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mathieu
29 Sep 2019, 08:40
Hello,

I planify to see again a shaman in some week.
What should i do in your opinion to make it has efficient as possible?

Juniper
29 Sep 2019, 17:12
Hello,

I planify to see again a shaman in some week.
What should i do in your opinion to make it has efficient as possible?

That depends on your intent and goal. I'm not going to ask what you're wanting to see them for. That's between you and the practitioner.

What type of Shaman are you meeting? I presume you've met with a Shaman before, based on you saying "again". If so, how do you feel the last meeting went? Was it a good experience or a bad one? Based on your last experience, what do you feel could have gone differently?

paganus
29 Sep 2019, 21:35
Pray to your ancestors [dead relatives]. That's what we do in my culture. The shaman is the connection between our world and the spirit world. Ask your ancestors to help the shaman do his work as a connection between the two world, so the shaman can help you better. Talk to your ancestors first, and tell them what you need, what you need the shaman to do for you.

mathieu
01 Oct 2019, 07:47
What type of Shaman are you meeting? I presume you've met with a Shaman before, based on you saying "again". If so, how do you feel the last meeting went? Was it a good experience or a bad one? Based on your last experience, what do you feel could have gone differently?


I trully don't know exactly what type of shaman he is.
A mix between many stuff like taoisme, shiatsu and other stuff. He plays drum and song like a shaman but he probably doesn't belong to the shamanism.

I feel nothing special during three or for day and one morning, wahoo it's like I took off a veil.

It's just maybe i wasn't that focus into it during the seance or i get hesitation.

- - - Updated - - -


Pray to your ancestors [dead relatives]. That's what we do in my culture. The shaman is the connection between our world and the spirit world. Ask your ancestors to help the shaman do his work as a connection between the two world, so the shaman can help you better. Talk to your ancestors first, and tell them what you need, what you need the shaman to do for you.


Thanks for your answear, I will try to do it and purify a bit myself before.

monsno_leedra
01 Oct 2019, 12:11
I trully don't know exactly what type of shaman he is.
A mix between many stuff like taoisme, shiatsu and other stuff. He plays drum and song like a shaman but he probably doesn't belong to the shamanism.

I feel nothing special during three or for day and one morning, wahoo it's like I took off a veil.

It's just maybe i wasn't that focus into it during the seance or i get hesitation.

- - - Updated - - -




Thanks for your answear, I will try to do it and purify a bit myself before.

I must admit now you have my curiosity up.

Drumming and singing have become pretty much common place and are found in many new age things as well as many plastic shamanic practices. So the inclusion of either really is not suggestive of it being shamanic in nature. Heck, many want-a-bee Indian's use drumming circles now a days as part of 24 hour long Vision Quest programs.

Then the inclusion of a seance is really not a shamanic function either. Though I admit you haven't exactly stated what your defining a seance to be so I am left to use my own description and understanding of what one is. But for me it implies the usage of a "Medium" who will channel the departed spirits and may or may not actually employ a connected ring of people. Whether those spirits are "Ancestors", land spirits, restless dead, general dead, or channeled aliens depends upon what is in style I suppose.

But in general a shaman in trance is definitely not a seance. He / she is walking the dimensions or seeking counsel with his / her guides or allies. In my experience there is not a whole lot of the person asking questions during the trance stage as you have to ask or pose your inquiry prior to him / her going into journey to gain information pertaining to your inquiry. For example for myself depending upon which allies or guides I am working with I will interact very little with the person and just tell them information to have detailed exchanges where they can ask some questions. But it also depends upon the nature of their queries.

Also depending upon how deeply I am taken into journey / trance it is almost like an oracle speaking. I become a hollow bone / talking stick and it is all one sided. If the query is sloppy then you get a sloppy answer or no answer, if the query is clean then you get a clean answer.

Rhythm
02 Oct 2019, 04:04
Language barrier, but am I reading that you went to see a shaman, and, for whatever reason, it didn't "work"? That you didn;t feel anything special?

Perhaps the issue isn't with you. It's a cruel assumption that we make in these sorts of contexts that the failure of some spell or cantrip is our failure, rather than the practitioners.

