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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant - Guilty of Rape (or not)?



Bartmanhomer
26 Jan 2020, 18:55
Ok, I just don't understand why so many people are persecuting and crucifying Kobe Bryant for being a rapist. He was never charged for any rape whatsoever and idiots are still saying that crap. Look I don't really care what everybody else thinks what Kobe did but he's no rapist. Leave him at peace already. :mad:

Shahaku
27 Jan 2020, 15:43
Because men in power have a tendency to get away with abusing that power. And being dead doesn't change the fact that he could have done those things. Doing those things also doesn't change his sports status and doesn't have to change anyone's opinion of him as an athlete. It should change people's opinion if him as a person.

Bartmanhomer
27 Jan 2020, 15:58
Because men in power have a tendency to get away with abusing that power. And being dead doesn't change the fact that he could have done those things. Doing those things also doesn't change his sports status and doesn't have to change anyone's opinion of him as an athlete. It should change people's opinion if him as a person.

And yet he was never convicted of that rape at all. I'm sick and tired of people always blame some celebrity for such asinine and bullcrap accusation and people play the victim for lies to get 15 minutes of fame. As I said I don't believe any of this so-called rape and I'm not going to jump the bandwagon and blame Kobe for such lies. :mad:

Shahaku
27 Jan 2020, 16:24
Do you have any idea how rare false accusations are?

Bartmanhomer
27 Jan 2020, 16:30
Do you have any idea how rare false accusations are?

No, tell me.

anubisa
27 Jan 2020, 17:33
It's not just Kobe Bryant that has been accused of rape. There has been R. Kelly, which has had a document series. You can see it under Surviving R. Kelly. There are so many woman who have accounted for his abuse. There are also other higher-ups. Not just Kobe Bryant and R. Kelly. Like movie producers and such. No one I think is trying to make Kobe Bryant look bad, but you can't doubt those who are making it either. Sticking to one side isn't fair. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but don't blame the accuser either. Let's not look back on the negative, let's pray that his family gets through the pain of losing their loved ones.

Bartmanhomer
27 Jan 2020, 17:37
It's not just Kobe Bryant that has been accused of rape. There has been R. Kelly, which has had a document series. You can see it under Surviving R. Kelly. There are so many woman who have accounted for his abuse. There are also other higher-ups. Not just Kobe Bryant and R. Kelly. Like movie producers and such. No one I think is trying to make Kobe Bryant look bad, but you can't doubt those who are making it either. Sticking to one side isn't fair. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but don't blame the accuser either. Let's not look back on the negative, let's pray that his family gets through the pain of losing their loved ones.

Oh I know that R. Kelly is guility for his crimes. I don't support R. Kelly in no way shape or form. :mad:

Shahaku
27 Jan 2020, 19:08
No, tell me.

Out of every 200 rapes, you may have 1 false allegation. Half a percent.

Bartmanhomer
27 Jan 2020, 20:05
Out of every 200 rapes, you may have 1 false allegation. Half a percent.

Bullcrap. :mad:

anubisa
27 Jan 2020, 23:07
That's going a little over the line. Women become victimized that they don't make any charges or say anything and when they finally do they are viewed as liars or making false allegations. This is ridiculous. Do not make the victims out to be enemies. We never can know what the situation is, but we cannot blame the victims.

Prickly Pear
28 Jan 2020, 15:08
The price for reporting is brutal, and there is little guaranty that there is a conviction. I don't mean financial cost, although that can be a reality. It is the accusations of lying, the process of reliving trauma over again, of humiliation and having the most personal intimate details of your body and your life judged. Literally photographs of your body as evidence. Victim blaming is real. I've known many, many rape victims/survivors both personally and through professional work. Most did not chose to involve authorities, partly because of denial as a coping mechanism, and partly because they just want it over with and do not want to relive it or suffer the consequences of legal/police action. I have seen a number of people try to deal with it through their churches, or were children only given that option. This generally doesn't go so well for the victim either.

