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Roknrol
22 Mar 2011, 15:18
I've decided that I'm disgusted with the world that we live in.

Ok...I was disgusted with the world before now, but I've got a newfound gripe:

So I'm a problem solver...I like to "solve for x", I enjoy figuring out "whodunnit" before the last chapter, and I'm notorious for predicting the so-called "twists" in movies today.

So why am I bitching, when there are so many real mysteries in the world that need to be solved? Lost money? Lost people? Interesting artifacts for which there is no apparent purpose? Statues, carvings, bones, and strange fossils are covering (and buried beneath) our planet, so what in the world would I have to complain about?

Ghosts. And Aliens. And any other "easy" solution for any of these mysteries seems to flood the fact with made-up horseshit ("An expert ghost hunter has stated that he believes the statues on Easter Island were carved and placed by Aliens"), followed by speculation from someone even less qualified ("Frank, my hairdresser, disagrees and believes that they were created by the undead zombies that the Polynesians accidentally created before they rand out of food and died.").

What. In. The. Fuck. Is. Wrong. With. The. FACTS?!?!?! Just the goddamned facts. I don't need guesswork by some twit that discovered they could talk to ghosts when they were growing up an only child in an old home in a windy city. I don't need some self-proclaimed expert in a non-existent field claiming to have all of the answers without any substance to their claims (or of course, proof...there's never any proof).

Aren't there enough fucking places for people to speculate on alien life and ghosts? Aren't there enough places on the 'net to discuss these things without cluttering legitimate inquiry?

*sigh*...maybe I'm just turning into (more of) a douchebag as I get older, but I'm finding it more and more difficult to find good places to have discussions about mysterious topics that DON'T include God or the rest of the "supernatural".

Why does it piss me off? It pisses me off because once you've decided that the only solution to a mystery is something that's even more evasive and mysterious, you've accomplished nothing more than overcomplicating something that's probably very simple. It probably wouldn't bother me much if the supernatural comments were relegated to a paragraph or a few sentences, but after finding no less than 5 sites purporting to have lists of current mysteries in the world and having every god damned one of them dismiss the science almost immediately for the "better story". Good stories might be entertaining, but they don't do a god damned thing for solving problems (usually).

/rant

Taiga Pagan
22 Mar 2011, 15:58
Agree! Finding people with knowledge of universal mecanics of reality is freaking hard.

By the way Rok... just to know if you are a realistic person, answer me this question...
Does 1+1=2 is real or is it (n1-->1)+(n2-->1)=(n3-->2) that is real?
I'll know then if you are a douchebag, which I doubt you'll screw-up on this. Give yourself some credit!

Caelia
22 Mar 2011, 16:02
But-but-but when I was having tea with Bigfoot just earlier this month he told me he knew a guy who knew a guy who heard from his hairdresser that the Easter Island heads were put there by the Loch Ness Monster to distract people from crop circles. Which, by the way, was really part of Loch Ness Monster's failed lawncare business.

In seriousness, it reminds me of a really crummy indie film I saw over a year ago. There was a woman who had bare minimum education, married young, was left alone for the winter in the wilderness of Australia. She finally decides to leave and wandered off. She believed in lots of supernatural things and thought the sun setting was some ghost or other supernatural being taking it. Somehow she ends up finding her grandmother who explains how the world really works, rotation and orbiting, etc. She ends up returning home with a broader understanding of her world and a lot less mystified.

My point? While I believe in the existence of ghosts and some believe in the existence of aliens the people who take it to THAT extreme are trying to find answers based on what they know. For some people that changes with more information, and some feel since they experienced it that way it's all they need to know. Sometimes going beyond that is a feat of courage in and of itself for some. Sometimes they don't want to explore it further for no reason at all. The way to deal with it? The same way I deal with the people who say LaVeyan Satanists are Pagan on the basis they don't worship the God of Abraham: laugh, then click one of those browser buttons that leads me away.

Roknrol
22 Mar 2011, 16:22
Agree! Finding people with knowledge of universal mecanics of reality is freaking hard.