Or, I read that totally wrong.

mathieu
02 Oct 2019, 08:02
Language barrier, but am I reading that you went to see a shaman, and, for whatever reason, it didn't "work"? That you didn;t feel anything special?

Perhaps the issue isn't with you. It's a cruel assumption that we make in these sorts of contexts that the failure of some spell or cantrip is our failure, rather than the practitioners.

Or, I read that totally wrong.


Sorry for my english :)

it worked in a pretty good way. The "shaman" clean myself from bad energy or bad stuff who were on me. I don't know how explain what happened but something happened.
He told me to come a second times because he felt i would need it, so i will surelly go again.
But as I want to take the best of it I came from advice.

But you are right, in fact it's the second "shaman" i see. And with the first, i made a kind of journey to get answear to some questions. But I don't feel anything special.
With the second, i was laying on my stomach, he dance, sing, play drum around me, burn some stuff, make very strange noise :) scream and cry too... It can even be scaring lol. At a moment he make think about something and make me talk with the people.
And it worked very nicely 4 days after :)

- - - Updated - - -


I must admit now you have my curiosity up.

Drumming and singing have become pretty much common place and are found in many new age things as well as many plastic shamanic practices. So the inclusion of either really is not suggestive of it being shamanic in nature. Heck, many want-a-bee Indian's use drumming circles now a days as part of 24 hour long Vision Quest programs.

Then the inclusion of a seance is really not a shamanic function either. Though I admit you haven't exactly stated what your defining a seance to be so I am left to use my own description and understanding of what one is. But for me it implies the usage of a "Medium" who will channel the departed spirits and may or may not actually employ a connected ring of people. Whether those spirits are "Ancestors", land spirits, restless dead, general dead, or channeled aliens depends upon what is in style I suppose.

But in general a shaman in trance is definitely not a seance. He / she is walking the dimensions or seeking counsel with his / her guides or allies. In my experience there is not a whole lot of the person asking questions during the trance stage as you have to ask or pose your inquiry prior to him / her going into journey to gain information pertaining to your inquiry. For example for myself depending upon which allies or guides I am working with I will interact very little with the person and just tell them information to have detailed exchanges where they can ask some questions. But it also depends upon the nature of their queries.

Also depending upon how deeply I am taken into journey / trance it is almost like an oracle speaking. I become a hollow bone / talking stick and it is all one sided. If the query is sloppy then you get a sloppy answer or no answer, if the query is clean then you get a clean answer.




So maybe he is not "a pur shaman", if it even exist.
When I talk to him about his beleifs, he spoke about taoism, energy, spirit differents stuffs and told he does'nt belong in any case.

The seance took place like this with him:
We sit together and he hold my wrist while talking to me about my problems.
I was laying on my stomach, he dance, sing, play drum around me, burn some stuff, make very strange noise :) scream and cry too... It can even be scaring lol. At a moment he make think about something and make me talk with the people.
And it worked very nicely 4 days after :)

paganus
02 Oct 2019, 08:49
Is it something like this Mathieu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFqjmlTeY7U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFqjmlTeY7U)

monsno_leedra
02 Oct 2019, 08:56
.. So maybe he is not "a pur shaman", if it even exist.
When I talk to him about his beleifs, he spoke about taoism, energy, spirit differents stuffs and told he does'nt belong in any case.

The seance took place like this with him:
We sit together and he hold my wrist while talking to me about my problems.
I was laying on my stomach, he dance, sing, play drum around me, burn some stuff, make very strange noise :) scream and cry too... It can even be scaring lol. At a moment he make think about something and make me talk with the people.
And it worked very nicely 4 days after :)

Yeah that definitely is not a seance

The screams, strange noises, cries, etc sounds like what he would go through to both get in contact with his guides / allies and journey to the spirit world. Depending upon the calling he may or may not have worn a regalia with his tokens / charms / ornaments, etc. That could be something as minor as jewelry and tattoo's to something as ornate and complex as animal skins, claws, talons, skulls, feathers, etc. Drums, rattles, shakers, bells or similar things to make a beat like sound are also used by different practitioners and methodologies. They can be used by the person themselves or by assistants. I've seen it done and have done it myself where you use smoke and shadows or fog and shadows to gain a similar effect. The shadows become the "ancestors" or "Spirits" the person is talking to in the shifting / swirling mass and the wind becomes their voices. The practitioner is moving and twisting through the mist / fog / smoke and is "Speaking" as they are being ridden / horsed. Yes it can be extremely scary in that regard for you don't know who or what will come out of the fog / mist / smoke.

