Age in Wicca

[Gleb]

Re: Age in Wicca

In my opinion, age really doesn't matter. Not only in Wicca. But in every other religion. Because one person can have a totally different experience from another. Without any connection to their age. As it was pointed out already, teens are often not taken seriously. But those people who judge according to the age of the person are simply not right. It's true that with age comes experience, but a younger person can have something that an older person can not. The same thing can happen otherwise too.
So for me, judging only by the age is pointless. I look (not judge) on the years of participation in a religion.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Age in Wicca

In my opinion, age really doesn't matter. Not only in Wicca. But in every other religion. Because one person can have a totally different experience from another. Without any connection to their age. As it was pointed out already, teens are often not taken seriously. But those people who judge according to the age of the person are simply not right. It's true that with age comes experience, but a younger person can have something that an older person can not. The same thing can happen otherwise too.
So for me, judging only by the age is pointless. I look (not judge) on the years of participation in a religion.

For a lot of covens and people age is a judgement factor of legality not capability. In many ways its also tied to culpability and accountability of actions and acceptance of it. Figure as a minor you (collective usage) can screw up pretty much anything and you'll not be held to the same degree of libel as an adult or person of age. It sucks but its still a fact and many will continue to consider teens as not being culpable or accountable therefor not equal to those who have to assume accountability and culpability for all they do.

[Gleb]

Re: Age in Wicca

For a lot of covens and people age is a judgement factor of legality not capability. In many ways its also tied to culpability and accountability of actions and acceptance of it. Figure as a minor you (collective usage) can screw up pretty much anything and you'll not be held to the same degree of libel as an adult or person of age. It sucks but its still a fact and many will continue to consider teens as not being culpable or accountable therefor not equal to those who have to assume accountability and culpability for all they do.

It's their own decision. This how it works in Wicca, I guess. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I have no problem with it.
I'm Kemetic, and my view was written by my own thoughts. My knowledge about Wicca is very limited. In Kemetism it works differently. So I will just leave it as it is.

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But on the other hand, I would like to know more about how it works in Wicca.

[thalassa]

Re: Age in Wicca

But on the other hand, I would like to know more about how it works in Wicca.

You mean in terms of age?

In traditional Wicca, as Gerald Gardner founded it, there was ritual nudity and even ritual sex...even in those lineages or covens where ritual sex or is no longer literal sex, there are lots of sex themes in the Wheel of the Year and other aspects of Wiccan mythology/liturgy. Combine that with the nudity aspect (though a number of groups have gone away from this too), you can see why having legal minors in a group might be problematic. Also, there's the bit about consent and parents...in some groups, where parents are also part of the group its okay for underage practitioners, and in some its been okay with written or verbal permission at a particular age that might be older than the legal majority, but other groups just don't want the headache of some kid whose parents find out they are *omg* "practicing witchcraft" (read worshipping the devil) and threaten all sorts of police and whatnot. Many Pagans aren't "out of the broom closet" since they live in conservative areas or work as nurses or teachers, etc...a parent throwing a fit over their minor child could seriously ruin the lives of a number of people in the wrong community.

[Gleb]

Re: Age in Wicca

You mean in terms of age?

In traditional Wicca, as Gerald Gardner founded it, there was ritual nudity and even ritual sex...even in those lineages or covens where ritual sex or is no longer literal sex, there are lots of sex themes in the Wheel of the Year and other aspects of Wiccan mythology/liturgy. Combine that with the nudity aspect (though a number of groups have gone away from this too), you can see why having legal minors in a group might be problematic. Also, there's the bit about consent and parents...in some groups, where parents are also part of the group its okay for underage practitioners, and in some its been okay with written or verbal permission at a particular age that might be older than the legal majority, but other groups just don't want the headache of some kid whose parents find out they are *omg* "practicing witchcraft" (read worshipping the devil) and threaten all sorts of police and whatnot. Many Pagans aren't "out of the broom closet" since they live in conservative areas or work as nurses or teachers, etc...a parent throwing a fit over their minor child could seriously ruin the lives of a number of people in the wrong community.

