Ask A Wiccan

[Orion Guardian-Elm]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

[quote author=Amber link=topic=277.msg9227#msg9227 date=1288719867]
Well, first off....read more then just two books before you decide on any religion. When I first became Wiccan I read all I could get my hands on.

I'm also not a fan of ravenwolfs work (Not many of us are here) but Cunningham is pretty good.

As for the disapointments you felt....your first several rituals will not go perfect. Hell I've been practicing activily in a coven for 4 years almost and none of ours goes "perfect"

If you put too much thought into perfection, you will steer yourself away from the beauty of ritual. The Gods know our intent and do not expect us to be perfect 100% off the time
[/quote]

I've read quite a few books, not just on Wicca, but on Asatru, Vanatru, non-Wiccan Witchcraft, Druidry, etc. Some of the books on Wicca which I have read are The Spiral Dance by Starhawk, The Pocket Guide to Wicca by Paul Tuitean and Estelle Daniels, The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft by Denise Zimmermann, Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler, Witchcraft Today by Gerald B. Gardner, The Gardnerian Book of Shadows, and a number of others. I have also been reading up on Wicca online a lot. I've probably been studying it for about two years now, it's just not until recently that I've decided that I actually want to start walking the Wiccan path.

[Amber]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

I have just finished reading Teen Witch by Silver Ravenwolf and am about to start reading Scott Cunningham's Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner. I feel as if I am drawing from so many different sources and I cannot decided which to use in the long run. It sort of feels like I am trying to do too much at once, while drawing from too many different sources. I also have this problem where I find it difficult to trust myself and be confident in my own intuition. It's probably a beginner thing, but I always feel bad if I get a line wrong in ritual, or if I feel I need to adapt something from a book (such as circle casting).

Well when i read that I just assumed you have just read these LOL. Anyhoo. Why would you feel bad about getting something wrong during ritual.

And don't worry about adapting from a book...we all have done it. You have to learn somewhere right? I take things from books and make them my own by changing things around.

[Orion Guardian-Elm]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

LOL

Sorry, I didn't make that very clear :O

I don't really know why I feel bad about making mistakes during ritual etc - probably just low self-confidence.

I've realised that adaption is just something that you have to do sometimes though - and like you said, most people do adapt rituals/exercises to meet their personal needs.

[Gwen]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

Orion Guardian-Elm, I hear you saying that you want more structure to your path. Pagan paths have a huge range of structure vs improvisation, stretching from the Radical Faeries on the USA West coast who basically do whatever seems like a good idea in the moment (so I hear), to the high-ceremonial traditions like Gardnerians and Golden Dawn types where every movement in the circle is at least a little choreographed within the organization's strict hierarchy.

No one can tell you what's right for you. If you're feeling the need for a group for structure, go to Witchvox and look for local groups and teachers, or to and search Pagan/Wiccan groups in your area. If you're wanting structure but are fine with practicing alone, keep reading about different paths (and hang out in this section to learn about different paths) and figure out a self-imposed structure that works for you. The most important thing right now is to keep reading, learning, and reaching out, and you will find the right place for you. You've gathered a good list of books for study. Keep studying--but also, start experimenting with practice. This is a religion of the body, not just of the head. If you find you have misgivings or fears about practice, explore them too, as confronting them will be formational in the start of your path.

As for self-confidence in ritual? Why not do a ritual in which the elements are cartoon characters, energy-raising is repetitive 90s party dances, and you petition the Great Hen and the Great Rooster for aid? Most of Paganism isn't about getting everything exactly right, and letting go of that and having fun hanging out with the gods may help you release those worries. Or if that seems way too out there for you, perhaps you could light a candle (or a stick of incense, or go to a creek--whatever is your favorite mode of petition) and ask the deity/ies you relate to the most, to help you see where this worry is coming from and to overcome it. If you're still nervous about talking to God/dess/es, a less theistic version of this might be to write down all your fears and worries on a sheet of paper that you rip into tiny pieces and burn, or to energetically pour them into a rock that you fling off a cliff or into a lake/ocean... you get the idea. There are many ways to deal with these setbacks.

[quote author=felixtcat link=topic=277.msg9736#msg9736 date=1288819006]
This is where I get to be totally "ME". In other words, I lose it a little bit. The morons that state that you cannot be Wiccan without having an official membership card and decoder ring from the local Gardnerian Coven are just that, morons.
Of course, being that this is my thread, I get to pound my opinion down everyone's throat. So, based on the "Moronian Wicca" one MUST be linkable to Gardner, one MUST practice skyclad, one MUST recognize the authority of the priestess and/or priest and one MUST achieve a certain level in order to possibly become a priest or priestess. Well, if that's Wicca and ONLY that is Wicca, they can shove it up their collective ass.
[/quote]

LOL. I find they've got a bit of a stick up there already... but in seriousness, the name game isn't unique to us (though we sure play it vigorously). Some Catholics say no one else is Christian. A lot of Christian denominations deny the Christianity of Mormonism. "To be an X, you must do/believe Y like I do" is not an unusual sentiment, though I think we would all be better off if it were. The Gardnerians/Alexandrians had Wicca first, but (just like Protestantism is still generally considered Christianity) it altered over time.

