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Amethist
28 Oct 2014, 17:28
Hello everybody! I posted a small post about myself in the intro forum but I would like to share my experience with you and maybe find friend with whom walk in the path of the Aesir.
I was born into a Catholic family and raised as a Catholic but I have been always very disapproving towards the Catholicism and I started developing my own vision about religion and spirituality quite early.
I started having my first paranormal experiences when I was 13 following the death of a dear one (as if that specific happening had unlocked a door). By the age of 18 I was already reading Tarots and few years after I also started drawing astrological charts. Still a few years and I felt irresistibly drawn to the Runes. I already had a strong connection to Scandinavia which I visited at age 16 finding out that Scandinavian languages were oddly familiar.
I felt a resurgence of Christian faith but it lasted really short because deep inside myself I was aware that that wasn't my real path. Anyway, I also felt a very strong interest in Lucifer to whom I owe my present situation. He helped me shred all the Christian constrictions and see beyond the Christian narrow boundaries.
Although I hold Lucifer in high respect, I knew that He wasn't my destination, my path so, after a lot of years, I finally got the call from the Aesir. It's pretty hard to describe how it happened, it's been something coming out from my heart, a voice calling from deep in my soul.
Loki has been the first to call, he demanded a special gift that will be completed over the time: a book including Runes, prayers and magic entirely made by hand, rich in illumination and drawings. It will take me a long time to finish but it doesn't matter as long as it pleases the Aesir.
Thor and Njord came afterwards and together with Loki, they now form the Triad I worship on my small, simple altar.
Loki, Thor and Njord also demanded that most of the items on my altars be made by myself (where possible) so I made a tile where to put the offers, an incense holder, a candle holder and I am going to embroider a special altar cloth.
For very long time I tried to find reliable sources about Norse Spirituality, Gods and Religion but I was never lucky because serious stuff seems to be very well hidden on the Net.
After setting up my altar and beginning my worship routine, I bumped into a trove of ebooks.

The last of the signs I've got is a Rune...
Long time ago I modeled a set of Rune charms out of clay, then I stored them in a box. Few days ago, while rummaging in my shoulder bag, I found one of those Runes and I have no idea of how it landed there as all the Runes are securely stored in that box.
The rune is Sowilo, any of you know how to related it to my newly found path?

So this is a short version of my long path to the Aesir. Now I am here, I hope my walk along this path won't be on my own. I hope to find other fellow worshippers to exchange information and experiences!

Munin-Hugin
29 Oct 2014, 17:30
Well, Sowilo is a good sign that you are on the right path. It is the rune of success, hope, and guidance. So go with it, keep doing what you're doing!

GaryG
30 Oct 2014, 05:51
Loki has been the first to call, he demanded a special gift...

Loki, Thor and Njord also demanded...





I am sorry but that is not how the gifting cycle operates

Sean R. R.
30 Oct 2014, 10:03
I am sorry but that is not how the gifting cycle operates

What do you mean by this? If he was directly directed to do this by Loki...

thalassa
30 Oct 2014, 10:25
What do you mean by this? If he was directly directed to do this by Loki...

I can't speak to as what he means specifically, but I can relate two observations of mine: There seems to be a lot of contention among the various types of Heathen and Norse and/or Germanic Pagans (even beyond the recon or not divide, and even the polytheist or not divinde) over Loki (seriously, google "heathen loki debate" for hours of amusement). Also, there's just as much debate over stuff like how to worship the gods, whether or not the gods enter into reciprocal relationships with their followers, or which gods to worship, etc within specific communities (Including the communities that worship the Norse gods) as there is in Paganism as a whole.

GaryG.
30 Oct 2014, 10:43
What do you mean by this? If he was directly directed to do this by Loki...


What "I mean" is simple, heathenry is a do ut des relationship (I give that you may give), WE go to the gods, we ask for things, we sacrifice, we hopefully get. The "so and so told me..." no, just no. I do not care who it is you were not "told by so and so" to "give them anything", that is not how it works, especially in heathenry not to mention we have enough evidence indicating the gods...if and when they did speak to people...were people of great renown or Kings, they did not speak to Joe Everyday.

- - - Updated - - -


Also, there's just as much debate over stuff like how to worship the gods, whether or not the gods enter into reciprocal relationships with their followers, or which gods to worship, etc within specific communities (Including the communities that worship the Norse gods) as there is in Paganism as a whole.

There is plenty of evidence both literary and archeological as to what was done, all one has to do is read it, it seems the "debate" is by those who want to instead do whatever feels right as opposed to actually doing something that was actually once performed or worse still actually having to do the research to find it.

