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Raphaeline
09 Oct 2010, 04:58
I've worshiped Dionysos for several years now; the beginning was blurry and not well-defined, and so I'll never really be sure when our relationship began. Feel free to ask any questions concerning Dionysos and his worship! The previous incarnation of this thread was a great help to me in terms of testing my knowledge and helping me get some perspective on things I've experienced, and I think others have gained some knowledge as well!

B. de Corbin
10 Oct 2010, 07:36
Can you give me a little general information? I know so little about what you do that I can't formulate a reasonable question - but I'm curious.

I must have overlooked the before thread... Now that we've got all this elbow room, I can start at the beginning ;D

Raphaeline
10 Oct 2010, 18:13
Can you give me a little general information? I know so little about what you do that I can't formulate a reasonable question - but I'm curious. I must have overlooked the before thread... Now that we've got all this elbow room, I can start at the beginning ;D


Absolutely! I probably should have elaborated in my original post about what I believe, anyhow... I'll try to give a short, broad summary of why I worship him and how.

Dionysos is my patron deity; the god that I worship above all others, who I call on for help regardless of the situation, who I celebrate most frequently. Dionysos represents madness and drunkenness as well as theatre, androgyny, fertility, indulgence, freedom and mystery, among a ton of other things. I can feel a personal connection to him through a lot of those things as part of my personality, beliefs, values, experiences, etc. For instance, Dionysos helps me understand and deal with my own tendency to indulge, he helps me deal with my fertility challenges (PCOS), helps me find my identity as bisexual, etc. What he represents, what he has experience with, are things I'm experiencing myself or traits or values I share. Long story short, we have a lot in common. Even simpler - he's my patron god for pretty much the same reasons as anyone has a patron.

I keep a shrine for him, upon which I maintain fresh offerings and where I regularly perform devotions (the most regular of which include reading hymns - modern and ancient - thanksgivings and occasionally asking for boons). I celebrate as many of his ancient festivals as I can and celebrate some festivals that I've taken from other devotees or that I've created. I'm usually working on at least one project for him, such as making a thyrsus, making masks and outdoor shrines, etc.
The devotions I do change depending on what I feel like doing - sometimes I dance, sometimes I chant, meditate, have sex or get drunk (although that's rare because I just so happen to be a maenad that doesn't like the taste of wine), among a variety of other things.

I should also add that my worship was influenced by Sannion (http://www.thehouseofvines.com/bio.htm) and Kate Winter (http://www.girls-underground.com/yourhost.htm) (both of these individuals have multiple websites; I just chose one to link to where you can find more on them); I encountered their work when I first began a relationship with Dionysos and I felt that the way I saw the god was similar to how they portrayed their experience with him. From what I've found, there are vastly different perceptions of the way Hellenic Paganism (recon, eclectic, and everything in between) should be practiced, and their ideals are the closest match to my own. Hellenic Recons, at least the ones I've met, and I don't have much... whatsoever... in common.

B. de Corbin
11 Oct 2010, 03:30
Somewhere in the reading I've done in the past I ran into the idea that the Greeks used Dionysian revels to act as a sort of counterbalance to their rational/logical ideal state (maybe it was in Sailing the Wine Dark Sea: Why the greeks Matter, by Thomas Cahill).

So I'm wondering - do you find that you do anything (or need to do anything) to balance out the wild Dionysian with a bit of the more orderly Apollonian?

Raphaeline
11 Oct 2010, 04:44
Somewhere in the reading I've done in the past I ran into the idea that the Greeks used Dionysian revels to act as a sort of counterbalance to their rational/logical ideal state (maybe it was in Sailing the Wine Dark Sea: Why the greeks Matter, by Thomas Cahill).

So I'm wondering - do you find that you do anything (or need to do anything) to balance out the wild Dionysian with a bit of the more orderly Apollonian?


Part of the point of being Dionysos' devotee is the dedication to his ideals. Obviously, though, I'm not raving naked in the woods tearing apart wildlife and getting wasted and all those other things for which the ancient maenads are famous (well, ok, infamous).

In the past, it was something I struggled with. How could it be that anyone could be fully devoted to him? Wouldn't it be incredibly self-destructive? But what I eventually came to understand is that Dionysos has more than one name because there's more to him than wine and madness. He is also Meilikhios, the Gentle, and Mantis, the Diviner, among dozens of others (http://www.neosalexandria.org/dionysos.htm). He has a personality and he's shown me through my experiences that he cares for me - so it's a bit more than just being devoted to the most extreme things in life.

