How do gods come to be?

[Medusa]

Re: How do gods come to be?

Deities were created with the rest of the Universe when the Universe came into being. But their existence is dependent on belief and/or the sheer existence of what they *are*. The names and faces we give them are purely cultural and are a reflection of us.

Now this seems to make sense. Then I get to thinking..deities create the universe. But do not follow any universal laws. Which makes me think: Douche bag Deities!

[Louisvillian]

Re: How do gods come to be?

How do they come to be? Who are they created by? Are they based on people that have existed?

The beings themselves? I believe that a great many simply are and were not created by any specific entity. Other than flowing outward from a primordial, basic principle or force of existence. Some may have been further created, but this isn't something I have any strong opinion on. Overall theology and cosmogony, though, I usually defer to the wording of Pythagoras, later Hermeticism, and early Wiccan theorists. That there is an all-encompassing, genderless, person-less, and primordial "god" which is The All (or as Gerald Gardner referred to it, "Dryghten"), and that the gods worshipped by most pagans are ones that flow from this entity, and form a part of nature and existence in an intimate, immanent way as well as having a consciousness that exists transcendently.
I may very well be completely wrong. But those are my beliefs.

The gods, as we perceive them? A confluence of the actual beings and the social needs of the time and culture in which they were described and to whom they most often communicated. Example: the Greek god Zeus may very well be a powerful, ruling deity with a dominant personality and associations with electricity, the sky, and the weather; but other aspects of him, such as him being a representation of patriarchy and tradition and being the outright King of the Gods, is likely something latched upon him by the Greek peoples that needed a figure to represent the cultural emphasis on social traditionalism, masculine authority and values, oligarchical power structure, and hierarchy. Perhaps they are given additional power or form by our conceptions of them, and are affected by this just as much as we are affected by them? Unknown, but an interesting concept.

[Dumuzi]

Re: How do gods come to be?

I agree. I believe everything has a creator. Which means....even God. Which goes against the very idea of God. Which means...something is very false.

If everything has a creator then nothing would have existed.

[Simon Slade]

Re: How do gods come to be?

They came to be because we needed them. For me at least, Corbin's choice of the word "invented" seems too conscious...too aware.

I think gods fill a niche, a need created by a particular society or represent needs and values. Often in modern times, what is being worshiped in that fashion isn't always recognized as a god either.

I agree with this. I believe that humans "created" the gods, but I also agree with this:

Deities were created with the rest of the Universe when the Universe came into being. But their existence is dependent on belief and/or the sheer existence of what they *are*. The names and faces we give them are purely cultural and are a reflection of us.

I don't entirely agree, but I think there are universal archetypes and ideas that the forms of deities have been constructed around, so they weren't gods to begin with, but what became gods has always been around.
I hope that made sense.

[thalassa]

Re: How do gods come to be?

Deities were created with the rest of the Universe when the Universe came into being. But their existence is dependent on belief and/or the sheer existence of what they *are*. The names and faces we give them are purely cultural and are a reflection of us.

[LiadanWillows]

Re: How do gods come to be?

Often I think God was created by man to control other men and gain social advancement...

But I do truly believe there is some divinity watching over us, influencing us. I do not know where it came from, I am just glad that it is there.

[Bjorn]

Re: How do gods come to be?

Gods were created by man to give them some sort of archetypal role model and to be cast in in their various mythologies.

As for The Great Spirit, there was no beginning and there is no end. Even before time there was mystery, animus, vitalism, aether, whatever. That is the Great One's realm, and there can be no creation or destruction of that energy, only transference and interference.

[Ula]

Re: How do gods come to be?

I recently read some shamanism books and felt I have finally answered this for myself. Sometimes it's hard to get the science and magic to work together in my head. The shamans in the books talked about Midgard not being Earth but an Earth like place they used to jump to other lands in that system. What if all god and their realms were places like Earth on different planes that for whatever reason we can interact with those beings and vice versa. Asgard, Olympus and Heaven are all real places somewhere that for whatever reason beings there can visit Earth. I sounds like alien theory and I guess it is but not in the sense of coming here on space ships. To me the gods are all legit beings but that's all UPG.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: How do gods come to be?

The Gods are what we make of them. Powerful, or powerless.

[Siloh]

Re: How do gods come to be?

If gods were created by something then they aren't really gods to begin with. Why would the created be more worthy of worship than the creator?

I both agree and disagree with you here, Dumuzi. I do agree that the archetypical idea of god as omnipotent and omnipresent is a requirement for a lot of people's idea of what a god is, and I think a lot of that sentiment arises from the idea of god as creator.


However, as someone who believes that the source of life is not an entity not sentient in the way often insisted by those believing in a creator god, I think god, as an idea, is actually a construction of the psyche, the same way a "broken heart" is a way for us to frame the literal heartache that results from love lost, for instance, and that such constructs can be given power or not given power, the same way that the economy is an idea given power by those who participate in it daily. Or, maybe even better, the way that math is a philosophical concept of logic that works perfectly because it was designed to work within its own limits. Math is highly applicable, but it is not "real." It is a construction of thought and logic that is also a tool in our existence.

Therefore, gods can be applicable tools in daily life just as math is while remaining a construction of ideas rather than a bonafied entity who created the Earth.

But also, the creation and not the creator is so often worshipped in human society it's not even funny. Today, many people will passionately argue that art and invention belongs to humanity, not its original creator, and on the other side as well, where the creator has every right to appropriate, alter, or restrict their creation/invention.

Do not mistake me. Ideas move mountains, topple regimes, and can alter our everyday perception of the world. And, of course, they cannot be slain. They are, for all intents and purposes, invulnerable, all-powerful, and can very well save your soul. That sounds like godliness to me.

[Medusa]

Re: How do gods come to be?

If gods were created by something then they aren't really gods to begin with. Why would the created be more worthy of worship than the creator?

I agree. I believe everything has a creator. Which means....even God. Which goes against the very idea of God. Which means...something is very false.

[Dumuzi]

Re: How do gods come to be?

How do they come to be? Who are they created by? Are they based on people that have existed?

If gods were created by something then they aren't really gods to begin with. Why would the created be more worthy of worship than the creator?

[Djnn]

Re: How do gods come to be?

I think God's are mans way of personifying the energy that is out there. Or the personifying of the many different aspects of one cosmic power that be. By personifying either of these, it becomes more tangible, more bendable, easier to work with. We can gain better focus through this as personified things are things the human mind can understand.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: How do gods come to be?

They came to be because we needed them. For me at least, Corbin's choice of the word "invented" seems too conscious...too aware.

LOL - yes, I should have said "created." invention is one of the later stages of creation.

[Dez]

Re: How do gods come to be?

They came to be because we needed them. For me at least, Corbin's choice of the word "invented" seems too conscious...too aware.

I think gods fill a niche, a need created by a particular society or represent needs and values. Often in modern times, what is being worshiped in that fashion isn't always recognized as a god either.