'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

[Medusa]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

I don't remember accusing anyone of anything. It is telling about YOUR decision making process that you would judge the work based on a story full of innuendos and hearsay with very little facts to base an opinion of the artifact on rather than to wait and see what the evidence tells.

The author of the story brings to question the moral character of one person in a nearly empty line of provenance. Nothing is said about the work itself. I put more faith in the science of the paper and ink, it's dating, and the objective evidence than I can in a news story. (sorry, I have an innate distrust of reporters because they tend to write for sensationalism or to fit their personal views rather than objective truth).
For instance; it is always a racially motivated act when a white person offends or attacks a black person but it is never a racially motivated attack if a black man offends or attacks a white person.
It is big news when a gun is used in a crime but there is no news when a gun is used in self defense (unless the above applies).
It is never a radical (enter race, religion, or ethnicity here) who perpetrates a violent act unless the attacker is (white, upper middle class, male and Christian).
It is never a "black", Muslim, or Mexican man who commits a crime, its just a man unless he is white - then they provide a description which includes color, race and religion.
Why is it so hard to identify a criminal with his race or religion ALL the time?

Holy Jesus. What are you on about?

[B. de Corbin]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

I don't remember accusing anyone of anything. It is telling about YOUR decision making process that you would judge the work based on a story full of innuendos and hearsay with very little facts to base an opinion of the artifact on rather than to wait and see what the evidence tells.

The author of the story brings to question the moral character of one person in a nearly empty line of provenance. Nothing is said about the work itself. I put more faith in the science of the paper and ink, it's dating, and the objective evidence than I can in a news story. (sorry, I have an innate distrust of reporters because they tend to write for sensationalism or to fit their personal views rather than objective truth).

OK, so I'm a bigot.

Let's talk about the shady journalist, then, what he did write, and what might motivate him (as opposed to just imagining he's a liar).

1. He usn't a qualified expert in antiquities. He left that part to King, who is. He did report that the papyrus was carbon dated & authenticated... then indicated that papyrus of that time period can be bought from ebay (3 seconds of internet research yeilded this: http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/...t-papyrus.html)

2. He also indicated that the ink used was appropriate for the time period, in terms of composition, but did not indicte it had been carbon dated. I don't know, but I imagine the ink would have been something like charcoal and a binder, like gum arabic. Both are organic compounds and could be carbon dated - but propobly weren't because nobody wanted to scrape too much ink off a potentially horrendously valuable (economicly and historicly) manuscript.

I don't know about the sample size needed to date material as opposed to the sample size needed to detremine composition. Maybe Thalassa can shed some light on this?

3. He noted problems with the Coptic - it uses a fraction of the Gospel of Thomas, but it also includes a error that can be tracked back to a translation of the GoT that showed up on the internet at about the right time - this suggests that somebody with a knowledge of Coptic translated a mistranslation back into Coptic from that (or another) source. The odds that a modern mistranslation would be justified in an ancient manuscript are, uhm... quite low.

4. What would the author's motive be for telling fibs? Considering the vested interest people have in a document like this, the author's tale will be checked. If that story isn't verified, the author - an investagatve journalist - will be out of a carreer.

5. On the other hand, he could have written just as good a tale by telling the truth, without risking his reputation and future. A story validating the provenance would have been equally as marketable - possibly moreso, since it would be included in the acedemic literature on the subject, increasing his prestige.

Viewed without prejudice, I'm inclined to accept the author's story unless and until new evidence arises.

[thalassa]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

Anyone seeking to perpetuate such a stunt would know to fake the age of the pigment as well as the "paper".

[Dumuzi]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

It is never a "black", Muslim, or Mexican man who commits a crime, its just a man unless he is white - then they provide a description which includes color, race and religion.

Really? It's funny you should say that because to me and lots of people it seems like it's the opposite. Of course I might be wrong cause I'm kinda biased I guess, so who knows.

Because it seems that every time a Muslim commits a crime usually it is directly because of their religion and we have to have debates on whether or not all Muslims are horrible. And then we have 'Islam experts' on TV explaining to us how Islam is directly responsible for said crime, which is usually followed by the same internet and media debate of why Muslims don't speak out against this crime. And then after enough time has passed by, a movie is made about that crime where they make sure there's one Muslim character (played by an Indian as an Arab because brown) who is not totally 100 percent evil so that the movie makers can make the claim that they aren't stereotyping all Muslims as evil.

But hey, what do I know?

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

there's one Muslim character (played by an Indian as an Arab because brown)

I know this isn't a humorous topic, but this made me laugh because in old Hollywood (and probably new) the actors who played Native Americans were usually well-tanned Jews.

[Azvanna]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

Anyone seeking to perpetuate such a stunt would know to fake the age of the pigment as well as the "paper".

So really what you're left with is provenance. I tend to agree with you, Thalassa, when you say that it wouldn't make a lick of difference if it was genuine or not to Christian culture. Because the Bible has already been cannonised and no further commentary may be entered into! The only people it would make a difference to might be the more liberal or to the academic world who aren't really the culture setters anyway.

[thalassa]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

But hey, what do I know?

Nope, you are right. Race mostly comes up in the media is when it's a minority perpetrator. Just like its usually little white kids that make the news when they go missing or get killed.

[Dumuzi]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

I know this isn't a humorous topic, but this made me laugh because in old Hollywood (and probably new) the actors who played Native Americans were usually well-tanned Jews.

Oh, I think it is very humorous. Especially when they have those characters try to speak Arabic

[Medusa]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

It's the Arab or Mexican game.

Just look at Oscar Issac.
Played Orestes, a Roman
Played Prince John in Robin hood (english?)
In Sucker Punch as a smarmy dude with a Latin mustache
Was in Ex Machina and creepy surfer type dude ai creator
And Apocalypse as the first mutant who was Egyptian.

And he's Guatemalan!

Don't even start on Oded Fehr. Arab and Mexican and I thought Russian too.

[Briton]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

And then after enough time has passed by, a movie is made about that crime where they make sure there's one Muslim character (played by an Indian as an Arab because brown) who is not totally 100 percent evil so that the movie makers can make the claim that they aren't stereotyping all Muslims as evil.

But hey, what do I know?

If you think that's bad, you do not want to see Laurence Olivier in 'Khartoum'. He's all painted up, even the palms of his hands.

Jesus Helen Christ, that film was terrible.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

Back on target:

: The Harvard scholar says papyrus is probably a forgery.

From the article:

[thalassa]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

What a bummer for her, you know?

[Azvanna]

Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

What a bummer for her, you know?

Yes, I can hear her heart breaking from here.