B. de Corbin
12 Oct 2010, 04:38
Part of the point of being Dionysus' devotee is the dedication to his ideals. Obviously, though, I'm not raving naked in the woods tearing apart wildlife and getting wasted and all those other things for which the ancient maenads are famous (well, ok, infamous)....

Which is good, otherwise your answers would be pretty incoherent ;D

If I'm understanding this right, Dionysus seems to be like the deity of the border area between dark and light (by "dark and light" I don't mean good & evil - I mean more like between consciousness and unconsciousness, or between thought and feeling), where things can move easily from one side to the other. Does that make sense? Am I getting the idea?

LuciaStar
12 Oct 2010, 07:06
This does not have much to do with worship but I am quite curious about this, and I'm sorry if it's too personal or irrelevant, but: How did you know it was Dionysus? What was the main thing that made everything click or is that something that cannot really be answered?

Raphaeline
12 Oct 2010, 09:05
If I'm understanding this right, Dionysus seems to be like the deity of the border area between dark and light (by "dark and light" I don't mean good & evil - I mean more like between consciousness and unconsciousness, or between thought and feeling), where things can move easily from one side to the other. Does that make sense? Am I getting the idea?


This one's a little tricky.

Dionysos, more than any other deity I've known, can morph from one god to another in magnificent ways. This is a god who will make you dance in the fire after lying you down in a field of lilies - so yes, his nature is both dark and light. However, in my experience, Dionysos does nothing by halves. He isn't gray. He can be mysterious, but it doesn't mean it's because he's straddling the line of all or nothing.

If you're referring to something more like crossing from one side to the other, but not actually having a domain on that line itself, then yes, I'd say so. Dionysos very much represents crossing from one side to the other, traveling to one place from another place, passing through a doorway. He was born twice (some say three times), he traveled the world in a haze when Hera caused him to go mad, he descended into the underworld to rescue his mother and is considered an Olympian by some. Traversing from realm to realm, land to land, is something he's familiar with. He also moves from state to state through his many epithets - drunk and sober, dancing and lounging, divining and playing.

Hopefully I answered your question sufficiently - not sure if I responded to exactly what you were asking! Am I kind of picking up Nietzschean feel to the questions?




This does not have much to do with worship but I am quite curious about this, and I'm sorry if it's too personal or irrelevant, but: How did you know it was Dionysus? What was the main thing that made everything click or is that something that cannot really be answered?


In the past, before I found him, I had other patrons that, although I called them patron, weren't actually deities I was close to. The way I found them was to try and describe what "god" and/or "goddess" meant to me (I was Wiccan at the time; this was years ago) and look for the god and goddess that matched that idea. It never worked out for me because I was using an infinitely broad concept of who these unknown people were, and using a limited selection to try and find them.

Basically, to make a dating metaphor, I was dreaming up the perfect man, and then going to the clubs and becoming disappointed when I didn't find him.

Instead, I looked at my options - I spent a while learning about different pantheons and deities from all over the world and tried to get to know them through their myths. Interestingly, Greek mythology was the only pantheon I decided I wasn't interested in at the beginning (probably because it seemed, in my childhood, that Greek mythology was the "popular" Pagan religion - we were always studying it in school and it was everyone's favorite). I just so happened to be watching a movie that mentioned his name, and that's what reminded me of him. I started reading about him. I found other people who worshiped him. I don't remember ever having a moment when I "introduced" myself because I'd always had some version of him present in my life - Horned God, Cernunnos, or someone similar to who I saw when I first found him.

What set Dionysos apart from that is that he didn't seem to represent the preoccupation of being civilized. My kind of Paganism has to be primal, tribal, primitive for me to be happy. I need to feel free to dance naked around a bonfire, to feel that connection to the animal instinct in humanity, and Dionysos gave that to me - but he also gave me a link to other desires; motherly feelings, bisexuality, indulgence, luxury, excessiveness.

