Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

[thalassa]

So....I read someone's claim that how you spell when writing your spell, where you put your commas and paragraph breaks for your devotional poetry, whether or not you use the right 'your' and 'their' in your ritual script has lasting and enduring ramifications to any sort of magic or ritual, etc you attempt.

Agree, disagree?

(I'm more of the intent over the recipe and props sort of girl...so, disagree for me.)

Where does this idea come from?

[anunitu]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

I would also go with intent,but I do know some people feel it must follow exact form to be correct.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

Conditionally, yes. Do I think that only certain words can accomplish certain things? Not particularly. However, if I'm going to frame magic in words then I want

A. For the words I'm using to provide a clear description of what I'm looking to accomplish.
B. For the words I'm using to be ones that I'm comfortable saying

Short version, on a universal level, there countless ways to accomplish something. On a personal level, 99.999999% of those countless ways might fail and fail hard.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

I personally think it would depend upon which language one is using. Figure even though I speak English and write in it I occasionally will write in Greek. As such placement of things can change the whole meaning and purpose.

Consider for instance if I write Hekate and try to keep it aligned to Greek influence I will always spell it with a "K" vice the Roman influence using the "C". Same thing for other words such as Ephesus vice Ephesos.

[Medusa]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

This sounds like magikal grammar nazis if you ask me.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

It only matters if your gods are lawyers, or English teachers.

IMHO - I think the idea came from ritual magicians who were trying to control things they didn't really understand and needed complicated props to create the right feeling of "being in control."

That's where the concept that, if you don't make your circle exactly right, you'd be shredded came from...

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

It depends how bad the spelling or grammar is. I think it's lazy to go with text speak - but that's a personal opinion. And I think taking care with a spell is part of the preparatory work.
Only in extreme cases though is it likely to make a difference.
I suspect the gods are used to it.

[anunitu]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

If you look at OLD english magical parchments,it would make you go.."How do I pronounce THAT?"

Stuff here.

Pic here.


So if you wanted to do a spell,using the old english original...wondering just how you would proceed.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

It depends how bad the spelling or grammar is. I think it's lazy to go with text speak - but that's a personal opinion. And I think taking care with a spell is part of the preparatory work.
Only in extreme cases though is it likely to make a difference.
I suspect the gods are used to it.

I think this is about right.

I'd kind of think that the mighty ones, if worthy of the title, understand the difference between literacy and lazyness. Doing the prep work as well as one is able relates to literacy - not everybody has a good, formal education - but working below one's ability relates to being lazy, and demonstrates disrespect.

(The Christian gospels were originally written in extremely bad Greek - the equivelent of modern day ebonics)

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

I both agree and disagree.

I disagree because language (any language) is a beautiful thing. It allows us to communicate our thoughts, our feelings, our wants, our needs, our desires with each other. I also disagree because laziness is a trait I'm not particularly fond of.

However, there are more ways in this universe to communicate than with just words alone. There is body expression, facial microexpression, passion, intent, and raw emotion.

And like Corbin said, the gods aren't exactly english teachers (or language professors).

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

If you look at OLD english magical parchments,it would make you go.."How do I pronounce THAT?"

Stuff here.

Pic here.


So if you wanted to do a spell,using the old english original...wondering just how you would proceed.

Well, I think I would go back to something like the Lacnunga and take if from there. Actually Old English isn't that hard to speak, once you get the hang of it (although there are such things as Old English Grammar Nazis who pounce upon the slightest infraction.'

I remember once doing a talk at Witchfest international and actually reciting a spell in Anglo-Saxon. I don't know whether anyone present actually got their cattle back, but the audience said it made shivers run up and down their spines.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd kind of think that the mighty ones, if worthy of the title, understand the difference between literacy and lazyness. Doing the prep work as well as one is able relates to literacy - not everybody has a good, formal education - but working below one's ability relates to being lazy, and demonstrates disrespect.

(The Christian gospels were originally written in extremely bad Greek - the equivelent of modern day ebonics)

Beautifully put.

[anunitu]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

But then Ms. P,you actually can speak and understand welsh....so you have a big head start on us 'Mericans and our strange off shoots of our modern english.

Think about those that believe you should write in Emoji...

[DavidMcCann]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

There's a belief that lesser spirits need to be called on by the right name, rightly pronounced. The Chaldean Oracles warn us to "never alter the native names" and ancient magical papyri are full of them. But gods are a different matter: if Isis could cope with being called Rusat by Cheops and Esi by Cleopatra, they can't be too fussy. Obviously the language of a prayer or hymn should be the best you can do, out of respect.

As for magic in the strict sense, if the words work for you, then surely that's all that matters.

Spelling? Well, inscriptions on a talisman obviously matter, but if it's a text you're going to read, then if you know what it means, who cares?

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?

But then Ms. P,you actually can speak and understand welsh....so you have a big head start on us 'Mericans and our strange off shoots of our modern english.

Think about those that believe you should write in Emoji...

Wish I could speak and understand Welsh fluently, I really do. Instead I learned French, German and Latin in my youth... The others (including Old English/Anglo-Saxon) came much later.

Mr P can speak Welsh... I can just sit there and listen to him read it sometimes. It sounds so beautiful!

[Medusa]

Re: Does Grammar, Spelling, Wording, etc. Matter in Spells, Rituals, etc.?