To me, this is just my perspective here understand, being on your stomach your in the same sort of blindness. Your vision is clouded but in this case but orientation and angle of observance. Your hearing is also clouded or fogged in that noise is above you and disoriented as you have to strain to hear it. It actually goes over you, not on a level equal with you. You don't specify if inside or outside so I assume inside but if outside then a degree of movement and disorientation is caused by foreign matter that is kicked up. If inside there is still that idea of disorientation caused by movement about the body and vibration through the floor as the beat is directed into the body by weight hitting as the practitioner moves about you. It impacts upon you as a physical force, an air force, an audio force upon your ears, a psychological force but also an in-balancing force.

Figure part of the area the practitioner is trying to touch is your own astral plain. When he journeys to find answers he will journey not only to the spirit realm but will journey to the part of the spirit realm that touches upon your own internal astral plain. For when you have issue many times those issue will also lay buried within, concealed there. At times that is where physical touch will come into play in establishing a link to you. Sort of a psychic touch if you will.

As to how quickly things will work, to be honest that will often depend upon what you've asked the person to do. Often it will also depend upon what you believe will happen and how deeply you believe in it yourself.

mathieu
03 Oct 2019, 06:55
Is it something like this Mathieu:





It was more like this
zDz4jUiP4-Q

Sorry i can't post link, it's the end of the youtube name video in french

paganus
03 Oct 2019, 08:52
It was more like this
zDz4jUiP4-Q

Sorry i can't post link, it's the end of the youtube name video in french

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDz4jUiP4-Q

Oh, I thought is was a traditional folk Chinese 'shaman'. You're in France.

Just be cautious, and ensure that the shaman is "authentic."

monsno_leedra
03 Oct 2019, 11:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDz4jUiP4-Q

Oh, I thought is was a traditional folk Chinese 'shaman'. You're in France.

Just be cautious, and ensure that the shaman is "authentic."

Mathieu couldn't post links so thank you for posting his link, though you might find the admins say something. But then again may not.

Anyway though i'd touch on a few points I noticed in the video and maybe other's will add to the discussion and maybe that will aid Mathieu. I add the disclaimer these "Thoughts" are based upon my observations and experiences so are not meant to be the only way nor imply my way is the correct observation of what is occurring.

I notice the practitioner is smudging the area with a bundle of what appears to be "sage". From what I can see of it I'd presume it is white sage. That has sort of become a generic go to for cleansing of ritual space now. However it is not the only one that is used. Using the sage bundle to "sweep" the area over the person to be "assisted".

The usage of the drum here and the beat meter is sort of high to me to be honest. I say that because of what the practitioner is doing by having the person lay down to slow their breathing down. Unless the practitioner is trying to summon their allies and attain their mindset at this point (possible as the video is choppy).

To me when the practitioner starts running their hands over the person's head and down their body they are performing either auric work (something like therapeutic touch or Reiki healing) or chakra work. All three have similar practices of methodologies but actual application may vary from individual to individual or school of training. Later in the video you'll see her pulling from the body upwards and outwards from the head. Though it gets lost real quick as the practitioner then grabs her own hair to pull it back from her face. An action that how I was taught would actually mean she would have taken what ever she pulled from the person into her own body by touching her own. That's just an observation that jumped out at me, so take that with a grain of salt.

But all that auric type work would be healing her auric body and stripping away any cling on's that have attached themselves to her.

At one point the practitioner lays next to the person and seem's to almost touch head to head while she beats the drum. Not completely sure but it makes me think of when you try to connect mentally and match thoughts.

The flame (candle) over her feet just a guess is also purification but also grounding.