All of that had a hand in my decision to devote myself to him, but a lot of it just came naturally. When I thought Isis was part of my path, I tried very hard to connect to her. I struggled to see her in meditation, but even when I could make her out, I never could get her to speak to me. I fought to connect to her somehow, but I finally had to realize there just was nothing between us. When I honor Ganesha, my secondary patron, there's a moment after a few mantra repetitions that I feel his presence at his shrine. But I feel Dionysos all the time. He never goes away.

B. de Corbin
12 Oct 2010, 10:03
Am I kind of picking up Nietzschean feel to the questions?


Yup -ish. I was pretty sure I understood what Nietzsche was describing in The Birth of Greek Tragedy (Apollonian vs. Dionysian approach), but the actual mythical Dionysus was a blank spot for me (I wasn't getting the idea from the little I knew about Dionysus), so I wasn't getting the full idea - you've helped me out a great deal. Thanks!

Raphaeline
12 Oct 2010, 11:29
Yup -ish. I was pretty sure I understood what Nietzsche was describing in The Birth of Greek Tragedy (Apollonian vs. Dionysian approach), but the actual mythical Dionysus was a blank spot for me (I wasn't getting the idea from the little I knew about Dionysus), so I wasn't getting the full idea - you've helped me out a great deal. Thanks!


I'm ashamed to say I don't know enough about him, although I know a little about his thoughts on Dionysos. It's a process ;)

LuciaStar
12 Oct 2010, 13:24
I don't remember ever having a moment when I "introduced" myself because I'd always had some version of him present in my life - Horned God, Cernunnos, or someone similar to who I saw when I first found him.
This part peaks my interest a bit... how were they a version of him? Was it just the way they were perceived?
...Sorry for the questions. D;

(I read your previous thread on the old forums, and I'm kind of glad to be about to ask some things on here now~ A lot of things you said back then caught my interest, and made me want to research Dionysus... and research I did, and found myself falling in love with a deity I once perceived as simply a god of wine. I find he's a quite interesting deity and the more I do read about him, the more I find him attractive.)

Raphaeline
12 Oct 2010, 13:36
This part peaks my interest a bit... how were they a version of him? Was it just the way they were perceived?
Oh, I mean just how I perceived them. I saw them as wild men, very tied into the animal side of humans. Others might not say that they have a lot in common, but when I first began to learn about Dionysos, he reminded me of them in a way.



...Sorry for the questions. D;

No apologies necessary, I'm enjoying them!



(I read your previous thread on the old forums, and I'm kind of glad to be about to ask some things on here now~ A lot of things you said back then caught my interest, and made me want to research Dionysus... and research I did, and found myself falling in love with a deity I once perceived as simply a god of wine. I find he's a quite interesting deity and the more I do read about him, the more I find him attractive.)

I'd glad that it sparked your interest! If there's anything at all you want to ask, go right ahead; the questions are helpful to me, they give me new things to think about and a way to keep my brain from atrophying, lol...

LuciaStar
12 Oct 2010, 14:24
Oh, I mean just how I perceived them. I saw them as wild men, very tied into the animal side of humans. Others might not say that they have a lot in common, but when I first began to learn about Dionysos, he reminded me of them in a way.
That makes a lot of sense when I think about it. ;) Way back when, I tied the Horned God with sexuality and and saw him as a wild man.


No apologies necessary, I'm enjoying them!
I'd glad that it sparked your interest! If there's anything at all you want to ask, go right ahead; the questions are helpful to me, they give me new things to think about and a way to keep my brain from atrophying, lol...

Oh, okay. :D I'm glad you're enjoying them. I don't believe there's anything else I want to ask... yet but I'm pretty sure I'll come up with something. :P

Raphaeline
27 Oct 2010, 14:35
Just wanted to include a link here to my ongoing devotional project, the image blog Where Dionysos Dwells (http://wheredionysosdwells.tumblr.com).

Also, while I'm posting links...

Sannion's House of Vines (http://thehouseofvines.wordpress.com/) blog (you should definitely RSS this one)
Wildivine's section on Dionysos (http://www.wildivine.org/dionysos.htm)
Dionysos' Theoi (http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html)


I don't know if anyone remembers it from before the crash, but a member had posted a thread called something like "Walking with your God/Goddess". I'm still working on the project (which involves a comprehensive writing concerning a deity's correspondences, myths, symbols, pictures, songs, etc.) and I will be posting it here when I'm finished!