Sean R. R.
30 Oct 2014, 11:14
Times change, traditions do too. Gods maybe change as well. Maybe sometimes people feel a tradition needs to change. Maybe Gods want tradition to evolve and change as well.

Maybe he's not a Joe Everyday. Maybe Gods now speak to everyday people.

thalassa
30 Oct 2014, 11:20
First of all, welcome to PF--we encourage new members to post an introduction (http://www.paganforum.com/forumdisplay.php?12-Introductions)!



With that being said...




There is plenty of evidence both literary and archeological as to what was done, all one has to do is read it, it seems the "debate" is by those who want to instead do whatever feels right as opposed to actually doing something that was actually once performed or worse still actually having to do the research to find it.

Not everyone puts the same wieght on literary or archeological evidence in what is or is not meaningful in their religious beliefs and practices. The debate is based on the assumption that just because someone chooses to use UPG, that they've not done any research. While often the case, its just as often NOT the case. Making that assumption around here too often will get you (figuratively) jumped--a good number of our established members that follow a syncretic, ecclectic, or modern constructued path have done a great deal of research (some of them, have at one point in time, even been recons of various flavors) and either incorporated it or (for various and sundry reasons) rejected it as not consequential for their own practices.

Over the years, we've gone round and round and round on this forum on the "what is a Heathen" question, and we are so over it (same with the Which Witch is Which, the Druidry vs Druidism, and the Great Wiccan Debate, just to name a few)...so, regardless of what your personal opinion might be, at least on this forum, not every Heathen is a reconstructionist--or for that matter, gives historical context the same weight when it comes to modern worship. If you look at the description for this section, it states "Discussion of Norse and Germanic religions, deities, history and mythology, as well as (but not limited to) recon." To assume that every person that posts here is a reconstructionist isn't very productive. Additionally, the OP, in their initial introduction post, says that they are new to this...so so say "sorry you are doing it wrong" without an explaination of *why* or even a "from my perspective, as a recon (or whatever), I think that your experience isn't in keeping with lore..." is less than helpful.

GaryG.
30 Oct 2014, 11:31
First of all, welcome to PF--we encourage new members to post an introduction!

not new, I am the same person already responding in this thread, it logged me out and would not allow me back in saying the password was wrong and my email not recognized so I just made a new account.




Not everyone puts the same wieght on literary or archeological evidence in what is or is not meaningful in their religious beliefs and practices.

obviously





The debate is based on the assumption that just because someone chooses to use UPG, that they've not done any research. While often the case, its just as often NOT the case. Making that assumption around here too often will get you (figuratively) jumped--a good number of our established members that follow a syncretic, ecclectic, or modern constructued path have done a great deal of research (some of them, have at one point in time, even been recons of various flavors) and either incorporated it or (for various and sundry reasons) rejected it as not consequential for their own practices.

Over the years, we've gone round and round and round on this forum on the "what is a Heathen" question, and we are so over it (same with the Which Witch is Which, the Druidry vs Druidism, and the Great Wiccan Debate, just to name a few)...so, regardless of what your personal opinion might be, at least on this forum, not every Heathen is a reconstructionist--or for that matter, gives historical context the same weight when it comes to modern worship. If you look at the description for this section, it states "Discussion of Norse and Germanic religions, deities, history and mythology, as well as (but not limited to) recon." To assume that every person that posts here is a reconstructionist isn't very productive. Additionally, the OP, in their initial introduction post, says that they are new to this...so so say "sorry you are doing it wrong" without an explaination of *why* or even a "from my perspective, as a recon (or whatever), I think that your experience isn't in keeping with lore..." is less than helpful.


seems people are more concerned with validation than education.


Additionally, the OP, in their initial introduction post, says that they are new to this.

I am aware of that, I am also aware they said...


For very long time I tried to find reliable sources about Norse Spirituality, Gods and Religion but I was never lucky because serious stuff seems to be very well hidden on the Net.

The internet is how old now? There is no reason anywhere that this information cannot be found unless you are seeking information only accessible through things like JSTOR, a simple 15 minute search will yield enough material to keep you reading for months.

Sean R. R.
30 Oct 2014, 11:34
seems people are more concerned with validation than education.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but you seemed to put education as a way of validation.

Personal experience can be educative too! :P

Munin-Hugin
30 Oct 2014, 13:26
seems people are more concerned with validation than education.

