Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

[Rowanwood]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

Not really going to take safety advice from a religion that nails people to crosses...

This is wrong on so many levels.

Because frankly, the primary people who crucified people were the Romans...and they were pagans.

[DON]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

When I was about 10 or 12, my parents were involved with assisting some witches leave a coven. My dad and I also hunted a lot with a Satanist whose wife had joined our church.
I remember some pretty freaky stuff happening. Dangerous things.
When someone decides to leave their master who they've worshipped then they should expect trouble.

Often though it's the human connections that present the most physical danger. For instance the Satanist friend was also a hells angels gang member. I have no idea how he severed those ties, or if he even did. I suspect he didn't. In the case of the witches, the coven wasn't very understanding at all...

[Ektor]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

I've never ever, ever heard of coven people violently trying to keep people in their midst. People from churches do all sort of negative propaganda of neopagan people just because, my father and people from his Church do this all the time to me without even realizing by calling my beliefs "crazy" or "childlish".

[Malflick]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

When I was about 10 or 12, my parents were involved with assisting some witches leave a coven. My dad and I also hunted a lot with a Satanist whose wife had joined our church.
I remember some pretty freaky stuff happening. Dangerous things.
When someone decides to leave their master who they've worshipped then they should expect trouble.

Often though it's the human connections that present the most physical danger. For instance the Satanist friend was also a hells angels gang member. I have no idea how he severed those ties, or if he even did. I suspect he didn't. In the case of the witches, the coven wasn't very understanding at all...

examples of a few things aren't always the norm. In this case, I'd say your experience was very much far from the norm.

I've had friends have lots of problems leaving churches, and have been hounded or shunned by people they knew for it. That's pretty bad in itself.

Any group that is big enough is going to have jerks: Christians, Pagans, Athiests, etc, whomever. That doesn't make the group as a whole that.

[thalassa]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

I've had friends have lots of problems leaving churches, and have been hounded or shunned by people they knew for it.

I know many people that fall into this camp.

And only one or two that had problems leaving their coven---and that was because they created a whole lotta drama and got kicked out and people were mad at them for a long time.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

When I was about 10 or 12, my parents were involved with assisting some witches leave a coven. My dad and I also hunted a lot with a Satanist whose wife had joined our church.
I remember some pretty freaky stuff happening. Dangerous things.
When someone decides to leave their master who they've worshipped then they should expect trouble.

Often though it's the human connections that present the most physical danger. For instance the Satanist friend was also a hells angels gang member. I have no idea how he severed those ties, or if he even did. I suspect he didn't. In the case of the witches, the coven wasn't very understanding at all...

This sounds more like emotional manipulation. It is very easy to be tricked into seeing things that aren't real with powerful suggestion, especially as a child.

To be frank, most covens pitter out all by themselves. There's nothing to "get away" from. I know I've never met any form of pagan or ex pagan with this as a legitimate experience, so I have to take this with a pretty big grain of salt. I think you are more likely to run into a dangerous thing at a seedy bar than a pagan pride festival.

As far as the biker issue? Well, in the 70s there was a trend of gangs on the west coast that did some bad things, but most bikers at not like that. Usually you find this: http://bacaworld.org/

[DON]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

Yeah the guy was never a biker although he did teach me how to use a knife properly amongst other useful things :-)
He was ex military and travelled a lot...

Most of the coven activity was to scare the people back. Like you said, there is more physical danger in a seedy bar, or engaging a chosen one for that matter.

Emotional manipulation does happen and the power of a curse contains an element of that. I would tend to explain the manifestations and astral plane attacks of those who were trying to leave in this way.

As a child I was shielded in this particular instance (I should have been clearer) and did not personally experience things like this until I was old enough and equipped to deal with it.

Yet there is an element of reality there too. When a decapitated "thing" comes busting through the wall, down the stairs, and out the front door it takes quite a strong suggestion for the people who didn't see it to spend hours cleaning up the (non existent?) blood.

Yes, that's not normal, and I am aware that it's a long way outside of "normal". However, seek and you shall find...

[Rowanwood]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

Yeah the guy was never a biker although he did teach me how to use a knife properly amongst other useful things :-)
He was ex military and travelled a lot...

Most of the coven activity was to scare the people back. Like you said, there is more physical danger in a seedy bar, or engaging a chosen one for that matter.

Emotional manipulation does happen and the power of a curse contains an element of that. I would tend to explain the manifestations and astral plane attacks of those who were trying to leave in this way.

As a child I was shielded in this particular instance (I should have been clearer) and did not personally experience things like this until I was old enough and equipped to deal with it.

Yet there is an element of reality there too. When a decapitated "thing" comes busting through the wall, down the stairs, and out the front door it takes quite a strong suggestion for the people who didn't see it to spend hours cleaning up the (non existent?) blood.

Yes, that's not normal, and I am aware that it's a long way outside of "normal". However, seek and you shall find...

So you are saying a spiritually manifested entity spewed actual blood all over the place and not one person said "hey, maybe we should document this as a proof of an actual paranormal event and so people actually believe us?" Or like called an authority figure or something. Because every day people are investigating paranormal events...and run around being Witches and Satanists and I have never seen any proof of such an event ever occurring.

