http://www.jstor.org/stable/287716
Don't know if you use it or not but there are a number of torrents on http://thepiratebay.sx/ that are collections of various books dealing with multiple aspects of Greek & Roman cultures that might interest you. Many are public domain while some I am not sure of.
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Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Gardenia pretty much summed it up. I don't view Anubis, Kali, Shiva or Hecate as evil, but they do have roles which many people perceive to be so; or at the very least dark. Kali the goddess of death and change, Anubis the protector of the Dead, Shiva the destroyer and Hecate the Goddess of magic. These aspects are not evil, but they are a part of our lives and many people are reluctant to embrace them. Hence "dark". I, for one, find a quiet solace when I look into these parts of our reality and embrace them. Which is why I have an affection for darkness (not evil).
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by Gardenia View PostI think part of the problem here, is that there might be a misunderstanding of what dark means to the different people using it. Many people I've met who use dark to describe something don't also mean evil, which you keep using as a follow-up to dark. Nor do they think that a dark deity can only have dark associations. For example, I would think Anubis could very easily be described as dark, because he is very heavily associated with funerary functions, such as embalming, tombs, protection of the dead, leading the dead through the underworld, judgement of the dead, etc. He's not a god of death or destruction, but he is a god of the dead and underworld, so dark would be a good descriptor - but dark isn't evil, I would never describe Anubis as evil, it just doesn't fit even if dark does.
Yet if you read what I said about Anubis I said"
Anubis on the surface death, destruction, decay, etc but again not dark or evil as it is also tied to fertility, fecundity and things of the earth.
Still it is interesting I used "evil" 4 times in that response, three with regards to Hecate / Hekate and how she is often seen as the crone witch and once with Anubis. Only one time where I joined Evil / Dark with Hecate and how it was unlikely either aspect could be construed and once with Anubis with Not dark or Evil. Yet an assumption was made of me equating the two together. Though nearly every descriptor I used in every response in this thread so far were death, fertility, fecundity and other such chthonic traits and usages.
But to me personally having to do with the underworld or death does not make "Dark" a good descriptor it simply continues a blind fear of things dealing with death and the dead. That's why I tend to use Chthonic for that covers all things dealing with being in the earth, gods / goddesses / spirit or death. Fertility, fecundity, blood, etc are also aspects of the dead and earth and most often are associated to earthly gods / goddesses which are usually the dark gods / goddesses speak of.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by monsno_leedra View PostBut that doesn't make her evil but her lore equates her to death, fertility, destruction, ghosts (almost similar to the Wild Hunt). That and guardian to Persephone / Kore which also allows her passage into and out of Hades and her association with the restless dead because of not having been given proper burial rites and devotions.
Anubus on the surface death, destruction, decay, etc but again not dark or evil as it is also tied to fertility, fecundity and things of the earth.
Or perhaps more appropriately modern pagan perspectives since they are all chthonic gods / goddesses and thus somehow are seen as dark and evil by those who really don't know a lot about them other than they do not fit into the love and white light limitations placed upon celestial gods / goddesses.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by GardenOfShadows View PostHmmm...well, when I pray or meditate, I focus on deities like Shiva or Kali (whom I still love even though I'm no longer really a Hindu). I feel as if I know them very well; along with other deities like Hecate, Loki, Anubis, Dionysus, etc. I also have an affinity for the image of Lucifer (as a light bearer) and view that the quest for spirituality and knowledge best comes from within. When I go outside during the day, I mostly see a congested world. But during the night, we can listen to the breeze as it quietly blows and we can focus better on our practices.
Hecate / Hekate does not gain a dark angle until Roman times and then only an aspect of her later becomes really conflated with the evil crone looking witch. Few of her descriptions have anything dealing with darkness, age, or anything that could be misconstrued as evil / dark. Shinning one, Bright Coffed, etc do not suggest darkness for sure. At best it begins to take shape when she becomes conflated with Triformus. At the same time in development Hecate / Hekate in her Chaldean persona is seen as the world soul, dispatcher of daemons / daimons to guide, inspire or punish humanity. But that doesn't make her evil but her lore equates her to death, fertility, destruction, ghosts (almost similar to the Wild Hunt). That and guardian to Persephone / Kore which also allows her passage into and out of Hades and her association with the restless dead because of not having been given proper burial rites and devotions.