It's not shown clearly in the video but I wonder if the blanket didn't start out at her feet then was pulled up over her body as the ritual / ceremony progressed. In that capacity it becomes something like a protective womb enveloping her body but also like the auric body grows warm and healed to surround and protect her. During the video you see it lowered to about her waist with her arms outside the video and shown palm down. Then later it is up to about her neck and her arms are inside and covered.

The beat meter definitely changes near the end of the video to a series of beats then a pause then repeats.

I admit I am curious as to what the two bottles contained. I suspect they were some sort of oil but could not tell. You never see the white bowl being used during the video either.

Would be curious to know exactly what was being said my French is awful as I haven't taken French since high school and that was back in the mid 70's.

But in general I'd say this video was about cleansing and general health care of the auric body / spirit. But of course this is all my perspective and opinion from what I see happening so admit I could be wrong.

mathieu
03 Oct 2019, 11:43
You description fit pretty well what we did.
I assume it was more a cleaning practice than a shamanism one?

monsno_leedra
03 Oct 2019, 12:37
You description fit pretty well what we did.
I assume it was more a cleaning practice than a shamanism one?

Many Shamanic rituals / ceremonies are preceded by cleansing rituals that are technically similar to what was shown here. The issue I suppose is that there is no clear point I suppose that states this is a shamanic ritual and this is a ______ ritual. You can fill the blank in with nearly anything.

I've seen where Christian mystic's who retreated into the "wilds" to receive vision's have done exactly the same things as Native American's who went on Vision Quest have done to receive their Visions. Each also goes through a period of "Cleansing & Purification" as part of their questing. Other pathway's include lesser cleansing rituals such as simple baths and fastings prior to ceremonies & rituals. Unfortunately some require death as a precursor as the cleansing ritual which marks it as a shamanic ceremony. That was mine, I died in my youth then came close a few more times.

One thing I'd advise though is if you are going to a practitioner have a specific question in mind. It sounds like you've been cleansed and purified already. Though not sure how long ago that actually was now. If to long it is possible a true practitioner might tell you that you need to do it again before they will aid you. If your paying for things they might tell you that it is needed simply to milk you out of money.

But most of all don't presume someone is legitimate simply because they say they are or because they claim to have been trained by someone. Their are people out there who claim to be from various nation's teaching people how to be "shaman" who have been disowned by those nations. People teaching who have made up complete practices and claim to be taught after living with various groups. Other's who've gotten training from who knows where or from family lineages that are composites of various influences.

Shamanism exploded on the occult market in the late 90's and 2000's and really begin to be included in nearly all forms of paganism after that. Everyone suddenly had to have a totem and power animal or something similar. Guides and some form of journey or world walking / guided meditations became the rage it seemed. It has been going strong since then and shamanic practitioners are all over now. About the only thing that has competed with them is the influence of African Traditional Practice (ATR) influences. Nearly all of your shamanic influences now seem to have a lot of Native American influences such as the usage of sage for purification for instance.

mathieu
04 Oct 2019, 09:04
Well you had a point, but I don' tthink the guy i'am going to see for a second time is a scam. Because differents people tolds me good things about him. And it seems to works for me, just i'am coming from far away :)

Maybe as i'am new to it we only do the cleaning ritual but maybe we can do more things later when i would have improve myself.

monsno_leedra
04 Oct 2019, 10:10
Well you had a point, but I don' tthink the guy i'am going to see for a second time is a scam. Because differents people tolds me good things about him. And it seems to works for me, just i'am coming from far away :)

Maybe as i'am new to it we only do the cleaning ritual but maybe we can do more things later when i would have improve myself.

That's the big thing, that it works for you.

As to him being a scammer or such, well you'll have to make that determination to be honest. That's the bad part about many practitioners. Shamanism at it's core is usually designed to be a living practice, not a belief or religious system. It usually exists within the frame work of a system where the Shaman works in conjunction with the religious people of the system. The Shaman reading the spirits and walking the worlds to aid the religious side of the society. They often exist on the fringes of their societies but are still very important parts of their societies. However, they still pray to the same divinities as the member's of the societies they support and are a part of.