PainAndLight
30 Oct 2010, 18:22
Yup -ish. I was pretty sure I understood what Nietzsche was describing in The Birth of Greek Tragedy (Apollonian vs. Dionysian approach), but the actual mythical Dionysus was a blank spot for me (I wasn't getting the idea from the little I knew about Dionysus), so I wasn't getting the full idea - you've helped me out a great deal. Thanks!


So...I'm just going to jump in here and thorw a bit of my own two cents here.

Personally, I think that if you're using this for your basis of understanding of Apollo and Dionysus, from what I understand about this book, you're missing a lot with respect to both gods. Now, full disclusure, I haven't read The Birth of Greek Tragedy myself (plan to one of these days) but from what I can tell, it seems to paint the two as being very much a set of polar opposites, a very either/or dichotomy whereas, in reality, Apollo is not strictly rational and civilized, while Dionysus is not without his much more restrained sides. I've got some interesting ideas about the relationship between Apollo and Dionysus...heh.

Have you ever had a look at the book The Greeks and the Irrational by ER Dodds? If not, you'll probably find that one interesting.

B. de Corbin
30 Oct 2010, 19:32
Personally, I think that if you're using this for your basis of understanding of Apollo and Dionysus, from what I understand about this book, you're missing a lot with respect to both gods. ...

I don't want to take this thread off track, but since this was pointed at me, I'll give a quick response -

You are right. Nietzsche used Apollo and Dionysus as metaphors for certain ideas he wanted to put forth, which means that whatever understanding I took away from that of Apollo and Dionysus as deities was less than complete. That's why I wanted to ask Raphaeline about Dionysus as a God.



I haven't read The Birth of Greek Tragedy myself (plan to one of these days) but from what I can tell, it seems to paint the two as being very much a set of polar opposites, a very either/or dichotomy whereas, in reality, Apollo is not strictly rational and civilized, while Dionysus is not without his much more restrained sides. I've got some interesting ideas about the relationship between Apollo and Dionysus...heh

If youíre going by what I wrote, remember that Iím listening to what Raphaeline has to say, and trying not to put my own thoughts out, so I may have given you the wrong impression of what Nietzsche was doing (I was trying to keep it brief).

To be more correct (but maybe less clear), instead of writing Dionysian vs. Apollonian, I should have written that the Dionysian impulse occurs first, then an Apollonian interpretation or explanation is grafted on afterwards.

By all means, though, read Nietzsche. And Iíd be extraordinarily interested to hear your views on the relationship between the two. Also, thanks for the book recommendation - it sounds like it might be just the thing Iím currently looking for.

PainAndLight
30 Oct 2010, 20:00
If youíre going by what I wrote, remember that Iím listening to what Raphaeline has to say, and trying not to put my own thoughts out, so I may have given you the wrong impression of what Nietzsche was doing (I was trying to keep it brief).

Nah, it wasn't based on what you said, just a general comment based on what knowledge I have of the work in question. And I'm to trying to side track the thread, I promise! I'm just really bad at getting involved anytime I see Apollo mentioned, and the relationship between the two is of particular interest to me so....heh. I restrained myself- you didn't get a full essay on what I think :-P



By all means, though, read Nietzsche.

I do plan to one of these days.


And Iíd be extraordinarily interested to hear your views on the relationship between the two.

I had something mostly-written a while back. If I can find the notebook where I was writing it, I'll try to transcribe it at some point in the next week or so. If I can't, I might have to start back from scratch and might take a bit longer (It's something on which I can get a bit long-winded, but I've been meaning to write something for my blog for some time now.)



Also, thanks for the book recommendation - it sounds like it might be just the thing Iím currently looking for.


Ah, great. glad to be of assistance.

B. de Corbin
31 Oct 2010, 08:40
I'm just really bad at getting involved anytime I see Apollo mentioned, and the relationship between the two is of particular interest to me so....heh. I restrained myself- you didn't get a full essay on what I think :-P

LOL - actually, I like full essays ;D

Maybe you could start an Apollo thread? I'd be interested, and I'm sure others would be as well...

-Emotions-
31 Oct 2010, 13:14
Today I ordered two books concerning Dionysos. Dionysos by Carl Kerenyi and Dionysos And Immortality: The Greek Faith In Immortality As Affected By The Rise Of Individualism by Benjamin Ide Wheeler.
I'm very interested in both Dionysos and immortality. Will come back in this topic, also when I finished reading.