A couple notes on the gaiaonline profile: the woman states that she's a 1st degree. That means her studies are just, just beginning, and may have something to do with her defense of how different what she does is from what those uninitiated riffraff do. Maybe I'm putting words in her mouth here, but I do wonder why she's going out of her way to be so vehement (she's the OP in the linked thread in which she emphasizes the "true" definition of Wicca) before earning more authority in her own authority-driven tradition.

[Nyx]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

[quote author=Gwen link=topic=277.msg9815#msg9815 date=1288832605]
As for self-confidence in ritual? Why not do a ritual in which the elements are cartoon characters, energy-raising is repetitive 90s party dances, and you petition the Great Hen and the Great Rooster for aid?
[/quote]

Sounds like a Discordian ritual. XD

[Gwen]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

[quote author=Nyx link=topic=277.msg9914#msg9914 date=1288883397]
Sounds like a Discordian ritual. XD
[/quote]

That was the idea, yes. How much less structured, more laughable, and less anxiety-producing can a ritual be than a good Discordian jam?

[Christophilos]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

I've always wondered...does it matter to Wiccans that Gardner seems to have slightly bent the truth about Wicca's origins? I mean that it isn't a survival of pre-Christian traditions, but rather folk magic/lore, mixed with a bit here, a bit there, from various romantic and occultic groups (and even a couple of offshoot Christian ones) and from Gardner himself of course. Does it matter?

Oh, and I used to be on gaiaonline - the whole Wiccan thing has been co-opted by Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wiccans who attack any non-trad Wiccans who show their faces. They are all about lineage. Apparently you can't know the real names of the Wiccan God and Goddess unless you have been initiated. They also say you don't know how to worship them because you only know outer-court material, you don't really know anything about the deities or the religion at all. Fundamentalists, huh!

[anunitu]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

It seems that Gardner used a lot of stuff from Charles Godfrey Leland,who wrote a book from Italian Witchcraft.
(see link below)

http://www.witchcraftandwitches.com/witches_leland.html

The witch he interviewed for this book was from Stregheria(The old religion)..and many of the beliefs of Wicca come from this.
As I am of the Stregheria mainly in my path,but also I study early Sumarian beliefs,I could not say for sure if these things are true,due to the many varied accounts online.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

Oh, and I used to be on gaiaonline - the whole Wiccan thing has been co-opted by Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wiccans who attack any non-trad Wiccans who show their faces. They are all about lineage. Apparently you can't know the real names of the Wiccan God and Goddess unless you have been initiated. They also say you don't know how to worship them because you only know outer-court material, you don't really know anything about the deities or the religion at all. Fundamentalists, huh!

To a degree, I can sympathize with them wanting to restrict the term Wiccan. As is, it's a term that has been co-opted by so many conflicting belief systems that it's almost as useful a descriptor as Pagan. Regarding the mildly entertaining theory that none of the sects are properly worshipping the Lord and Lady, that judgement I leave to the divine. If a divinity finds the practices of the varying Wiccan offshoots distasteful then said divinity is more than capable of expressing its displeasure without the help of presumptuous mortals. In the absence of divine action, traditionalist claims there could be interpreted as dangerously arrogant if I were feeling less than charitable.

[Jembru]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

I have been looking for ages and I can't find either of the quotes I wanted to use. I'll return to the thread when I find them (unless someone finds them for me). Anyway, I don't understand why SOME Traditionals are still playing this old record. Valiente herself wrote in favour of making Wicca available to those unable to access a coven for initiation. I am not sure of any written evidence that Gardner had this wish too, but it appears so. Janet is very much pro-self created covens, as was Stewart.

I am sorry if this is common knowledge but I'll repeat it for those who don't know, as I didn't until a lineaged Wiccan friend told me. The 'King of witches' himself, A. Sanders, would initiate just about anybody. My friend told of how he once initiated something like 100 witches he had never met, in one day, at a pagan event! So there are now thousands of covens lineaged to Alexander (and therefore Gardner), who were no more qualified than any self-initiated coven you could join or start. I think this is evident in their petty, closed-minded, possessive and almost bullying behaviour.

The lineaged High Priestess I know, is the most spiritual and genuine witch I could ever hope to meet, is also in support of self-initiation and was initiated by Janet Farrar herself. I trust this lady's information over anything I read on forums from so-called Traditionals.

I am myself not lineaged so I cannot say for sure, but this secret information that they claim you can't worship the Lady and Lord without, is apparently nothing more than the usual coven mysteries that outsiders just wouldn't find any value in. All covens have that. I know mine did, and we didn't think we were any better than anyone else.

It really is about time this pathetic behaviour was removed from Wicca. Unfortunately, it has been around for so long, I fear this will never happen.

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------

As for the 'do Wiccans care about Gardner bending the truth'. At least in the North of England, it would appear they do not. It is a system that for those who follow it, works and that is all that matters.

