception are the keys to making a happy or an unhappy life, regardless of circumstances, and those are almost the only two things you have true control over, so why not start telling yourself that life is awesome? At least a little more often. :o

And try to smile and laugh when you don't feel like it; the simple act of smiling sends signals to your brain which then release chemicals to make you feel happy. ;)


Unless if there's a zombie apocalypse heading our way! :D

Hehe, it's already here in my opinion. :p

B. de Corbin
25 Mar 2019, 16:33
Whoever said I'm anti-technology????? :XD:

I surely never said I am haha. :XD laugh:

It was probobly this diatribe that gave me that impression:


I have a dream; a dream of a simpler world from long ago, back when people weren't segregated from the Earth by layers of concrete, and dependent upon fragile systems that would mean the end of their world as they know it if those systems ever malfunctioned; tis a foolish man who builds his house on sand, and that's what humanity has done to a large extent. How many of them would actually be able to find their own food, water and shelter, should the need ever arise? The department store is the new proverbial hunting grounds for most modern humans, and their weapons are cash and coins as opposed to bows and arrows. The new watering hole is in the modern home's kitchen; where the life-giving substance just seems to magically pour from the steel faucet, with many owners of said faucets not even knowing where their water is actually coming from, or what is actually in it, nor do they seem to care about that peculiar chemical taste within the city water...or they just don't know what clean water tastes like, because its been so long since they've had any that doesn't either come out of a faucet, or a plastic bottle made out of synthetic chemical substances.

When was the last time you had fresh, cold, mountain spring water from your own Earthen clay jug as the forest sings and dances around you? Ever? Would that not be a more pleasant, wholesome, natural, and healthy way of drinking water?

faye_cat
25 Mar 2019, 16:38
Life doesn't have to suck; people just tell themselves that a lot, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. The energies you put out into the world will be sent back to you; like attracts like, birds of a feather flock together, the law of attraction, karma, or whatever terminology resonates best with you. If more people instead said life rocks, then life would rock. :o

Attitude and perception are the keys to making a happy or an unhappy life, regardless of circumstances, and those are almost the only two things you have true control over, so why not start telling yourself that life is awesome? At least a little more often. :o

And try to smile and laugh when you don't feel like it; the simple act of smiling sends signals to your brain which then release chemicals to make you feel happy. ;)

To be clear, when I say life sucks, I say it in the same offhanded way that people say nature is unforgiving. As in, there's always going to be bad things that happen. That doesn't mean that good things don't happen, only that there is bad and good, that's what makes up life. In the context of this thread, there are bad things that happened in the past, and there are bad things that happen now. Going back to the past isn't going to fix the bad things. You telling me to be positive has nothing to do with the actual context of this thread, honestly.

But sure. Let's talk about this
Attitude and perception are the keys to making a happy or an unhappy life, regardless of circumstances, and those are almost the only two things you have true control over, so why not start telling yourself that life is awesome?

Maybe if you took your own advice you wouldn't be lamenting this modern age and wishing for the "golden age" (Which, define golden age, btw. What time frame are you thinking is golden? The dark ages? The Renaissance? Which continent? Which civilization? What time period, and for men or women or children?) It sounds like you just need a little more positive thinking and you wouldn't be so discontent in this modern age. :rolleyes:

Our food and water aren't the only things that have been diminished by the Modern Age;



Food, water, and shelter; the basic fundamental cornerstones of survival, have all been mutilated by the Modern Age. That's not even going into all of the other damaging aspects of modern civilization


back when humans had a partnership with nature, and they didn't just blindly take or do whatever they wanted to, whenever they wanted to, however they wanted to, with no respect or thought to the consequences; like soulless machines. :mad:

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 17:33
Thanks for the clarification. :o

And honestly, I'm not sure if the Golden Age, as I imagine it in my mind, has ever actually existed. If it did, it would probably have been around 100,000 years before Christ. Even that though probably isn't really the vision I have in my mind....so perhaps it's a New Age. :o

And indeed haha; I could think more positively. I'm already abundantly positive in comparison to a lot of folks, but even I get down in the dumps on occasion, and need to remember to take my own advice. :o


It was probobly this diatribe that gave me that impression:

I showed support for technology in that "diatribe"; bows and arrows, ceramics, etc. I'm not AGAINST technology, I just don't agree with how we've gone about advancing technology; I'm all for the advancement of technology, but I believe in doing so in harmony with Mother Nature instead of against it.

Like this computer I'm typing on; lot's a plastic; surely there's an all-natural alternative to the casings. Lots of components inside of the computer are all-natural; metals, crystals, etc. I'm not saying that technology is bad; I'm saying we should've gone about evolving it differently than we did. Hope this clears things up.