Raphaeline
31 Oct 2010, 13:54
Today I ordered two books concerning Dionysos. Dionysos by Carl Kerenyi and Dionysos And Immortality: The Greek Faith In Immortality As Affected By The Rise Of Individualism by Benjamin Ide Wheeler.
I'm very interested in both Dionysos and immortality. Will come back in this topic, also when I finished reading.


Walter F. Otto wrote a great one, too! If you get the chance, check out his book on Dionysos, which is often cited amongst devotees of the god.

-Emotions-
01 Nov 2010, 12:08
Walter F. Otto wrote a great one, too! If you get the chance, check out his book on Dionysos, which is often cited amongst devotees of the god.


Will keep in mind, thank you!

I was looking online, for a Dionysos cult in my country, I can't find it though. It would've been a good guidance since most religious cults put some useful info online. I'm always looking into cults/groups that practice religion, to learn the practice along with the theoretic side of worship. I did that with all my interests, never joined one though.

-Emotions-
01 Nov 2010, 12:17
P.s. Would the hermetic order of the golden dawn be a good substitute for a Dionysos cult? Since hermetic belief system incorporate all kinds of gods if i'm correct.

Raphaeline
01 Nov 2010, 17:45
P.s. Would the hermetic order of the golden dawn be a good substitute for a Dionysos cult? Since hermetic belief system incorporate all kinds of gods if i'm correct.


I don't really think I can answer that. A group that shares the focus on one god AND worships that god in the same way is going to be extremely hard to find these days; but whether another group would be a "good substitute" or not depends on how you feel their goal and shared beliefs mesh with your own.

What I can say is that I think you should focus on finding a group that is conducive to your spiritual needs. Personally, I worship alone although I sometimes share my worship with a coven (loosely defined and not necessarily very similar in our belief systems) or with my family.

B. de Corbin
04 Feb 2011, 07:55
I've been looking at some Greek coins (Thracian) from the first or second century BC, and I'm finding that Dionysos often comes up paired with Heracles.

Generally, there will be the head of Dionysos on one side, and a nude full figure of Dionysos on the other - or a grape bunch, or a grape arbor - which makes sense, but sometimes it's Heracles (you can tell by what the figure is holding - grapes fo Dionysos, a lion skin for Heracles).

Aside from having the same pappy, is there any particular reason (that you know of) for these two to be paired up? Maybe it's just a stylistic thing, but it got me wondering...

Raphaeline
15 Feb 2011, 18:47
I just realized I haven't answered your question, Corbin, even though I've read it several times. I've been doing some reading about it, because I don't know a lot about Heracles, but I promise to come back and answer it when I learn enough to actually say something worthwhile ;)

Raphaeline
19 Feb 2011, 18:01
Just wanted to pop in quickly and share this beautiful telling of The Bacchae (http://www.bradmays.com/bacchae_theatre_photos.html) from Brad Mays!

It's really good.

ETA: Oh, and NSFW.

Raphaeline
02 Apr 2011, 22:02
Today, I celebrated the Festival of Dionysos Triumphant! It's a new festival, with no ancient roots, that ... well, here's Sannion's words (I've typed the same thing three times already in a journal, an email and a facebook group so I'm taking shortcuts!):

Festival to honor Dionysos’ victory in the Indian Conquest and his establishment of peace, prosperity and culture in the lands he passed through during his wandering. Make an effigy of The Enemy (symbolizing Deriades, Lykourgos, Pentheus and all the rest who opposed him, as well as the obstacles in our own path which Dionysos helps remove) and then ritually destroy it. After the destruction, a joyful celebration full of feasting, singing, dancing and intoxication. The feast is Indian food. Decoration should include vegetation, phalloi, bulls, elephants, peacocks, etc. A procession at night to spread his blessings throughout the city.

Now, I should have taken pictures of our dinner at the Indian restaurant - a local group that I've recently met and become friends with accompanied me and I had a very nice time! I had Indian food for the FIRST TIME in my life and ... how has it taken so long?!

But before that, I burned the effigy.