I absolutely believe that sometimes people lie about having been raped. But not anywhere near the number of people who don't report due to fear and shame and denial.

In the Kobe Bryant case, the woman who reported was something of a hero for coming forward, because it was unlikely that she would be treated with any respect accusing a sports hero. She was trash talked and outed everywhere. Eventually, she dropped criminal charges even though there was an unusually good supply of forensic evidence. She did pursue civil charges. Kobe Bryant himself publicly admitted that the incident had occurred. He claimed that he did not realize that she was not consenting. He apologized for causing her physical and emotional pain. He publicly stated that she was not in it for money or fame or revenge, but simply because she was traumatized and wanted justice. I saw this again yesterday and I know it was a legally agreed statement, but I can't help thinking that it is more than most people get now. There is nothing wrong with grieving what Kobe Bryant meant to you, but it doesn't mean he didn't do it.

I do think that as a society we are struggling with supporting an accuser and supporting rule of law and presumption of innocence at the same time. I guess it is just difficult for many people to hold two opposing ideals at the same time. It is also frustrating when we see public figures blatantly breaking the law and laughing at the idea of being held to justice.

MaskedOne
28 Jan 2020, 16:06
We've done the whole false accusation topic before. I don't have anything new to say since the topic was raised in 2018 so...


A bit late but

https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/

makes for an interesting read regarding false rape claims. It covers both their rarity and what they actually tend to look like when they happen. I encourage reading the whole thing but one interesting point is that false charges rarely go far



Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they donít involve is countless innocent menís lives being ruined.)


This isn't to say that no one is ever convicted falsely of rape. Going off US stats, the National Registry of Exonerations records 52 people exonerated after a conviction of sexual assault. So people have been falsely convicted. Just remember that the Registry started in 1989. So that's 52 people exonerated after conviction in just shy of 30 years. By contrast, 790 people have been exonerated after convictions of murder in the same time period.

Juniper
28 Jan 2020, 16:27
This is now the new home for this discussion.

Bartmanhomer
28 Jan 2020, 16:32
False accusations happen all the time especially celebrities. Even if Kobe did admit to having sexual interactions with her: It was consensual.

Juniper
28 Jan 2020, 16:56
Please post some credible facts that back up your claim that false accusations happen all the time.

Bartmanhomer
28 Jan 2020, 18:09
Please post some credible facts that back up your claim that false accusations happen all the time.

Take Michael Jackson for example. He was accused for molestation twice. One that he got arrested for but was acquitted because of the lack of evidence. Then many years later after Michael death two so called victims come forward and accuse him for molesting them in 1992? Ok I don't understand why not coming forward in 1992 and tell somebody and reported this accusation in 1992 when Michael was alive? It really doesn't make any sense at all to come forward many years later to make up a complete lie and accuse him when he's not alive anymore. :mad:

- - - Updated - - -

Also the Me Too Movement is somewhat of a witchhunt. These victims accuse many celebrities such as Mariah Carey, Kevin Spacey, Charlie Sheen and many others for the same accusation. I don't believe any of these accusations are true. :mad:

anubisa
28 Jan 2020, 18:57
We'll never know about some people unfortunately. Michael Jackson was one of my favorite artists. We don't know if the people who came out did it because they were victims or not. All I know is that we need to not rush into judgement too quickly. There are a lot of negative things that people want to focus on that probably are true, but we can't know that. I say that we don't judge either side too quickly before we get the facts. Well I don't think we should judge at all, but that is neither here or there. The point is that we can't judge until we know all the facts and make sure they are credible.

