How do I tell the Difference?

[Kahlenda]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

i agree it is very difficult to never ever harm anything or anyone...if you take the example that was given to me for instance. lets say i want to do a spell to get a little bigger cash flow ..you don't know how you will end up getting that money...someone could die and i could inherit that money...or someone else could loose a hundred dollar bill and i could find it...but do i know if that was that persons last money to buy groceries for their family....this is honestly what confuses me the most!! with the best intention spell i can literally come up with something that could go wrong...

this is where balance comes into it all, its about balancing these's energies, becauses "nothing comes from nothing", like we discussed on that other thread a healing spell technically cause;s me harm, because the "bad energy has to go somewhere" or "the good energy has to be paid for" the uuniverse is all about balance

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i try to balance the energy to cause the least amount of harm

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

Thank you - with regard to the three fold law, I was brought up in a family of witches (and all they did was hex!) and their maxim was 'Wishes and curses are like old hens, they always come home to roost.'

I have to hold my hand up and say that yes, I have been known to perform hexes, but this is very rare and usually when I am at my wits' end about bringing someone to some sort of justice. I've never been a great fan of 'harming none' not because I want to harm people, but because it is extremely difficult to put into practice. I think that's probably why I describe myself as a witch rather than a wiccan.

i agree it is very difficult to never ever harm anything or anyone...if you take the example that was given to me for instance. lets say i want to do a spell to get a little bigger cash flow ..you don't know how you will end up getting that money...someone could die and i could inherit that money...or someone else could loose a hundred dollar bill and i could find it...but do i know if that was that persons last money to buy groceries for their family....this is honestly what confuses me the most!! with the best intention spell i can literally come up with something that could go wrong...

[anunitu]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

Magic carpet bombing indeed Mask...I think I might steal that line...

[MaskedOne]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

I don't generally hex. I don't have spectacular moral qualms with hexes under specific conditions (namely to smack down a determined agressor) but altering my defenses into their less polite aspect normally seems to be enough to handle that for me and I prefer to use modified defenses first.

I do take issue with imprecise or casual hexing. If you're gonna throw hexes then you should have a d*** good idea of where they're going and good reason to inflict that harm. Smacking down an agressor is one thing. Just make sure to avoid smacking down the agressor's wife, two kids and dog when delivering the smack down. Sorcery provides precise options. Magical carpet bombing is bad form.

[chris1987]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

Even though I follow the harm none rule, I also take it with a grain of salt since I do think it's impossible to not harm anyone or anything ever. So I say to myself try not to harm any one intentionally. And I don't disagree with hexes at all when you are at your wits end and want to bring about some justice (I have been very tempted to at times and I won't say I will never hex anyone because eventually if I believe there is just cause for it I probably will)

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

This is also what I believe. What you put out is what you get back and I also tend to follow the three-fold law and harm no one. In my opinion, there is no bad magic or good per say but it is your intentions that dictate what happens. In the end as Tylluan said use common sense and listen to your heart it's usually pretty good at letting you know which way to go

Thank you - with regard to the three fold law, I was brought up in a family of witches (and all they did was hex!) and their maxim was 'Wishes and curses are like old hens, they always come home to roost.'

I have to hold my hand up and say that yes, I have been known to perform hexes, but this is very rare and usually when I am at my wits' end about bringing someone to some sort of justice. I've never been a great fan of 'harming none' not because I want to harm people, but because it is extremely difficult to put into practice. I think that's probably why I describe myself as a witch rather than a wiccan.

[chris1987]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

One of the most useful adages I use on my own path is 'As above, so below.' It comes from something called the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus.

I personally don't accept there is good and bad magic, only good and bad intentions. And this is much the same as in life. We may do an apparently good turn with a bad intention - in which case it's not really a good turn at all. And sometimes a bad turn may does us a favour in the long run, but the fact that it was originally done with a bad intention doesn't cancel out the ultimate effect.

So - when you're deciding whether or not to do magic, my own advice is to cultivate common sense. Ask yourself whether this would be a good thing to do for (or to) another person, in everyday life. Just forget the magic, the candles, the incense and what have you. Concentrate on the task in hand. If it's intended as a good turn, and there is no underlying subtext, then fine, it can be classed as benign.

Now of course, whether we should do magic without the express permission of the person we're trying to help is entirely a diferent matter (and one that has got me into a few arguments down the years ). Again, I would say you should use some common sense. Apply your everyday values and judgement.

And never, ever, forget the laws of unintended consequences!

This is also what I believe. What you put out is what you get back and I also tend to follow the three-fold law and harm no one. In my opinion, there is no bad magic or good per say but it is your intentions that dictate what happens. In the end as Tylluan said use common sense and listen to your heart it's usually pretty good at letting you know which way to go

[SPhoenix]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

This is just me, so take it or leave it.