Interestingly, one of the most commonly accepted roles of Loki is that as the "trickster", putting him into the same category of gods as Anansi, Coyote, Raven, Gwydion, and so on and so forth. Each of these deities have been shown to work both for and against his/her fellow gods, as well as his/her worshipers and charges, all with one extremely important purpose.

By going against the status quo, inching (and sometimes leaping) over the fine line, and throwing things into a bit of chaos, those tricksters bring with them a state of creativity, self discovery, and innovation. This leads to learning through experience and to the ability to see outside of the box. Experience is very often the best education that one can receive.

As for validation, that is something that we all seek, whether we realize it or not. It can come to us in the form of getting that job, or being given that diploma, or getting your kicks by telling someone else that they're wrong ... or looking into the meaning of that rune that they happened to find.



He alone is aware who has wandered wide,
And far abroad has fared,
How great a mind is guided by him
That wealth of wisdom has.



Stick with it, Amethist! Go with what you feel and what you know, and good luck. :)

GaryG.
30 Oct 2014, 15:04
Interestingly, one of the most commonly accepted roles of Loki is that as the "trickster", putting him into the same category of gods as Anansi, Coyote, Raven, Gwydion, and so on and so forth. Each of these deities have been shown to work both for and against his/her fellow gods, as well as his/her worshipers and charges, all with one extremely important purpose.

By going against the status quo, inching (and sometimes leaping) over the fine line, and throwing things into a bit of chaos, those tricksters bring with them a state of creativity, self discovery, and innovation. This leads to learning through experience and to the ability to see outside of the box. Experience is very often the best education that one can receive.

As for validation, that is something that we all seek, whether we realize it or not. It can come to us in the form of getting that job, or being given that diploma, or getting your kicks by telling someone else that they're wrong ... or looking into the meaning of that rune that they happened to find.



He alone is aware who has wandered wide,
And far abroad has fared,
How great a mind is guided by him
That wealth of wisdom has.



Stick with it, Amethist! Go with what you feel and what you know, and good luck. :)


Only thing worse than cultural appropriation is cultural ignorance, and you are taking the literary evidence as for what is tells instead of what it taught, not uncommon.

And can we please stop with the "Loki is a trickster deity" already, if anyone was the trickster it would have been Odin.

MaskedOne
30 Oct 2014, 17:21
not new, I am the same person already responding in this thread, it logged me out and would not allow me back in saying the password was wrong and my email not recognized so I just made a new account.


It didn't recognize your email because it isn't the same. Close but different. The traditional and preferred answer to this is to send an e-mail to site support. However, I'm gonna leave this part for admins unless given reason not to.




The internet is how old now? There is no reason anywhere that this information cannot be found unless you are seeking information only accessible through things like JSTOR, a simple 15 minute search will yield enough material to keep you reading for months.

A significant portion of the population doesn't really know how to do research. Without a decent grounding in research or a secure base knowledge to work from, the existence of the internet is not a spectacularly reliable guide. If you try not to judge people based on what you think they should know then I'll try not to judge you based on what I think you should know. I am perfectly okay with passing judgement based on what I think you should know if this does not appear to be a fair deal.

Other than that, I'll leave this to those with a better grounding in Heathenry.

GaryG.
30 Oct 2014, 18:04
It didn't recognize your email because it isn't the same. Close but different. The traditional and preferred answer to this is to send an e-mail to site support. However, I'm gonna leave this part for admins unless given reason not to.

good for you.




A significant portion of the population doesn't really know how to do research. Without a decent grounding in research or a secure base knowledge to work from, the existence of the internet is not a spectacularly reliable guide. If you try not to judge people based on what you think they should know then I'll try not to judge you based on what I think you should know. I am perfectly okay with passing judgement based on what I think you should know if this does not appear to be a fair deal.

Other than that, I'll leave this to those with a better grounding in Heathenry.


There is enough information out there that ignorance is no excuse, and I guess it's a good thing then that I couldn't care less what you think I should know, and you're right, you should leave this to those better grounded in heathenry.

volcaniclastic
30 Oct 2014, 18:09
good for you.






There is enough information out there that ignorance is no excuse, and I guess it's a good thing then that I couldn't care less what you think I should know, and you're right, you should leave this to those better grounded in heathenry.

Just as an FYI, this is a poor way to introduce yourself to our forum. Please consider using more decorum with your next response.

MaskedOne
30 Oct 2014, 18:36
There is enough information out there that ignorance is no excuse, and I guess it's a good thing then that I couldn't care less what you think I should know, and you're right, you should leave this to those better grounded in heathenry.