My family helped me build it, but because the little man was so fussy and ready for a nap, I was alone when I destroyed it. It was a very... cathartic ritual, really emotional, and pretty darn powerful. I pretty much took out some rage on it - I strung it up, tore it apart, burned it and threw it in a creek. While I was standing there, reflecting on the ritual, a weasel came bounding down the bank of the stream. I was only able to get a quick shot of it (http://wheredionysosdwells.tumblr.com/post/4288200591/this-little-fellow-came-bounding-down-the-bank-of) and a video a few seconds long, operating my phone like a madwoman because I really wanted a good image of him. I'd never seen a weasel before in my life and I wasn't entirely certain that it was what I was looking at, so I wanted something to compare it with when I got to Google images.

That's also when I learned that, in ancient Greek mythology, the weasel is a symbol of achieved justice.

Raphaeline
02 Aug 2011, 09:36
I hosted my first bacchanal on July 30!

I was really nervous that it wouldn't go well, but I was very, very pleasantly surprised! I provided decorations, ivy crowns and the shrine as well as cakes and grapes and a bottle of merlot - my five guests, who I was afraid wouldn't be very interested or invested in the evening, brought a total of six more bottles of wine, creme horns, fresh bread, strawberries and blackberries, a Greek salad and lots of chocolate, not to mention the gifts that most of them brought for ME (including chocolate milk since I couldn't partake of the chocolate wine, perfume, incense and flowers). We danced and meditated and drank and laughed and celebrated Dionysos in the way he deserved - loudly and well into the night! Three went home and the other two stayed the night.

When I woke up the next morning (unintentionally late since my little toddler wasn't home to wake me up at the crack of dawn), they had left me breakfast, cleaned the house and wrote a letter of thanks.

It was a really awesome experience!

I'd love to post pictures of the celebrants but I would hate to do so without their permission, so instead I'll post pictures of the shrine.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp7nd1KnaM1qc01ibo1_500.jpg

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp7namW8zf1qc01ibo1_500.jpg

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp7n643bK61qc01ibo3_500.jpg

Dez
02 Aug 2011, 10:30
Awe, Rafe, that's awesome!

Beautiful pictures, too. I have some from yesterday that I want to post, but they turned out pretty dark and sad.

Raphaeline
02 Aug 2011, 10:35
Thank you!

What did you take pictures of? I'm sorry, I'm sure it's something I should know about, I've been missing my computer a lot lately and I'm not caught up with everyone!

Dez
02 Aug 2011, 11:08
First try at baking for Lammas...I just posted them in my gallery!

B. de Corbin
02 Aug 2011, 15:32
That all sounds fantastic, Raphaeline! Your shrine is lovely.

P.S. - I love Indian food - can't get it here, though..., or decent Thai food either... One of the few bad things about living in the wilds.

Raphaeline
02 Aug 2011, 21:20
First try at baking for Lammas...I just posted them in my gallery!

I'll check it out when I get up in the morning! Be assured you are FAR from the worst - I've seen your magic in the kitchen and you're doubtless better at it than I am, and I can say that without having yet seen your work for Lammas ;)


That all sounds fantastic, Raphaeline! Your shrine is lovely.


Thank you very much, Corbin! And of course I was proudly wearing my thyrsus necklace that night :)

Raphaeline
03 Apr 2012, 20:58
Just gonna leave this here. It's the first poem I've been compelled to write in a very long time.

Maenad's Daughter (http://raphaeline.tumblr.com/post/20453249391/maenadsdaughter)

Yazichestvo
04 Apr 2012, 03:07
Nice, it has a very ecstatic feel to it. Dionysus is one of the few Greek Gods who I actually took great interest in. Partially, this is due to my reading of Euripides Bacchae, but also because of my research on the Greek mystery religions. Part of what I like about Dionysus is his mysteriousness. Many of the phrases, epithets, and terms used in Dionysian texts seem so nonsensical and secret, as though they're being spoken in a language that only the initiated understand. For instance, he is called both Taurokephalos (bull-headed) and Taurophagos (bull-eater), which I found a little bit strange.

http://www.theoi.com/Cult/DionysosTitles.html

Corvus
08 Apr 2012, 16:39
I have to say I really like Dionysus. I'm afraid to attempt any kind of direct contact because he feels so.. wild. I really think I would go insane (or more so). Ironically I was planning to go to the school play and was killing time looking through threads when I first found this one. But anyway some questions came to mind after attempting to sort through all the info you provided..
There is some references to male worshipers of Dionysus but is there really a male equivalent to the maenad? (since satyrs are mythical, ... right?)
Why were all these people not willing to accept Dionysus as a god in the myths until he like destroys them?
I dont understand the how he becomes an androgenic figure and/or why
Is there anything Dionysus would disapprove of really? It seems like if you're happy and being yourself he's happy with you.
Ariadne is his only lover?
I'm would feel really stupid if you've explained any of these already and I've simply missed it. Please and thankyou for any answers and information.