It it's not natural, then I'm probably not going to be a fan of it. Technology is a natural part of the human experience though, but not all technology is natural.

A ROCK is a piece of technology depending on how you use it. :XD:


...It should also be noted that I believe in Magick, which has the potential to make a lot of modern technology obsolete.

Astral Projection for example could be a substitute for the Internet.

Dreamwalking and Telepathy could be a substitute for the Cell Phone.

Telekinesis could be a subsitute for Heavy Machinery.

And so on and so forth; the possibilities are virtually endless. :o

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 20:09
That could be a theme of this thread; making inquiries on how the Golden Age (or should we call it the New Age? :confused:) can be equivalent to if not greater than the Modern Age.

Candy for example; that's a relatively modern invention, but can still be made from perfectly natural materials in a primitive environment. Chips are also doable; they're made from potatoes. Popcorn would be easy enough; but I'm not sure about soda pop...I might have to look into that; there's a lot of unnatural qualities to modern day soda pop, just judging from the nutrition facts labels where they list the ingredients haha. There's stuff on there that sounds like it was designed in a laboratory which probably means whatever natural resources went into it got mutilated from what they originally were; I believe science tampers far too much with Mother Nature instead of just taking her for what she is. If someone gives you a present meant for a certain purpose, isn't it kind of rude to bust that present up into little pieces, to then take parts from it to mix with parts of other presents, in order to make something for a totally different purpose? Especially something that ends up harming the person who gave you those gifts? ...That's kind of how I see it anyway. :=L:


--Sollomyn

Eleanor
25 Mar 2019, 22:25
...It should also be noted that I believe in Magick, which has the potential to make a lot of modern technology obsolete.

Astral Projection for example could be a substitute for the Internet.

Dreamwalking and Telepathy could be a substitute for the Cell Phone.

Telekinesis could be a subsitute for Heavy Machinery.

And so on and so forth; the possibilities are virtually endless. :o
That's just what it is though, believe. If everyone would actually be able to do astral projection, dreamwalking and telekinesis, we probably wouldn't have all this technology. But people can't do it, so we invented technologies to do it for us. So technology could actually be seen as a kind of magick.

Sollomyn
25 Mar 2019, 22:44
Everyone can do it; they just need to learn how and practice to get better. I taught myself to control fire with my mind when I was a little kid, among a number of other supernatural abilities. They slowly diminished as I got older and life started beating me down haha, but that's a mentality issue; with a change in perspective, new doors are opened up in the mind. Kids for some reason seem to use these abilities a lot more naturally; I have a theory that it's due to a combination of innocence/purity and open-mindedness; it's a lot easier for little kids to truly believe in magic and the seemingly impossible, and because they believe it wholeheartedly, they're minds turn it into a reality. I have a somewhat connected theory that consciousness itself creates reality.

The difficulty with performing magick is that not many truly believe in it, even if they think that they do. One thing I've found that has helped is recognizing that facts are fickle things, and not everything is as it seems. For example, it was once upon a time, not too long ago, a scientific impossibility for a bumblebee to fly, because the surface area of it's wings couldn't possibly lift it's giant body. It wasn't until the advent of high-speed cameras that scientists were able to observe a flying bumblebee in slow motion, observing that their wings actually bend and flex in such a specific manner as to create lift on the upstroke as well as the downstroke of their wings. With this new information, it was no longer a physical impossibility for a bumblebee to fly.

Seemingly impossible statements can actually turn out to be true. For another example: There are rats that glow in the dark.

Sounds pretty absurd, huh? Well it's true. ....Go ahead; google it. I'll wait. ;)

PS: Indeed; technology is a form of magick. I think it would be classified as Low Magick if I recall correctly; everyone practices some form of Low Magick. What we really need to work towards advancing though is High Magick. :o

Tylluan Penry
28 Mar 2019, 11:16
While I agree that often things are not as they seem, please don't come out with 'facts are fickle things,' because they're not. Not if they are really facts. It's the state of knowledge that tends to evolve. For example, it have never been a physical impossibility for a bumblebee to fly - people see bumblebees flying, they have done for for millennia, it was just that science struggled to explain exactly how it worked.
There's a difference - and that's where your arguments come adrift sometimes.

The same goes for your final statement about high and low magick. Don't just throw that out there - explain what YOU mean by these terms, and then people can engage with you better.

Sollomyn
28 Mar 2019, 11:22
...Nevermind. :rolleyes:

Sollomyn
28 Mar 2019, 12:27
All I was trying to point out is that facts can change. Right now it's a fact that New York City is highly populated. In the future, that will no longer be a fact; New York City will be wiped off the map eventually. Fickle is a word to describe a non-constant state. Something that is subject to change. Facts change.