Marvelous, I was hoping that you'd pick this option. I think you should know that rule 8 in this link

http://www.paganforum.com/showthread.php?934-Rules-and-Terms-of-Pagan-Forum

bans multiple accounts. I think you should know that the appropriate answer to losing your original account access is to contact site support via e-mail. I think you should know that closing secondary and therefore banned accounts is well within my authority and I think you should know that since you have just invited my full and unrestricted judgement for your lack of brains and good judgement, you can wait until you rediscover your original access codes or Juni re-opens your account. I invite you to play, "invite MaskedOne's full and unrestricted judgement" again whenever you get back.

anunitu
31 Oct 2014, 00:37
Bows down to the master of the masked spirit....

Rae'ya
31 Oct 2014, 03:03
I know he's been banned (which I'm not upset by, as this is not actually the first time he's caused this sort of drama here), but I'll just point out to everyone that GaryG is a perfect example of the hardcore fundamental recon that we NT'ers and non-recons are referring to when we talk about hardcore fundamental recons.

You don't even bother arguing with them... they don't listen to reason and just get aggressive when you start undermining their arguments. They are dead set on their interpretation of the Lore and the archaeological record and will not budge, even if you throw contradictory demonstratable hyptheses at them (because lets face it, archaeology and anthropology prove nothing, just provide us with educated guesswork). They are infuriatingly illogical and hypocritical. It's this sort of recon that gives recons a bad name. It's also this sort of recon that is the reason NT'ers and non-recon Heathens stay away from many Heathen communities.

If someone like this pops up again, don't bother. All it will do is bait them into getting banned. Which is usually a highly successful technique in non-Heathen forums... not that I'm... you know... advocating that... or anything... *looks innocent*

- - - Updated - - -

Which brings me to the original post...


Hello everybody! I posted a small post about myself in the intro forum but I would like to share my experience with you and maybe find friend with whom walk in the path of the Aesir.

Welcome! Unfortunately, you've just had your first run in with a hardcore fundamentalist recon Heathen... please don't take GaryG's behaviour personally or as any sort of 'norm'... you will see it semi-regularly on recon Heathen forums, but it is certainly NOT the only way to practice Heathenry. And it is NOT an accurate reflection of what was likely to have been practiced historically, despite what that sort will try to tell you.

Luckly, here at the PF Heathen board, we are not hardcore fundamentalist recons... we're a collection of much more open minded and diverse 'Heathens' and Northern Tradition folk who you should find welcoming and helpful. Often the non-Heathens pop in... we're a share-and-share-alike sort of community here and don't pay that much attention to categories and labels! Which is great, because it means you'll get a wide range of opinions from both inside and outside viewpoints.


Although I hold Lucifer in high respect, I knew that He wasn't my destination, my path so, after a lot of years, I finally got the call from the Aesir. It's pretty hard to describe how it happened, it's been something coming out from my heart, a voice calling from deep in my soul.
Loki has been the first to call, he demanded a special gift that will be completed over the time: a book including Runes, prayers and magic entirely made by hand, rich in illumination and drawings. It will take me a long time to finish but it doesn't matter as long as it pleases the Aesir.
Thor and Njord came afterwards and together with Loki, they now form the Triad I worship on my small, simple altar.
Loki, Thor and Njord also demanded that most of the items on my altars be made by myself (where possible) so I made a tile where to put the offers, an incense holder, a candle holder and I am going to embroider a special altar cloth.

Despite what some recons will have you believe, this is not an unusual experience... you are definitely not alone in this sort of introduction to the path. Loki in particular is a very controversial subject amongst Heathens, but His people are more than welcome here (and you will find a few other Loki's folk here at PF).


The last of the signs I've got is a Rune...
Long time ago I modeled a set of Rune charms out of clay, then I stored them in a box. Few days ago, while rummaging in my shoulder bag, I found one of those Runes and I have no idea of how it landed there as all the Runes are securely stored in that box.
The rune is Sowilo, any of you know how to related it to my newly found path?

Sowilo is usually a positive rune, and a sign that something is either going well, on the right track, or assured of success. Of course, it's much more complex than just that (the runespirits always are) but I feel that in this context it's likely a confirmation of the direction you are taking.

MaskedOne
31 Oct 2014, 04:13
I should point out thag GaryG may re-appear. All he has to do is follow the correct procedure to get Juni's help with his account. Permabanning both accounts is outside my legitimate authority. GaryG. (Note the distinguishing dot) is a secondary account and those I can ban on sight most of the time. Their existence is a rule violation. Normally they get closed after the first account is worked out but that is not actually promised and normally when I offer people the choice of

"Be benevolent and I will to you or be harsh and I'll be harsh to you."