By the way Rok... just to know if you are a realistic person, answer me this question...
Does 1+1=2 is real or is it (n1-->1)+(n2-->1)=(n3-->2) that is real?
I'll know then if you are a douchebag, which I doubt you'll screw-up on this. Give yourself some credit!Oooh...it was my understanding when I came here that there would be no math :p Can I take a mulligan?

For the record, I learned in Algebra that numbers don't have inherent value, instead their value is implied through consistency. 1+1=3 for extremely large values of 1 :p



---------- Post added at 12:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------


But-but-but when I was having tea with Bigfoot just earlier this month he told me he knew a guy who knew a guy who heard from his hairdresser that the Easter Island heads were put there by the Loch Ness Monster to distract people from crop circles. Which, by the way, was really part of Loch Ness Monster's failed lawncare business.Bullshit - Bigfoot has been bedridden since Christmas so you *couldn't* possibly have had tea with him. Something tells me that you're not being nearly as forthright as you appear :p


In seriousness, it reminds me of a really crummy indie film I saw over a year ago. There was a woman who had bare minimum education, married young, was left alone for the winter in the wilderness of Australia. She finally decides to leave and wandered off. She believed in lots of supernatural things and thought the sun setting was some ghost or other supernatural being taking it. Somehow she ends up finding her grandmother who explains how the world really works, rotation and orbiting, etc. She ends up returning home with a broader understanding of her world and a lot less mystified.And this actually illustrates (poorly, but it's ok :p ) a point that I've intended to bring up in a lot of these Athiest/Believer threads: The psychological mind games...the making shit up "just to see"...the theorizing well outside of science...all of those things have their place within science. They can (not always, and dare I say, not very often) sometimes lead to the little grain of truth that helps you solve the real problem. I think I take issue when people stop thinking after the theorizing: "Where did the Universe come from? Well, IF God exists, then he probably created it. Yeah. That's gotta be it. God created the Universe."


My point? While I believe in the existence of ghosts and some believe in the existence of aliens the people who take it to THAT extreme are trying to find answers based on what they know. For some people that changes with more information, and some feel since they experienced it that way it's all they need to know. Sometimes going beyond that is a feat of courage in and of itself for some. Sometimes they don't want to explore it further for no reason at all. The way to deal with it? The same way I deal with the people who say LaVeyan Satanists are Pagan on the basis they don't worship the God of Abraham: laugh, then click one of those browser buttons that leads me away.I suppose you're right - to the man with a hammer, every problem is a nail.

And yes - I frequently do just that: Move right the fuck on. It's just so disturbing that there is so much of it. I checked five different websites before giving up (I was at work so I couldn't spend forever looking), and many of them were very professional looking - very "sciency"....until, of course, you see that of their menu items they have the following: "Unsolved Crimes", "Unsolved Ancient Mysteries", "Supernatural", "Aliens", "Supernatural Aliens", "Religion", "Spiritualism"...etc etc etc - when they're claiming that they're there to host the world's mysteries, I would expect a bit more "mystery" and a bit less "made up opinionated pretend-science". *sigh* :p

Shadow Dragon
22 Mar 2011, 17:04
I completely agree Rok. Some people just aren't happy with a simple answer. To them, there must always be some convoluted explanation that only they and a few others know.

cesara
22 Mar 2011, 17:42
Well, to be fair, science (well, math and chance, specifically) absolutely supports the potential existence of 'aliens'....intelligent ones at that.....now, whether we will ever, in the next miillion years, come across them, or they us.....is an entirely different issue..... ;)

That said....I so get what you mean....because, well, this Wiccan told me that aliens were here and their purpose is to protect us....mm hmm....mark my words....remember I said it here first!

Ophidia
22 Mar 2011, 18:58
I usually tell people, yes I believe in ghosts, and that I think they are dead people who cannot let go of the material world or people around them. Not know, but think.

Aliens, however... I would be relieved and grateful to someone who could prove to me conclusively that they do not exist and will not be visiting Earth any time soon. I've got too much inbred Southern redneck hillbilly in me and aliens hunt people like me down and abduct us. It's why I stay fat - I put more strain on the teleporters.