Yeah, I meant in age. Thanks for sharing, Thal! But what about the other experiences in Wicca that don't involve nudity and sex? I wouldn't assume that minors / teenagers have a restricted access to the materials of the religion.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Age in Wicca

Yeah, I meant in age. Thanks for sharing, Thal! But what about the other experiences in Wicca that don't involve nudity and sex? I wouldn't assume that minors / teenagers have a restricted access to the materials of the religion.

With the exception of family member's that exclusion of teens was common in every grouping I am aware of such as Wicca, Stregia, Santeria, Odinism, etc. Main reason not specifically due to inability to grasp but legal and cultural influences. In many ways it also falls into the contributing to the delinquency of a minor and how society holds adults accountable for their actions. If a parent takes them to the "Church" its fine, anyone else and you start potential issues especially if they do so without parental consent.

For some it falls to more mundane reasons but still important to the functionality and operation of the group. Those being commitment and dedication to the pathway. The pathway takes president over parties, dates, friends, etc and you have to be willing to make that commitment and many still do not see teen's and young 20's being willing to do so.

Of course that doesn't even touch upon the older notion of a male always teaching a younger woman and a woman always teaching a younger male as one on one mentor / acloyte. Yes, that to used to be a core aspect of many practices that were styled off of a Wiccan model. That tied into accountability and implied authority of position and how one could misuse that position. A fact far more frequent than many want to admit though you used to hear of it quite often.

Solitary changed a lot of things but seldom does the solitary know what it means to be part of a group or coven and what all it entails. Group dynamics even outside of religious situations still separate teens from adults in most instances, but especially so due to accountability and culpability of ones actions.

[Gleb]

Re: Age in Wicca

With the exception of family member's that exclusion of teens was common in every grouping I am aware of such as Wicca, Stregia, Santeria, Odinism, etc. Main reason not specifically due to inability to grasp but legal and cultural influences. In many ways it also falls into the contributing to the delinquency of a minor and how society holds adults accountable for their actions. If a parent takes them to the "Church" its fine, anyone else and you start potential issues especially if they do so without parental consent.

For some it falls to more mundane reasons but still important to the functionality and operation of the group. Those being commitment and dedication to the pathway. The pathway takes president over parties, dates, friends, etc and you have to be willing to make that commitment and many still do not see teen's and young 20's being willing to do so.

Of course that doesn't even touch upon the older notion of a male always teaching a younger woman and a woman always teaching a younger male as one on one mentor / acloyte. Yes, that to used to be a core aspect of many practices that were styled off of a Wiccan model. That tied into accountability and implied authority of position and how one could misuse that position. A fact far more frequent than many want to admit though you used to hear of it quite often.

Solitary changed a lot of things but seldom does the solitary know what it means to be part of a group or coven and what all it entails. Group dynamics even outside of religious situations still separate teens from adults in most instances, but especially so due to accountability and culpability of ones actions.

So what profit does each group get from being separated from another? Are there special ceremonies that are especially for teens and special ceremonies for adults? Or teachings?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Age in Wicca

So what profit does each group get from being separated from another? Are there special ceremonies that are especially for teens and special ceremonies for adults? Or teachings?

To be honest the answer would be yes, special ceremonies, teachings, level of teachings and ceremonies, etc. Things based off of interest, gender, identification of pathwalk, specialty of a given practice, coven, group. Heck even based upon how one was hived off or connection to an older practice and lineage.

Benefits? Consider sites like this one where newbies have a safe and secure area to learn and the rules aren't so limited or strict. Gives them a safe place but also reduces the amount of people that are telling them what they have to learn, how to learn it, what to believe, how to believe, etc. Not to say they can't ask other elders, etc but its staged in many ways so that one progress from stage to stage. In many ways its controlled but also free in what and how a person will experience the mystical part and use the physical / psychological to understand and grow from it.

One benefit from it though is that a person may progress at a rapid rate and have outstanding results. It changes their attitude and perspective, many times inflating their own ego. So when they do cross into the big game they think those results will carry them and many times discover everyone else has done it as well and they are not as important as they think themselves to be. Quite often they will also discover their mouths do not write a check their bodies and reputations will have to cash. Especially by those who will step up and challenge and test them and many times blow them out of the water because they don't have the experience and knowledge. Yet you hope their bragging and inflated ego's fall away while they are still playing and not really being held accountable and culpable for what they do while as children, teens and under instruction. I suppose in that regard its like the difference between a person who is still in school and one who has graduated and crossed into the work force. In school your allowed mistakes and it doesn't carry forward, out of school it goes on and on and on and their is little to no forgiveness for screwing up.