Anubus on the surface death, destruction, decay, etc but again not dark or evil as it is also tied to fertility, fecundity and things of the earth.
Dionysus about the only thing off the top of my head is the similarity to Baccus and the orgies which suggest release from form and structure. Equated at times to Artemis in that both were forms of freedom from the restrictions of society / cultural upon people though freedom achieved via differing methods.
Even Loki in many ways similar to Dionysus in a release form form and structure and the illusion given by each. Perhaps playing to role of the jester or joker as he points out the absurdity of each and ones ability to become entrapped within them. Almost like Coyote in that capacity.
But by associated to the night seems to suggest you really do not know them beyond what modern psychology / sociology suggests them to be in comparison to acceptable paradyns of existence and expectations. Or perhaps more appropriately modern pagan perspectives since they are all chthonic gods / goddesses and thus somehow are seen as dark and evil by those who really don't know a lot about them other than they do not fit into the love and white light limitations placed upon celestial gods / goddesses.
I can't direct or advise any books as there are to many places one has to look for glimmers or fragments that changed through out time. But consider that Hecate / Hekate and the story of Persephone's abduction by Hades. In the original stories she (Hecate / Hekate) is not present. When she is entered in she hears Persephone's cries as she lays within her cavern beneath the earth, suggesting her role as the guardian of the infant Zeus whom she hid in her cavern to protect him and care for him. Then consider as the light bearer she would at best be next to or behind Persephone while they are lead out by Hermes so as not to blind or burn Persephone in the process. Then factor in that rape in antiquity more often applied to taking without proper blessing and release from the mother or parents than any sexual union by force and it further explains the death period that followed as Demeter sough for Persephone and the fields lay barren.
On the surface it seems your conflating the quietness of the night, the quiet of the tomb and peace of death, the quiet energy of the moons silver energy and how sound travels in comparison to the clutter and confusion of the day when many sounds compete for dominance. When sound acts like the domain of life and activity and the energized influence of celestial and sun upon the world. But I admit I maybe wrong in the conclusions i've drawn.
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One series of books that may interest you is a series of The Encyclopedia of ________ books by Rosemary Ellen Guiley. There generally good books with a descent write-up and research. Books I've seen include The-Encyclopdia -of -Magic and Alchemy - Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-ENCYCLOPEDIA-OF-ANGELS Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-Encyclopedia-of-Demons-and-Demonology - Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-Encyclopedia-of-Ghosts-and-Spirits -Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-Encyclopedia-of-Ghosts-and-Spirits -Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-Encyclopedia-of-Saints - Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-Encyclopedia-of-Vampire-Mythology Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, The-Encyclopedia-of-Vampires-Werewolves-and-Monsters Rosemary-Ellen-Guiley, to name a few.
some sites you can search
Internet Sacred Text Archive - Quiet place in cyberspace devoted to religious tolerance and scholarship.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by SeanRave View PostThen you should seek yin and yang both.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by GardenOfShadows View PostI know such things are bad practices and "fluffy", but I'm not too entirely sure how to clarify more. I just simply feel a deep connection with the night; and I view it (along with light) similar to yin-and-yang.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by monsno_leedra View PostI'd suggest perhaps trying to define what you understand nocturnal practices to be and how you'd practice it. A closeness to the night itself is not really creative of a nocturnal practice given the night has as many phases and degree's of darkness as the day has of light. The new moon, the full moon, the dark of the moon, a moonless period, duration of the night as to longest or shortest days of the year, the celestial rotation and placement of objects in the heavens. Even the horizon and it relationship to the movement of both the heavens and the moon and sun chariot as they are driven across the vast expanses.
Personally I do not find the idea of "Dark" aspects to be bad or fluffy. Then again I also do not split things into hard good and bad but move more along the lines of a yin-yang in that there is never a point where it is truly a 50 - 50 ration and static but a dynamic movement that goes from 99 - 1 to 50 - 50 balance as all those extremes keep a balance of the collective whole.