My personal feeling is that Wicca is a way for Deity to create a spiritual religion that is fitting for the modern world and our changing needs. Every Wiccan forms their own relationship with Deity, they learn from Goddess and God, then feed back to others, who may add this to their own lessons and so on.. so that Wicca is always evolving, hopefully, under the influence of Deity. As the modern world is constantly changing and evolving, it seems fitting that we have access to a religion which does the same. I'm a huge fan of Darwin though!

[Taliesyn]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

I had a gardenarian back in the 80's offer to "inniate me properly". I had been taught by a memeber of a druidic wiccan coven now known as the Circle of Isis Rising , and i promptly told him to piss off. now I do know that the Gardenarians (and alexanderians) have secret names for the gods. I seem to remember them starting with " G and P" from a ritual i did with that same guy.

as far as the whole "is wicca ancient" debate. I don't care. I'm not one that considers somethings age when I decide if it is valid to me. if that was the case, I would have a cave drawing and a venus of willendorf to worship (oh wait- there is a venus of willendorf on my altar...)

[Jembru]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

And there's nothing wrong with a bootilishious Venus of Willendorf. That's a figure we can all aspire to! Sorry, that was off topic. I do agree though. The age of Wicca subtracts nothing from its affectiveness as a complete working system. I'm sorry you had to meet one of THOSE Traditionals. I swear that they're not all like that here. The longer they've had their lineage/the closest to the founding members their line is, the more open-minded they appear to be in my experience. The others.. I still say what I did previously, they're on an ego trip and have no more claim to Wicca than anyone else now that so much information is readily available.

[MyPseudonym]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

Here's a question for the Wiccans: a woman told me that she is very much against sharing spells. She says that for someone else to use your spell draws energy away from yours. Is this an actual "WICCAN" belief or just hers? I don't happen to agree with that; I think that each person puts his/her own energy into a spell or ritual he or she performs and it doesn't have any effect on your own spell. I have no problem sharing rituals I have created with others; it seems like most of the time, the people who I have shared with are happy with the results. She said I should be concerned that others might change what I have given them. That really doesn't bother me, either. If they find something that works better for them and add to or edit a ritual I made to customize it for them, what's the harm?

The woman I was speaking to also said that you should not think about a spell once it is cast, because dwelling on it also draws energy away from the spell. Again, is this a traditional Wiccan belief, or just the woman's personal beliefs? I have heard others (including people on here) saying that thinking about what you want after performing a spell can ADD energy to the spell and make it better...like stating an affirmation related to the spell afterward.

Thoughts?

[Jembru]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

When I was a wiccan, I never came across the first belief. It may just be specific to her own coven's traditions, or it may have simply never come up when I was studying (or I slept through that lesson). Possibly, and maybe even more likely, it could be a mixed, reversed or confused version of the more common belief that it is better one should design their own spell, rather than use someone else's.

As for not speaking of a spell. This IS still a popular belief, although it is definitely losing popularity. It has its roots in the theory of the Witches' Pyramid. The pyramid is still included in many covens' liturgy and can be a useful meditative tool if used correctly. However, there is a lot of mixed information about it. Some witches (and it is possible earlier Gardnerian covens believed this too, although it doesn't feature in their Book of Shadows to my knowledge), consider it to be a collection of rules on how to cast spells. The Earth Pillar, tacere translates as 'to keep silent' so some people literally translate this as meaning one mustn't speak of, or think about their spells after they're cast. In my own personal understanding, this is not what tacere means, but this is not what you were asking about, so I'll leave it there.

There is however, sense in not speaking too much about spell work. Disbelief from others does seem to be able to interact with workings and possibly even prevent their success. Telling a close fellow practitioner about your efforts however, doesn't seem to cause any harm in my experience and may even enhance a working. I prefer to keep silent mainly because I think any workings I do are between me and my deities and no one else really needs to know. Until they work that is, then I'm yelling from the rooftops!

Someone might correct me here, but I think Silver Ravenwolf's books promoted this idea of not thinking about a spell after casting, so it might, unfortunately, be her who has caused the confusion. It also sounds like something Scott Cunningham would write, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear this concept is taught in his books too.

Really though, there is no right or wrong way to practice wicca. There are only concepts that work and concepts that don't. It seems that the more successful and enduring traditions, are those that nurture and encourage creativity and individuality amongst their members. I'm not a big fan of rigidity when it comes to beliefs, and I feel there is still a little too much 'this is the way it must be done' in a lot of wiccan traditions.

[Siloh]

Re: Ask A Wiccan

Uhm, I'm not sure if the OP is still active on this thread or if this is something they could help me with, but
I'm very curious about this, and, Jembru, you could probably speak to this a bit.

Is it just me, or is Britain really witchy? Not like, stereotypical, oh those Brits are stuck in the past type witchy, but it seems like a lot of modern witchery is more popular there than here.

Is this a misconception, or does Britian seem to have a stronger relationship with the occult, or maybe just more prominent practicing witches? I'm not sure if this has a whole lot to do with Wicca in particular, though there does appear to me that Britain has more Wiccans or Wicca tradition/history.