Bumblebees flying being a physical/scientific impossibility was meant in the sense that the manmade concepts of science and physics, as it was understood at the time, could not permit a bumblebee to fly. Like everything else in the Universe, science is also subject to change; it's all dependent on circumstances. For example, if there were a certain more number of black holes that had formed in the Universe, the laws of physics as we currently know them would start to break down. New facts would then have to be created in order to accomodate a new reality.

For me, High Magick is ceremonial in nature with a lot of factors that have to be just right, with precise timing; usually there's math involved.

For others, it could mean something different.

If you're going to make it a heated debate though, I'd rather just drop the whole thing instead of arguing about it.

Juniper
28 Mar 2019, 19:52
This isn't the debate section so this topic should be treated as a discussion. However, regardless of any type of section, if one states things as a "fact" one needs to be prepared to back it up with proof when questioned.

Sollomyn
28 Mar 2019, 20:06
It's a fact that it's 10:05 PM MST where I'm at...

...It's actually not a fact anymore; because it's 10:06 PM MST now.

Boom. Facts can change. :XD laugh:

Juniper
28 Mar 2019, 20:46
Time is always changing. That's a fact that's never changed since the beginning of time.

Sollomyn
28 Mar 2019, 21:33
Time is always changing. That's a fact that's never changed since the beginning of time.

If there ever was a beginning of time; some theories suggest that perhaps the Universe has always existed; with no beginning, and no end.

Time itself is kind of funny; I have some doubts about it personally haha. I think it's just another box we like to organize our reality into; makes us feel more secure; these "facts". ;)

I think if we believe something strongly enough, our minds will make it a reality. The best example I think I've seen of this mind-power is a supposed demonic possession case; unfortunately I can't provide any evidence other than my own account of what happened in front of me back in Alaska. I don't want too say to much other than I was convinced that something "supernatural" was going on with her, but unlike her parents, I didn't think it was a demon.

Her parents were both mentally ill alcoholics; the father being a schizophrenic and the mother being bipolar; both of them were devout Russian Catholics. Both their children were odd; the daughter more so. She became convinced that she had a demon residing in her, and she ended up believing in it so much that it began to effect her body and grant her superhuman physical abilities.

Personally, I don't believe in demons. But I do believe in delusions of granduer being so powerful that they have an observable impact on reality....or, "reality".

I definitely believe there's at least a little merit to the words of Edgar Allan Poe when he said "All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."

.....And we're all "super" in our dreams.

....Just some fun stuff to think about and ponder; nothing all that serious. :=I:

Oshii
29 Mar 2019, 11:18
i'd rather live today with all the troubles we have now than even 50 years ago where life was significantly more difficult for anyone that wasn't a white male.

Hawkfeathers
29 Mar 2019, 15:32
i'd rather live today with all the troubles we have now than even 50 years ago where life was significantly more difficult for anyone that wasn't a white male.

50 years ago, in 7th grade, I was circulating petitions for girls to be allowed to wear pants to school. We won a lot of rights after that. By the time I finished college in 1979, I could sign a lease, buy a car, etc., without anyone else's signature. The general feeling was that we were on a forward climb and things were steadily improving. Today's situations are more like we've crested the summit and are plunging downwards.

monsno_leedra
29 Mar 2019, 16:29
50 years ago, in 7th grade, I was circulating petitions for girls to be allowed to wear pants to school. We won a lot of rights after that. By the time I finished college in 1979, I could sign a lease, buy a car, etc., without anyone else's signature. The general feeling was that we were on a forward climb and things were steadily improving. Today's situations are more like we've crested the summit and are plunging downwards.

It's funny in sort of a demented way but I know 1st and 2nd wave feminist who now swear they've gone backwards in gains across the board. Equality and equity of rights are being lost for women being women, especially for those who elect to stay at home and raise a family.

B. de Corbin
29 Mar 2019, 16:42
It is foolish to adhere to movements, waves, etc., it is better to chose to be. Nobody in any group will ever make you happy by being inthat group - but it is easy to fool one's self that one is happy to be in a group.

Just be. That is all you have to do. Just be, and the world will form itself around you.

Hawkfeathers
29 Mar 2019, 19:14
It's funny in sort of a demented way but I know 1st and 2nd wave feminist who now swear they've gone backwards in gains across the board. Equality and equity of rights are being lost for women being women, especially for those who elect to stay at home and raise a family.

I don't really know what all the "waves" are, but like I said, I feel we're going downhill or backwards now. People who have no idea what they couldn't do not too long ago take things for granted. But there's a lot of under the table discrimination on all counts - women, ageism, racism, etc.