Juniper
28 Jan 2020, 20:49
Take Michael Jackson for example. He was accused for molestation twice. One that he got arrested for but was acquitted because of the lack of evidence. Then many years later after Michael death two so called victims come forward and accuse him for molesting them in 1992? Ok I don't understand why not coming forward in 1992 and tell somebody and reported this accusation in 1992 when Michael was alive? It really doesn't make any sense at all to come forward many years later to make up a complete lie and accuse him when he's not alive anymore. :mad:

- - - Updated - - -

Also the Me Too Movement is somewhat of a witchhunt. These victims accuse many celebrities such as Mariah Carey, Kevin Spacey, Charlie Sheen and many others for the same accusation. I don't believe any of these accusations are true. :mad:

This line of thinking is part of the problem. Are you crying because men's reputations are being ruined because of these allegations? What about the victims who come forward? They are scrutinized even more by the public. Sometimes so much that they are being shamed into dropping charges because of the harassment they are getting.

Reporting sexual crimes comes with such a stigma that many don't bother reporting them. Those that do come forward should be believed and the situation should be investigated. I do, however, think that these crimes should be investigated discretely and only made public when evidence that supports the accusation has been found.

Bartmanhomer
28 Jan 2020, 20:54
This line of thinking is part of the problem. Are you crying because men's reputations are being ruined because of these allegations? What about the victims who come forward? They are scrutinized even more by the public. Sometimes so much that they are being shamed into dropping charges because of the harassment they are getting.

Reporting sexual crimes comes with such a stigma that many don't bother reporting them. Those that do come forward should be believed and the situation should be investigated. I do, however, think that these crimes should be investigated discreetly and only made public when evidence that supports the accusation has been found.

If the story is accurate and makes sense then I'll believe who more believable. They're two sides of the story and I'll judge for myself by believing who is more believable.

Rhythm
29 Jan 2020, 03:55
I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

-Kobe Bryant.

Prickly Pear
29 Jan 2020, 13:06
Consider the possibility in the MJ case that the victims were children at the time. That their parents/guardians considered it acceptable for them to travel and have unsupervised sleepovers with an adult, to the extent that they went on tour with him. Consider that the parents perhaps had fame and money in sight and not the best interests of the children. Or maybe the parents decided that the publicity and court procedures would inflict even more harm to the children. These were children who had no way of knowing how to navigate the situation, and their guardians decided what to do. So the guardians handled it, settling for money. Then, as adults, and understanding the reality of what happened to them, they decide to come forward. Maybe for money or attention, but maybe because they are old enough to realize that they are important enough to have the truth out. Maybe they want to protect other children who are swept under the rug because of money and power and fame.

I can't tell you what happened for sure. True enough. In fact, I find it painful to think it of someone who was so talented and dedicated and delighted me with his work. But I cannot assume that they are lying. I have to live somewhere in the middle, with an uncomfortable realization that it is entirely plausible and either way, someone did something vile.

Shahaku
29 Jan 2020, 19:36
I was sexually assaulted for four years growing up. I told no one. Because when my mom asked my six year old self if the person (who was five years older than me) had been "messing around with me" the way they had that other girl on the bus, she was beyond angry and I had no way of knowing she wasn't angry with me. And by the time I knew enough to look back and realize her anger was at him, not me, I also realized my dad would kill him if he found out, and then land in prison. And at that point we were moving half way across the country, and telling wouldn't have changed anything. I was 10. I knew at 10 that it was best to keep my mouth shut.

Your stance is insulting and you are part of the problem.

Bartmanhomer
29 Jan 2020, 20:42
I was sexually assaulted for four years growing up. I told no one. Because when my mom asked my six year old self if the person (who was five years older than me) had been "messing around with me" the way they had that other girl on the bus, she was beyond angry and I had no way of knowing she wasn't angry with me. And by the time I knew enough to look back and realize her anger was at him, not me, I also realized my dad would kill him if he found out, and then land in prison. And at that point we were moving half way across the country, and telling wouldn't have changed anything. I was 10. I knew at 10 that it was best to keep my mouth shut.

Your stance is insulting and you are part of the problem.

I'm so sorry to hear that. :(