That just seems...surprising.

[anunitu]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

Actually Rowan it does not surprise me at all,if you are taught that some things are "Real" then after a long time they do become "real" for you. If you believe enough you will "see" those things

[Aeran]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

So you are saying a spiritually manifested entity spewed actual blood all over the place and not one person said "hey, maybe we should document this as a proof of an actual paranormal event and so people actually believe us?" Or like called an authority figure or something. Because every day people are investigating paranormal events...and run around being Witches and Satanists and I have never seen any proof of such an event ever occurring.

That just seems...surprising.

Acting, for the sake of argument, on the assumption that what he described did happen, exactly what documentation would they be able to put together that would convince anyone of anything? Photo/video evidence is absolutely meaningless because it can be faked so easily, so why would someone even bother producing it?

[Denarius]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

^Physical samples for one. Anomalous blood of unknown origin would be interesting at least.

[lightdragon]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

Acting, for the sake of argument, on the assumption that what he described did happen, exactly what documentation would they be able to put together that would convince anyone of anything? Photo/video evidence is absolutely meaningless because it can be faked so easily, so why would someone even bother producing it?

there wouldn't exactly be proof. but there would have been some sort of document on it. or people coming to see it. paranormal activity where physical manifestations are present are rare and attacks are even rarer. there would have been various teams coming to document it whether there was proof or not. also what exactly was the "blood". paranormal investigators can detect if the person is faking it, crazy/delusional , a logical explanation and/or something else. as something of this type would have happened more than once.

however there are incidents of adolescents where their psyche sometimes creates these events and dispates when they get out of it. most often they are female but on a rarer incidents male.
the basis of the movie The Exorist (staring linda Blair) was based on the events that happened to a boy.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

Acting, for the sake of argument, on the assumption that what he described did happen, exactly what documentation would they be able to put together that would convince anyone of anything? Photo/video evidence is absolutely meaningless because it can be faked so easily, so why would someone even bother producing it?

Have you met a paranormal investigator? I know several and they work very hard to try to find any legitimate proof -- because a lot of their proof is dicey at best, actual stuff like blood would be pretty damn serious. In the age of DNA testing, that could be a hell of a thing. Imagine, blood that is blood but without DNA? Unless ghosts have DNA or something. But really?

Even if something is less than believable, people are trying to get it on film, save samples. People are nuts for this stuff and frankly, if I had such an experience, you can bet your ass I'd do whatever I could to prove it really happened.

I've had some weirdo experiences in my life and spent much time trying to prove and disprove what occurred. Just taking it on face value ... that's unexpected to me.

And sort of sad.

[Aeran]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

^Physical samples for one. Anomalous blood of unknown origin would be interesting at least.

Interesting to who? You think they're going to take a sample of some substance to a scientist and say 'this came from a ghost' and the scientist will look at it under a microscope and say 'yep, we've got some genuine ghost blood here' and they'll all get a nobel prize and everyone will believe in spirits? Don't be absurd.

That's assuming that the alleged blood actually has anything to distinguish it from regular blood - if we've got a spirit which can manifest blood, why can't they just manifest normal blood?

Have you met a paranormal investigator? I know several and they work very hard to try to find any legitimate proof -- because a lot of their proof is dicey at best, actual stuff like blood would be pretty damn serious. In the age of DNA testing, that could be a hell of a thing. Imagine, blood that is blood but without DNA? Unless ghosts have DNA or something. But really?

Even if something is less than believable, people are trying to get it on film, save samples. People are nuts for this stuff and frankly, if I had such an experience, you can bet your ass I'd do whatever I could to prove it really happened.

I've had some weirdo experiences in my life and spent much time trying to prove and disprove what occurred. Just taking it on face value ... that's unexpected to me.

And sort of sad.

I didn't even think that "paranormal investigators" were a real thing outside of cheesy TV shows. But you're still making the flawed assumption that everyone would react in a situation the same way you would. My experience is that most people with spiritual practices who experience weird stuff on a regular basis just accept it casually and aren't out to prove anything to anyone - anything becomes mundane if you experience it often enough.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Former Witch: The Danger & Deception of Wicca ?

I didn't even think that "paranormal investigators" were a real thing outside of cheesy TV shows. But you're still making the flawed assumption that everyone would react in a situation the same way you would. My experience is that most people with spiritual practices who experience weird stuff on a regular basis just accept it casually and aren't out to prove anything to anyone - anything becomes mundane if you experience it often enough.

The fact that you don't realize paranormal investigation is a real thing shows me you don't really have any experience or knowledge in this subject. So perhaps I need to take you comments with this in mind but nonetheless, I'm just very confused by your opinion.

So you think it is legitimately common enough for decapitated entities to go running about spewing blood that not one person would say are you sure we shouldn't call the police? Because frankly, if anyone I knew saw something that left enough blood to require hours worth of cleaning, I PROMISE there would be police involved.

Who really sees this everyday? I'm highly skeptical to think this happens all the time yet I've never heard of it in 20 years of interest in the paranormal.