Roknrol
22 Mar 2011, 20:54
And yet, not one of you would be willing to attribute some historical mystery (such as, say, who Jack the Ripper was) and declare that he *must* have been an Alien...after all, who else could commit such horrible murders in an era known for it's forensic studies and during a time when the law was easily bought and not ever get caught?!?!?

I, too, believe in the existence of aliens...ghosts...eehhhh...notsomuch... ;)

DanieMarie
23 Mar 2011, 00:05
I don't know....if you avoid looking randomly on the net and stick to academic and respected journalistic sources (I've never seen an article like this in The Economist, which does have a science and technology section, or National Geographic) you don't see it.

And I think you actually get a lot LESS of it from the general public, it's just that people are able to post on the internet and express themselves globally so it's just more visible to you. Imagine arguing this stuff in a small town 60 years ago to some strictly religious people who didn't even have any access to the kind of info we have now.

All in all I'd say things are way better, but since we have a platform for anyone to be really vocal about their quack theories, it just -seems- a lot worse.

Also, it seems like this could also be a rant about the History Channel, in which case I understand your annoyance though the quack shows are a guilty pleasure of mine, because they're so stupidly hilarious, so I guess I'm contributing to the problem. I do miss the old days of the History Channel though too...maybe they need to split it and make like a Alien channel or something. All in all though, it's unfortunate because the History channel used to be a more niche channel that appealed to history buffs, but lately they seem to be trying to make a grab for the general public.

Dumuzi
23 Mar 2011, 00:56
You sound like me when someone claims aliens built the pyramids.
- omg, how else do u xplain how ppl bck then could moev those big rox???

Gee, I don't know. Perhaps, it's because they spent lots of time planning it out, instead of wasting their time on facebook making stupid misspelled updates all day long.

FantasyWitch
23 Mar 2011, 11:01
You sound like me when someone claims aliens built the pyramids.
- omg, how else do u xplain how ppl bck then could moev those big rox???

Gee, I don't know. Perhaps, it's because they spent lots of time planning it out, instead of wasting their time on facebook making stupid misspelled updates all day long.

If I were on facebook I would LIKE this :P x

Maythe
23 Mar 2011, 13:42
I went so far as to look for the 'like' button... dammit.

Roknrol
23 Mar 2011, 14:32
Exactly, Dumuzi - that's exactly the sort of shit that I'm talking about.

A little bit of planning and common sense can make it happen. There's a guy in England that hand-built his own version of Stonehenge using nothing but a bit of wood and rope - placed all of the stones and everything and didn't take him more than a couple of years. Dedicated groups of people can accomplish a whole lot more...but then again, when was the last time you saw a group of people that was dedicated to the same ideal (that actually had brains enough to implement them)?

Nothing like that happens anymore...people are too fucking lazy to even put the thought into how it would work, much less making it happen. Of course, those are the same people that invent "easy" solutions to complicated problems because well, after all, it's a helluva lot more fun and interesting to just make shit up than to actually crack open a goddamned book.

DanieMarie
23 Mar 2011, 14:42
I went so far as to look for the 'like' button... dammit.

LOL me too.

DANG FACEBOOK!

magusphredde
23 Mar 2011, 15:40
I like TAGGED ...

B. de Corbin
23 Mar 2011, 16:05
Well Rok, I'll tell ya...

One of the sad facts of the universe is this: No matter how smart human beings get, roughly half of them will always be of below average intellignence.

I know you don't want to do math here, but think about it for a minute - the conclusion is inevitable.

Shadow Dragon
23 Mar 2011, 16:10
Well Rok, I'll tell ya...

One of the sad facts of the universe is this: No matter how smart human beings get, roughly half of them will always be of below average intellignence.

I know you don't want to do math here, but think about it for a minute - the conclusion is inevitable.
Reminds me of a something that George Carlin once said. "Think of how stupid the average person is. Now realize that if that is the average person, than half the population is even dumber." I probably messed up that quote a little, but you get the point. :P