Today you find a lot of people who have made Shamanism a religion vice a practice that supports its society. Because of how it is working many practitioner's have no tribe / nation or group they are actually associated with nor are directly supporting. There is no social / cultural / heritage that binds them to the people they are tied to. Word of mouth is one thing regarding his / her abilities and success. But it doesn't touch what happens when his / her allies , guides, powers / medicine is seen in action by multiple people and witnessed over and over. Especially when it is also in support of the religious side of the community of other shamanic practitioners in the community who do things that would cover healings, fecundity & fertility, warrior cults, blood rights & moon time, death rites, spirit keeping, etc.

Maybe you can do more things when you grow and improve yourself. But never allow yourself to open your mind to the point that your brain falls out in order to believe what someone is telling you or trying to sell you. A good scam artist will sell you a product and make you want it, just a he / she has sold it to others before you. Not saying he is not saying he isn't, trust your own judgement.

All I'll say for certain is I have no horse in this race. Not asking for no payment nor gifting. Tell me what you can and I'll do my best to tell you what I think you where exposed to and that is all I can offer. That and do my best to give you an idea of what I think the process is meant to do based upon my experiences or what you might get out of them. No more no less, then leave it up to you as to what you can take from my answers.

I don't do workings over the net. But, as a practitioner this site is part of my group and I do my best to aide and assist those in my group as I can.

MaskedOne
08 Oct 2019, 08:58
Mathieu couldn't post links so thank you for posting his link, though you might find the admins say something. But then again may not.

Anyway though i'd touch on a few points I noticed in the video and maybe other's will add to the discussion and maybe that will aid Mathieu. I add the disclaimer these "Thoughts" are based upon my observations and experiences so are not meant to be the only way nor imply my way is the correct observation of what is occurring.

I notice the practitioner is smudging the area with a bundle of what appears to be "sage". From what I can see of it I'd presume it is white sage. That has sort of become a generic go to for cleansing of ritual space now. However it is not the only one that is used. Using the sage bundle to "sweep" the area over the person to be "assisted".

The usage of the drum here and the beat meter is sort of high to me to be honest. I say that because of what the practitioner is doing by having the person lay down to slow their breathing down. Unless the practitioner is trying to summon their allies and attain their mindset at this point (possible as the video is choppy).

To me when the practitioner starts running their hands over the person's head and down their body they are performing either auric work (something like therapeutic touch or Reiki healing) or chakra work. All three have similar practices of methodologies but actual application may vary from individual to individual or school of training. Later in the video you'll see her pulling from the body upwards and outwards from the head. Though it gets lost real quick as the practitioner then grabs her own hair to pull it back from her face. An action that how I was taught would actually mean she would have taken what ever she pulled from the person into her own body by touching her own. That's just an observation that jumped out at me, so take that with a grain of salt.

But all that auric type work would be healing her auric body and stripping away any cling on's that have attached themselves to her.

At one point the practitioner lays next to the person and seem's to almost touch head to head while she beats the drum. Not completely sure but it makes me think of when you try to connect mentally and match thoughts.

The flame (candle) over her feet just a guess is also purification but also grounding.

It's not shown clearly in the video but I wonder if the blanket didn't start out at her feet then was pulled up over her body as the ritual / ceremony progressed. In that capacity it becomes something like a protective womb enveloping her body but also like the auric body grows warm and healed to surround and protect her. During the video you see it lowered to about her waist with her arms outside the video and shown palm down. Then later it is up to about her neck and her arms are inside and covered.

The beat meter definitely changes near the end of the video to a series of beats then a pause then repeats.

I admit I am curious as to what the two bottles contained. I suspect they were some sort of oil but could not tell. You never see the white bowl being used during the video either.

Would be curious to know exactly what was being said my French is awful as I haven't taken French since high school and that was back in the mid 70's.

But in general I'd say this video was about cleansing and general health care of the auric body / spirit. But of course this is all my perspective and opinion from what I see happening so admit I could be wrong.

For the most part, I'm not worried if a member with linking rights posts something for someone who hasn't gained them yet. The only real caveat here is that if you are linking something for another member then you are responsible for the linked content and if a mod or admin takes issue with what you have posted then we hold you to account before addressing whichever new member you may be helping out. Long as you review the link and make sure that I'm not going to be reaching for my ban weapons if I visit it then you're generally fine.