"The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." - Billy Joel

Eleanor
30 Mar 2019, 03:25
It's funny in sort of a demented way but I know 1st and 2nd wave feminist who now swear they've gone backwards in gains across the board. Equality and equity of rights are being lost for women being women, especially for those who elect to stay at home and raise a family.
Yeah, as a woman you can't do anything right, no matter what you choose. I choose not to have children, and often people react really surprised when I tell them, because somehow society still thinks that having a child is a woman's biggest accomplishment... But then the women who do have children can't do it right either according to society. If they choose to work part time, so they can spend the other part time with the kids, they're called unambitious. If they choose to work full time and put the children in day care, they're called selfish (but not ambitious?).

The third wave is happening now and it's tackling the above. It's not only addressing women's issues, but all groups being treated unequally, like LGBTQ (did I get all the letters?) and black people. Hopefully after this 'wave' is over, society will finally accept people for who they are and that they will do whatever the hell they want to with their lives without being judgy about it.

monsno_leedra
30 Mar 2019, 05:03
Yeah, as a woman you can't do anything right, no matter what you choose. I choose not to have children, and often people react really surprised when I tell them, because somehow society still thinks that having a child is a woman's biggest accomplishment... But then the women who do have children can't do it right either according to society. If they choose to work part time, so they can spend the other part time with the kids, they're called unambitious. If they choose to work full time and put the children in day care, they're called selfish (but not ambitious?).

The third wave is happening now and it's tackling the above. It's not only addressing women's issues, but all groups being treated unequally, like LGBTQ (did I get all the letters?) and black people. Hopefully after this 'wave' is over, society will finally accept people for who they are and that they will do whatever the hell they want to with their lives without being judgy about it.

Actually since about 2012 you've been on what is loosely called 4th wave feminism now. It's more electronic backed I guess you could say is the separation marker between 3rd wave and 4th wave's creation point. They are utilizing mass media, the Net, and similar methodology but is more inclusive of other groupings as you pointed out. Ironically though some of the people I knew claimed under those descriptions it pushed the more fem-nazi's or what they were calling 4th wave towards I guess an alt 4th wave or maybe a 5th wave I suppose.

Unfortunately that inclusion is also what some older groups I think is what is driving them to say women are being thrown under the bus so to speak.

- - - Updated - - -


Nice; personally I'm a fan of underground homes for those reasons among others; no rotting wood to worry about, the roof is Earth so it's definitely strong enough and never needs repairing, and the walls of Earth are bulletproof, not to mention an excellent natural insulator. :o Best part is it's completely green and doesn't require cutting down any trees; just clay bricks or stones sealed together with mortar; then once the structure is built it's covered with soil and voila; underground home. :D--Sollomyn

This here has been nagging away at the back of my head for days to be honest. A underground house. In theory a good idea when built with modern construction methods. When built with old construction methods it's not such a good idea. Even with that nice earthen roof over top of it and a good layer of timbers to hold the roof in place. Well not unless you happen to be in a fairly arid region with little rain or a region with little ground water or seepage.

When I was younger we used to build underground structure's fairly often. Anything from 8 feet to a couple that were about 15 feet deep and as many feet across. Cover them with timber framed roofs and earth over top of that, good solid doomed shaped roofs upwards of a foot to a foot and a half of soil. Often trying to place them on the highest point and place the opening into them on the downward side so any rain would be running away from the opening to lessen the chance of coming into the structure.

During the dry periods they stayed dried. During the rainy periods if it was slow rain or mist they tended to stay dry as well as the seepage and infiltration rate through the ground was so slow it never amounted to anything. Yet when it was heavy and long rain periods they always had standing water in them if not totally flooded and collapsed. The weight of the cap along with the amount of water within the cap causes it to turn to mud and collapse within and through the wood supports. Depending upon the ground water levels and / or the slope of the land the movement of water into the void caused the water to collect in the void.

Even when we used rock or other things to pack the walls it didn't stop the movement of water.

Of course the alternate to that is any cavern or underground opening. Many of those of course do tend to stay high and dry during any type of weather but many also have choke points where water collects. Doesn't count your neighbors who also happen to already live in said caverns or cave structure's. Some large, some small. Nor does that take into consideration the movement of air which would influence smoke and it's by products depending upon the size of your cave / cavern.

Due to the nature of my Military job coding in the Navy I had the opportunity to work in a few underground situations. In one job I was more of a Site supervisor so was responsible for making rounds of the various areas. One of my responsibilities was to ensure the sump pumps turned on in a few of the areas that were cut from the native stone because they tended to fill up with ground water. Not at a great rate of flow but sufficient to do damage if left unchecked over time. Imagine if you had no way but manual to clear that mess and had to do it for hours on end.

So no, your underground homes are not as great as your making them out to be. Lots of dangers and potential fail points. Add in fecal matter to the equation, natural ground water due to rivers, lakes, ponds with seepage or similar and your just asking for trouble. None of that even touching upon wildlife that comes calling, especially if you have any sort of "Food" in your shelter.