So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

What about a suicide cult, like Heaven's Gate?

Wouldn't that be a willing self sacrifice?

LoL Good name.
But, doesn't the word "sacrifice" mean that they're giving something up for the good of someone/something else? Suicide just sounds like they want to die- selfish. That's not sacrificing anything. I think taking your month's income and giving it to the needy is more of a sacrifice.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

What about a suicide cult, like Heaven's Gate?

Wouldn't that be a willing self sacrifice?

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

For me, it's along the same lines as any other form of legal consent. If you are, by the local laws, 'of age', considered competent and capable of making legal decisions for yourself, and you volunteer for being sacrificed to a God or an ideal (like say... a soldier making a contract with a military body...) or to make it rain or stop raining, then it's a willing sacrifice. Perfectly ok by me. You want to be killed in the name of whatever, you go for it. I think people should have the right to choose the means of their own deaths, as long as it doesn't place anyone else directly in harm's way. Sacrificing yourself to take out an enemy is probably bordering on even my broad ethical acceptance levels - suicide bombers aren't cool with me. Too much potential for collateral damage.

I see what you mean. But have you considered that (especially with religious groups), this "willing" sacrifice might be forced upon someone? I'm talking about brainwashing, people thinking they have to or something bad could happen, again I bring up metal handicaps, gullibility, and other forms of coercion. Because, honestly, a religious group that does human sacrifice is going to be trusted to be upstanding and moral? Trusted to exercise good judgment?

I agree with Al!ce when she says: "If someone is willing to be sacrificed they're probably depressed and even if they're not, what they need is (psychiatric) help."

And what exactly does anyone achieve by willingly "sacrificing" themselves anyhow? It seems to me like back-pedaling, going back to dark ages when ignorance reigned~ definitely no forward-thinking involved.

[Ophidia]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

And - which is more interesting, and more troubling - don't they force the people around them (when the bomb goes off) to be unwilling sacrifices to their "God"?

I think I mentioned suicide bombers specifically - it's ok to choose the time and manner of your own death, just don't take any unwilling passengers.

I'm also against coercion. Just like it's wrong to kidnap or buy a child or other person and sacrifice them, it's not ok to coerce people into agreeing to it. "Hey, little kid, if you lay down on this big square block and close your eyes, you'll get a Nintendo DS". A direct approach like this probably won't work with most adults, but I believe that everyone has a price. It's not fair to use that price against someone when it comes to sacrificing them. It's why I feel heavy recruiting campaigns in largely poor, minority neighborhoods are unethical. The various branches are being extremely exploitative by using hopes and dreams of a better future against these impressionable kids. Yeah, you'll get a great education, your resume will look fantastic, you'll be a hero - if your GPA is high enough to get you out of the infantry.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

Aren't suicide bombers willing human sacrifices - assuming that they do it "for their religion"?

And - which is more interesting, and more troubling - don't they force the people around them (when the bomb goes off) to be unwilling sacrifices to their "God"?

[Ophidia]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

But then you run into the problem of "Who's to say places like Africa deserve to die, whereas white middle-class America can live in comfort?" ...If someone I loved volunteered for any number of things, I would grieve, and I would move on. From my POV, having a loved one join the army to go to war is damn nearly the same as having them volunteer to kill themselves, and lots of husbands and wives and mothers and fathers deal with their loved ones going off to war. I'm not saying we should all jump up and sacrifice ourselves to some gods that may or may not even exist, but if someone, a zealot, say, is so firmly convinced that this is their way to salvation, or to their culture's salvation, well, fuck. Just go for it, then. What if they wanted to do it so badly it made them terribly upset? Unreasonable, miserable, and unconsolable? A person's gotta do what a person's gotta do.

This, so much this!

Why is Perze excused from her beliefs because of depression, but I seem not to be? Is it more acceptable for someone with a psychological issue to think these thoughts than it is for someone without depression?

I don't get the impression that I'm being somehow excused for believing as I do. I think what Alice is saying is that she feels that if a person wishes to sacrifice their life (or commit suicide, however you want to put it) that person must have a mental disorder and there can be no other valid reason. I am merely 'proof'. Of course I believe people have the right to choose the time and manner of their own death - I have a mental/emotional disorder.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

I fully understand your desire for there to be less people on the planet but that doesn't mean that we should kill all the volunteers. What if someone you loved volunteered to die would you encourage them or try to talk them out of it? People who volunteer for such things are usually crazy rather than stupid (or in the case of imaginary Billy poorly educated and misguided). If you want less people on the planet there are various approaches you can take, for example if we stopped providing places like Africa with food and medication and instead only provided them with contraceptives and education.

But then you run into the problem of "Who's to say places like Africa deserve to die, whereas white middle-class America can live in comfort?" ...If someone I loved volunteered for any number of things, I would grieve, and I would move on. From my POV, having a loved one join the army to go to war is damn nearly the same as having them volunteer to kill themselves, and lots of husbands and wives and mothers and fathers deal with their loved ones going off to war. I'm not saying we should all jump up and sacrifice ourselves to some gods that may or may not even exist, but if someone, a zealot, say, is so firmly convinced that this is their way to salvation, or to their culture's salvation, well, fuck. Just go for it, then. What if they wanted to do it so badly it made them terribly upset? Unreasonable, miserable, and unconsolable? A person's gotta do what a person's gotta do.

Why is Perze excused from her beliefs because of depression, but I seem not to be? Is it more acceptable for someone with a psychological issue to think these thoughts than it is for someone without depression?