Hmmm...well, when I pray or meditate, I focus on deities like Shiva or Kali (whom I still love even though I'm no longer really a Hindu). I feel as if I know them very well; along with other deities like Hecate, Loki, Anubis, Dionysus, etc. I also have an affinity for the image of Lucifer (as a light bearer) and view that the quest for spirituality and knowledge best comes from within. When I go outside during the day, I mostly see a congested world. But during the night, we can listen to the breeze as it quietly blows and we can focus better on our practices.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
I'd suggest perhaps trying to define what you understand nocturnal practices to be and how you'd practice it. A closeness to the night itself is not really creative of a nocturnal practice given the night has as many phases and degree's of darkness as the day has of light. The new moon, the full moon, the dark of the moon, a moonless period, duration of the night as to longest or shortest days of the year, the celestial rotation and placement of objects in the heavens. Even the horizon and it relationship to the movement of both the heavens and the moon and sun chariot as they are driven across the vast expanses.
Personally I do not find the idea of "Dark" aspects to be bad or fluffy. Then again I also do not split things into hard good and bad but move more along the lines of a yin-yang in that there is never a point where it is truly a 50 - 50 ration and static but a dynamic movement that goes from 99 - 1 to 50 - 50 balance as all those extremes keep a balance of the collective whole.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by Corvus View PostI don't think it makes sense to refer to it as nocturnal paganism and it makes it sounds more fluffy than you intend it to. You'd need to give more specifics on what "dark" things you want to look into since you've given incredibly broad subjects. Personally I think you come off as the type to be attracted to the dark spirits and gods with more perceived maleficence because they're dark and spooky and scary, which is an entirely bad practice. If you narrow what you want then maybe we could give more specifics
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
I don't think it makes sense to refer to it as nocturnal paganism and it makes it sounds more fluffy than you intend it to. You'd need to give more specifics on what "dark" things you want to look into since you've given incredibly broad subjects. Personally I think you come off as the type to be attracted to the dark spirits and gods with more perceived maleficence because they're dark and spooky and scary, which is an entirely bad practice. If you narrow what you want then maybe we could give more specifics
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by GardenOfShadows View PostI do agree that many times, it is teenagers who are attracted to the darker side of life, simply for the sake of shock value. I can't count how many people I knew in High school who were "satanists".
However, I have always had an affection of the darker side of things. Even when I was a child. I also believe that without light there is no darkess and vice-versa. They are ultimately part of the same reality, but my preference is to express my practice by means of the night/darkness. It's just a preference, is all.
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending upon ones views it's not about things that go bump in the night, foul creatures that haunt the borders of civilization and graveyards, or the liminal spots that mark the boundary ways and locations. It's not about foul magics, chants, curses or incantations performed beneath a dark moon period or oaths and blood pacts with dome demon, daemon, daimon or other supposed unearthly creature, entity or demi-human or semi-divine creature. Not to say those may not act as messengers, vengeful spirits or punishers, but that is a different purpose.
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Just to add the only exception to this that I can think of is using the RHP / LHP definition of meaning as it originates in India and parts of Asia. Yet in that capacity its not persay good and evil as much of western usage suggests but arriving at similar enlightenment and knowledge through things that are seen as counter to cultural / social norms and expectations. Yet it is the arrival and enlightenment from it not the actual negative aspects that are employed to arrive at them.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Teenage Satanism ftw \o/
Addressing the subject, I have not much. You might want to check out the Necromicon or such. But as a personal advice I can give you, get that idea out of your head and practice magic as a whole. Personally I don't believe in good or evil, darkness or light.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
Originally posted by monsno_leedra View PostIt's a spookier name for any practice that includes or is based chthonic energies or chthonic gods / goddesses or war gods / goddesses nothing more nothing less. Yet in my opinion a failure for it fails to see the darkness in the light and the light within the deepest darkness. Seems when one hears it it's mostly teenagers or such who practice it for its supposed shock value, sort of like teenage satanism is.
However, I have always had an affection of the darker side of things. Even when I was a child. I also believe that without light there is no darkess and vice-versa. They are ultimately part of the same reality, but my preference is to express my practice by means of the night/darkness. It's just a preference, is all.
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Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?
It's a spookier name for any practice that includes or is based chthonic energies or chthonic gods / goddesses or war gods / goddesses nothing more nothing less. Yet in my opinion a failure for it fails to see the darkness in the light and the light within the deepest darkness. Seems when one hears it it's mostly teenagers or such who practice it for its supposed shock value, sort of like teenage satanism is.
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