I see a lot of people, but teens especially, whose sole association with something is self taught and then think they should be treated as equals to those who've gone through a formal education process. Those who think they should be given something special, consideration, circumstance, etc due to their age even though they can't produce or explain what many call simplistic tasks and processes.

Have to admit it always strikes me odd that people can accept science, many sports, work place, etc as having levels and degree's of experience and demonstration of abilities to advance. Yet bring it up in a mystical scenario and suddenly its suddenly different and your supposed to change perspective. For many book experience and speculation fails against worldly experience and conditioning due to age.

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As an aside though i've heard many times over the years, a lot of teens are given less than full consideration because they are seen as not really living it. Many, if not most, still live with mom and dad and hide what they are doing. Yet, then they try to tell others how to do something when they themselves are not living it fully. They risk nothing they gain nothing, its all a game because its hidden and not being lived. Stand up for your beliefs on some net site or among their in the know friends but nothing beyond that. That was a big issue for many I personally knew and know.

[satanic witch]

Re: Age in Wicca

Monsno_leedra would I be considered fluffy (lol) ive practiced witchcraft for ten years now I started when I was six years old then spent my time researching my current path I don't hide my religion from my parents or anyone around me I don't go off spouting out my prowess since I don't believe in it and I'm always willing to learn and to teach , I have taught a couple of wiccans whom have practiced longer then me in wicca . So in any way am I fluffy , PS I'm sixteen .

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Age in Wicca

Monsno_leedra would I be considered fluffy (lol) ive practiced witchcraft for ten years now I started when I was six years old then spent my time researching my current path I don't hide my religion from my parents or anyone around me I don't go off spouting out my prowess since I don't believe in it and I'm always willing to learn and to teach , I have taught a couple of wiccans whom have practiced longer then me in wicca . So in any way am I fluffy , PS I'm sixteen .

I really haven't followed what you've written so couldn't say for certain from my perspective. That aside you did say one thing in another thread about being uber powerful and will always know more than others. That where I came up would qualify you as a fluffy want-a-bee for its speaking from ego though it does fall on the dark side of the fluffy spectrum.

But on the surface as I stated I haven't read enough to say based upon a site on the net. Yet other than that one statement I don't see a lot of the uber powerful and special snowflake stuff I see with a lot of teens and such. However, from a coven or lineage perspective it still would not get you into many groups based upon your age unless it was a family trad type situation where it is blood and not age that drives the qualifications. Heck even an account on some pagan sites as they still push the legality of age situation first or what areas you can access.

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All that aside site wise info is not what gets one into a coven or group nor does it really prove you are or are not what you claim. There-in lies the difficulty I think is accessing things from a site, you have to sort of judge based upon word usage and such.

[satanic witch]

Re: Age in Wicca

I don't remember saying anything about being uber powerful as u put it but then again u may have mistook me for saying I'm rather good in a certain type of witchcraft. And I honstley don't see the big deal with age in a coven or group up until legality becomes an issue

[thalassa]

Re: Age in Wicca

And I honstley don't see the big deal with age in a coven or group up until legality becomes an issue

Group dynamics, particularly those of a coven, aren't just about someone's witchy skill. They are about interpersonal communication and cohesion. Age does matter (in the context of talking about a group vs the individual), as it reflects the number of years you've had upon this earth to collect certain types of life experience. Its another one of those things that comes down to the average of the group and not the specifics of an exceptional individual.

[Aislin]

Re: Age in Wicca

I am 33 but i look very young, have all my life, and its frustrating when people only see your age. But there are a couple of ways you can handle it. First being just to let them think what they want, you don't really have to acknowledge it, If they want to judge a Kindle by its Case, thats on them. They will be missing out on a lot.

... Another way of looking at it... Its a chance to surprise them... They expect you to be young and naive, and when you turn out to be knowledgeable, yet willing to learn and grow, then ur so called weakness (youth) becomes a strength...

The wrong way to handle it is to take offense. You are playing right into their hands. Just grit ur teeth and smile. =)