[AL!CE]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

To bring another side to this coin, I agreed with Perze, and I haven't got a depression issue, or bipolarity, or any kind of mental issues whatsoever. I'm not suicidal, and I generally love life, and all the things that live on earth.

Just like I am pro-choice, and I am pro-capital punishment, I'm pro for willingness. What a person decides to do with their life is their concern, and their concern only. To give a slightly racist example, if Billy the Hawaiian decides that the only way to appease the volcano gods is to be sacrificed, well, little Billy can go for it. Does it actually appease the volcano gods? That's a different question entirely, and from the viewpoint of a geologist, I might have a different answer than some.

But he willingly did it. Gets one more stupid fuck off the planet, and no harm done. Besides, it's never nice to be rude to the gods, and if they demand a sacrifice, well...

I fully understand your desire for there to be less people on the planet but that doesn't mean that we should kill all the volunteers. What if someone you loved volunteered to die would you encourage them or try to talk them out of it? People who volunteer for such things are usually crazy rather than stupid (or in the case of imaginary Billy poorly educated and misguided). If you want less people on the planet there are various approaches you can take, for example if we stopped providing places like Africa with food and medication and instead only provided them with contraceptives and education.

[Djnn]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

I agree in the instance of the practice being revived and for greed no less... It is wrong on so many levels. More than just for the death of children or others.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

A lot of cultures who participate in this practice today have many practices that we would find... Immorral and hanus in nature. To these people its their reality its their world. So for them its a way of life. So in this sense I can't say we have any right to disrupt their way of life. I don't agree with it. I'd never participate or allow participants to be around me. But when you look at it from a anthropological point of view... You can't be biased at all.
If a culture infringes onto another to do this practice I'm not against defending the life....
It's a very... Touchy topic that's for sure. I guess it goes back to it being okay for the willing. If they participate in the culture they are willing even if they don't want to be sacrificed themself.

I find it disgusting and out dated personally

This is all lovely sounding in theory, but in the context of the article, it is quite clear that this was a dead practice re4vived only within the last couple of years (a couple of years ago...) It isn't cultural and the only ones who seem to want to participate are the witch doctors and the rich A**h**** paying for it. there are a few cases of parents selling their children, but not for their religion, but because they are poor...
Now I am allfor revival, and history and all of that, but this is unacceptable within the constraints of law even. It is illegal in their country, but no one is arresting these people! If one of them moved into the U.S. and paid a man to kidnap, mutilate, and murder someone elses child, would it still be ok? It is this man's culture, would'nt we be infringing on his rights to practice his religion? F*** NO! Children, whether you like them or not, whether they belong to you or not have basic human rights too! They are Children for goodness sake, How can they even remotely knowingly consent?
These people arent allowed to go out and kill elephants for ivory anymore, why can they go out and kill children? It makes no sense, these are not un touched tribal cultures doing this, they know what they are doing, they know it is wrong, and they are still doing it for money, if that is not sick and depraved, what do they need to do to qualify as such?

I've seen dumber reasons for military strikes....

[Djnn]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

A lot of cultures who participate in this practice today have many practices that we would find... Immorral and hanus in nature. To these people its their reality its their world. So for them its a way of life. So in this sense I can't say we have any right to disrupt their way of life. I don't agree with it. I'd never participate or allow participants to be around me. But when you look at it from a anthropological point of view... You can't be biased at all.
If a culture infringes onto another to do this practice I'm not against defending the life....
It's a very... Touchy topic that's for sure. I guess it goes back to it being okay for the willing. If they participate in the culture they are willing even if they don't want to be sacrificed themself.

I find it disgusting and out dated personally

[Corvus]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

It dosen't really surprise me that this is occurring. People have and still receive payment for all sorts of works of magic, good and bad. People are shallow and greedy enough to kill people for normal reasons. However someone would pay someone to kill someone to bring money and luck to them? that's vile and evil and wrong. It disgusts me completely. I can only hope there's some spirit/deity/karmic backlash coming for them. These witch doctors are proud and boastful of their murder and abduction of unwilling children.
Just so disgusting.

[Sarkana night]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

Willing human sacrifice is fine in my book.

Unwilling human sacrifice is murder.

I agree with this.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

I think you just proved my point.

To bring another side to this coin, I agreed with Perze, and I haven't got a depression issue, or bipolarity, or any kind of mental issues whatsoever. I'm not suicidal, and I generally love life, and all the things that live on earth.

Just like I am pro-choice, and I am pro-capital punishment, I'm pro for willingness. What a person decides to do with their life is their concern, and their concern only. To give a slightly racist example, if Billy the Hawaiian decides that the only way to appease the volcano gods is to be sacrificed, well, little Billy can go for it. Does it actually appease the volcano gods? That's a different question entirely, and from the viewpoint of a geologist, I might have a different answer than some.

But he willingly did it. Gets one more stupid fuck off the planet, and no harm done. Besides, it's never nice to be rude to the gods, and if they demand a sacrifice, well...

[AL!CE]

Re: So... how do you feel about human sacrifice?

IMHO - to die for a god is stupid. To kill for a god is vile.

What willing adults do to each other is of no concern of mine - except to say that I think it's stupid.

What people do to children, though, does concern me. The murder of a child is always murder, even when done for stupid and/or vile reasons.


Let's sacrifice the kitties instead...

No the Goddess likes Cats more than Babies. That's why they appear more often on Google. She also likes porn, yup yup. Or maybe that's the God.