I realized at some point that I had one thing about "god" that I knew to be absolute fact. A single spiritual certainty that was "beyond the shadow of a doubt" for me. For ME, that spiritual certainty is "God is love". Your spiritual certainty might be different, such as "God is Balance". Or "Humans are Gods". Perhaps it's that "There are many Gods"; I don't know. But I suspect that, underneath everything else, above and beyond all the trappings, there is SOMETHING that is an absolute spiritual certainty for you.

This is your internal spiritual compass. It's the thing that you can trust above all else... it's your divine certainty.

When someone tells me that something is true of "god" or the higher power or powers, it has to pass one test, and only one test. "Is it loving?"

If someone says that god killed his own son because he hated (but wanted to love) everyone else... I ask myself, "Is that loving?" Now, personally, because I know that god is loving, I know It created me with the basic inherent intelligence to figure out if something is loving. PLUS, I know that It is BETTER than me. So if "lowly" me can figure out that this is absolutely not remotely loving... so can god.

So to know what's "right and wrong", I suggest figuring out what your spiritual compass is. Whether it's "god is ultimately loving" or not doesn't matter. You have some inherent, deep-seated knowledge of the supreme being or beings. That absolute certainty is what has been given to you in this lifetime to help you sort your way through life. Trust that, whatever the ultimate being in the universe is (or how many), It or they have given you a certainty.

It is the foundation for all of your knowledge and learning. I can reject anything I am taught about It that is not loving. Sometimes I'm not certain, sometimes people make it ambiguous or give arguments that can make me uncertain as to whether a specific thing is loving. So I ask and I focus and I think about it. I accept nothing that I can't immediately identify as loving.

I may not know if an action is loving or not. But my certainty that GOD IS LOVE never, ever flags at all. It is the one thing I can count on. So if I can't figure out if it's loving or not (because tough love is sometimes an uncertain area), I don't accept it or reject it. I take it under advisement.

But I don't ever have to wonder about the ultimate nature of the Great Intelligence. Ever.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

One of the most useful adages I use on my own path is 'As above, so below.' It comes from something called the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus.

I personally don't accept there is good and bad magic, only good and bad intentions. And this is much the same as in life. We may do an apparently good turn with a bad intention - in which case it's not really a good turn at all. And sometimes a bad turn may does us a favour in the long run, but the fact that it was originally done with a bad intention doesn't cancel out the ultimate effect.

So - when you're deciding whether or not to do magic, my own advice is to cultivate common sense. Ask yourself whether this would be a good thing to do for (or to) another person, in everyday life. Just forget the magic, the candles, the incense and what have you. Concentrate on the task in hand. If it's intended as a good turn, and there is no underlying subtext, then fine, it can be classed as benign.

Now of course, whether we should do magic without the express permission of the person we're trying to help is entirely a diferent matter (and one that has got me into a few arguments down the years ). Again, I would say you should use some common sense. Apply your everyday values and judgement.

And never, ever, forget the laws of unintended consequences!

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

I really like the sword metaphor. its always easier to understand things with a good metaphor. i think why people converting from monotheistic faiths still think they need to do the whole good thing bad thing is because of the fear that is jammed down their throats. which is what i dislike so much. i don't believe in forcing people (manipulatively i may add) into following my beliefs/opinion about religion.
at first it is very hard to break the "stigma"...

[Shawn Cameron]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

^ Very good advice and the most important to remember. Ethics are important but they are also personal, forged from experience and meditation. It is a common stage in most people converting from monotheistic faiths, (which are very black/white evil/good ect.) to try and apply the same principles to other religions. (Like why so many consider Loki “evil” despite the depth of his character, our gods are not one dimensional.)

My personal opinion on magick is that it is a tool, and because I work best with analogies I compare it to a sword. A sword can be used to defend, attack, or even cut fire wood, it is all about the wielder not the blade, some may be designed to be better at one then another but they can all be whichever the swordsman wants/needs.

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

Nice meeting you too! i totally agree. I had already made up my mind about those things before researching anything that had to do with Paganism/Witchcraft etc etc...I've always had the same opinion just never fit in with the rest of my family (Christians and Catholics, what a mix eh lol)...as a teenager literally thought i was the only person who was like me...then i found Wicca...and then paganism in general...and then the rest.
if i wouldn't have already had a view of nature, divines, life/death, reincarnation etc. i would now be majorly confused and overwhelmed.

[Kahlenda]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

I agree whole heartedly, really good piece of info corvus. the world life and the universe never stands still so neither can our beliefs they must be a "moving rock within the chaotic rapids that are life"

[Corvus]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

wow lots of answers and very wise opinions, they all have in common that many people of man different religions think that there really is no "good" and "evil"
that one cannot simply throw magic into one of those boxes. i have read this allot now, also in books and on webpages. This is what I wanted to believe,
yet was a little "afraid", more cautious of doing something wrong.
Thank You all so much for the insight!! And thanks for the welcomes