Lokabrenna
15 Apr 2012, 19:11
Hi,

I'm just dropping in to say that although I love my (Norse) gods more than any other gods in the world, I am such a Dionysus fangirl, reading about him and his cult helped me get over my misandry when I was moving away from Dianic witchcraft, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I spent time drooling over his bust at the Royal Ontario Museum. I'm a lesbian, but I think I could manage to be bi for Dionysus, maybe....

Raphaeline
16 Apr 2012, 04:44
There is some references to male worshipers of Dionysus but is there really a male equivalent to the maenad? (since satyrs are mythical, ... right?)
The way I would put it is that everyone can worship Dionysos, but women are capable of an entirely different sort of relationship with him. Not all women who worship Dionysos are maenads, for that matter. I suppose a way to describe it would be to say that nuns must be women, but not all Catholic women are nuns. It's a different level of worship altogether, in terms of modern worship.



Why were all these people not willing to accept Dionysus as a god in the myths until he like destroys them?
They didn't like the idea of half-naked people roaming drunk all over the countryside, I'm sure. But Dionysos punishes - for the most part - those who do not allow his followers to worship him. It's when his devotees are prohibited to give him his due worship that he becomes angry. Remember Prohibition in America and what happened when the government attempted to separate man from his drink? It's another way to look at the same issue - the spirit of Dionysos perseveres within humanity and no leader can stop the people from following it :)



I dont understand the how he becomes an androgenic figure and/or why
Dionysos is a god of "in between"s and the transition from one state to another - sober and drunk, man and woman, wild and calm, comforting and frightening, light and dark and so on. He is one, the other, both, neither. Dionysos is paradoxical - he's very much the virile male, but he's also known to dress as a woman and take on female characteristics. It's in his nature to be both one way and the other at the same time.



Is there anything Dionysus would disapprove of really? It seems like if you're happy and being yourself he's happy with you.
Things that would displease Dionysos in general would be to resist change, resist your nature, to be still and stagnant. So I'd definitely say you're right - I think that's a good way to sum it up :)



Ariadne is his only lover?
Ariadne is his true love, but he's had children by others. I don't normally view Dionysos in the family context, so this one isn't a question I can answer well, but this is one suggestion of who his children (and their mothers) are:
With Ariadne: Oenopion, Staphylos, Thoas, Peparethus, Phanus, Eurymedon, Euanthes, Latramys, Tauropolis, Ceramus, Maron
With Aphrodite: Iacchus, Priapus, Hymen, The Graces (Pasithea, Euphrosyne, Thalia)
With Nyx: Phthonus
With Althaea: Deianira
With Circe: Comus
It's been on my to do list to read more on Ariadne and Dionysos' children. It's just never been something that has been an integral part of our relationship, maybe because I've been uncomfortable as seeing him attached to another woman in such a devoted way. I suppose I'm jealous. But it's something I've been meaning to read more about, so I'll come back to it.



Hi,

I'm just dropping in to say that although I love my (Norse) gods more than any other gods in the world, I am such a Dionysus fangirl, reading about him and his cult helped me get over my misandry when I was moving away from Dianic witchcraft, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I spent time drooling over his bust at the Royal Ontario Museum. I'm a lesbian, but I think I could manage to be bi for Dionysus, maybe....

I use the term "fangirl" to describe myself, too - I get on my friends' nerves because I can pretty much gush about him all the time. But they can't complain because they keep coming to my bacchanalia :)

Corvus
16 Apr 2012, 12:57
Thank you Raph ^^ that really helps me understand. (I may be back o-o)

Yazichestvo
10 May 2012, 21:11
Well, he is supposed to be man-womanish, isn't he?

Raphaeline
10 Jun 2012, 19:07
Well, he is supposed to be man-womanish, isn't he?

That's my favorite epithet :)

Well, one of my favorites.

volcaniclastic
10 Jan 2013, 17:25
Resurrecting a bit.

How has your relationship with Dionysus changed since you've had children?