They are not so collossally stupid as to pick option 2.

- - - Updated - - -

I should also point out in case he's lurking that the first secondary isn't being held against his original account. Now that I've pointedly stated the correct policy though both here and in a ban notification, building another secondary is highly inadvisable. I don't have the authority to permanently kill the primary account but violating the correct procedure to get his account fixed too many times may draw administrative wrath and they do possess that authority.

nbdy
31 Oct 2014, 04:15
You don't even bother arguing with them... they don't listen to reason and just get aggressive when you start undermining their arguments. They are dead set on their interpretation of the Lore and the archaeological record and will not budge, even if you throw contradictory demonstratable hyptheses at them (because lets face it, archaeology and anthropology prove nothing, just provide us with educated guesswork). They are infuriatingly illogical and hypocritical. It's this sort of recon that gives recons a bad name. It's also this sort of recon that is the reason NT'ers and non-recon Heathens stay away from many Heathen communities.



Heathens have a Tea Party faction. Who knew?

Amethist
01 Nov 2014, 14:10
Hi all! I didn't want to spark all this debate! The fact that I am quite new to Heathenry doesn't mean that I am new to spirituality and extrasensory contacts.
My goal now is to follow this path in the best way possible. I reckon that as for any other religion/spiritual path, there are always fundamentalists that don't care of what others think or do but I am not troubled.
I also know that Loki is a much controversial god and some paths don't even think he is a god.
I think that the relationship with the gods is very personal, some gods may appear beneficial to some people and less beneficial to others which is what leads to misjudging some deities like Loki.

Munin-Hugin
01 Nov 2014, 14:16
I also know that Loki is a much controversial god and some paths don't even think he is a god.
I think that the relationship with the gods is very personal, some gods may appear beneficial to some people and less beneficial to others which is what leads to misjudging some deities like Loki.

I stumbled upon this the other day, following your post, and thought you'd find it a quite enjoyable read, along with the rest of the things on the site.

http://readingheathenism.wordpress.com/2014/05/19/4-real-reasons-heathens-hate-lokeans-by-a-lokean/

Rae'ya
01 Nov 2014, 16:16
I stumbled upon this the other day, following your post, and thought you'd find it a quite enjoyable read, along with the rest of the things on the site.

http://readingheathenism.wordpress.com/2014/05/19/4-real-reasons-heathens-hate-lokeans-by-a-lokean/

I love the Reading Heathenism blog... some really interesting research and insights on there!

Amethist
02 Nov 2014, 09:04
I stumbled upon this the other day, following your post, and thought you'd find it a quite enjoyable read, along with the rest of the things on the site.


Thank you very much, Munin-Hugin. I read that post and i found it really interesting as many others in the same blog look like. I think I will spend some time reading them.
I don't feel comfortable with Asatru because I feel they stick too much on documentary evidences so it looks like they think "if it isn't written anywhere, then it can't be true". I think the essence of Gods cannot be contained in a few pages of a Saga and that the Gods may decide to approach people in different ways. There is chance that they now approach their followers in a different way than 1,000 years ago and I also think that this holds true especially for Loki who has been always quite unpredictable.
I simply skipped all the flame that ensued from my first post because I am not here to debate the only and true way to worship the Gods (I don't think there is one). I am here to find other fellow followers with whom exchange ideas and experiences and who can help me walk this path in the best way possible (this is why I thank you so warmly, Munin-Hugin for showing me that blog).
I know that many don't consider Loki even worth of worship and tend to despise His followers considering them as freaks. Still, I don't care at all if someone may make fun of me because He is so important to me. I feel wonderfully with Him by my side, this is important and I don't care what people may say. :)

Munin-Hugin
02 Nov 2014, 09:21
I know that many don't consider Loki even worth of worship and tend to despise His followers considering them as freaks. Still, I don't care at all if someone may make fun of me because He is so important to me. I feel wonderfully with Him by my side, this is important and I don't care what people may say. :)

Interestingly, while I've never had any issues with seeing Loki as a deity worthy of worship, outside of a single experience with him MANY years ago, up until recently it hadn't crossed my mind to look to him for guidance and the like. Now, after reading some of the entries on that blog, and the fact that my first impulse while starting my home project was to carve a stone for Loki, I am giving him a bit more of my attention.