Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

[Dez]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

This actually reminds me of a quote someone shared in reddit a while back. It keeps popping back into my head as a mantra for dealing with my family. To paraphrase:

"Arguing with a dogmatic believer is like trying to play chess with a chicken. No matter what you do, the chicken's going to crap all over the board and then strut around like it won."

[anunitu]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

I just watched South park and they kinda hit this AND the gov spying on you in one funny thing with Butters. Catch it if you can.

[redschwegler]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

In the Norse mythos there are stories of thor protecting mortals, odhinn gave us wisdom and poetry (creativity) and at ragnarok they will all die to save us from annihilation, but thats not yet happened. idk if any of that would be useful to you. or you can counter that though jesus was crucified, he didnt have much choice, and tho he purportedy died for humanities sins, they hold the belief that babies who die before being baptised are send to limbo. which sounds like the work of a cruel god to me.

[Wonderland]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

I think it is, in part, a matter of how open the dialogue is. Someone engaging in a conversion (or deconversion) attempt does not want an open dialogue. In fact, s/he doesn't want a dialogue at all. So no point in talking about it. Might as well shut down the de/conversion attempt and enjoy the silence.

And then, sometimes your religion is your own danged business and it's no good to talk about it at all.

On rare occasions, I have had conversations with Christians and agnostics that were intended to be open dialogues. There was nothing at stake in the sense of one of us having to prove the "merit" of our beliefs. These kinds of talks are great. In fact, the more we have the better off we all are as a species.

I agree with you completely.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Honestly, if someone asked me "what have your gods done for you?" I'd give them a raised eyebrow and ask, "Are your reasons for believing that mercenary?"

While there are plenty of things my gods have done for me (and probably a lot more I never even noticed) I don't believe because I think I'll be given things. And the very idea really rubs me the wrong way.

[Ophidia]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

A number of people would tell you not to bother but I have to ask one question. Is your own faith not worth speaking of? If you are out to try and convert or change the person your speaking to then I tend to agree it's a waste of time and seems more based upon revenge or something similar. Yet if it is more about telling about your own faith regardless of whether it changes another then how can it be wrong for to speak on it requires one to understand it. To have had one ponder deeply about it and how it all relates.

Inversely many times we discover the depths to our own beliefs and faiths by trying to make ourselves knowledgeable of others beliefs and faiths. In many ways that is the essence of being eclectic. Not just to understand the surface action but to understand the greater and often more subtle social / moral and ethical things associated with it. You then can speak on nearly every aspect from your spiritual / religious beliefs in compare and contrast to another's.

This is more along the lines of my thought process. I don't proselytize or try to prove that somehow my religion/faith/belief system is better than theirs, but I do teach.

And if I can't teach someone, I will very much make the person regret striking up a conversation with me in the first place. It's what they deserve for talking to strangers, anyway

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Funny... just today I met with a Christian on my University's campus who was preaching "Jesus" to everyone, and I could tell he was fairly fundamentalist as well. I wanted to avoid him, but I had already been heading down the walkway to where he was preaching (with no one listening I might add), and as I walked up to him, I thought for a moment.

Although I was pagan, and had no great love of Christianity, was it right for me to completely ignore what he said and be just as stone-walled as he was? Did it make me better to ignore him? Instead, I let him approach me and we talked for about ten minutes about Christianity and Jesus (I just acted the part of a "meh" Christian, didn't feel like mentioning the Pagan bit), and what really surprised me was the soulfulness of what he told me. I could tell that deep down, he felt what he was saying was really going to save people, and put them somewhere happy for eternity. To him, he was doing the best absolute good he could do, and although I didn't agree with him, I respected him for that.

Now, that's where I draw it in with this thread. Although I respect him for his belief that he is doing "good" I am fairly sure had I made my position clear, the happy (and might I add one-sided on his part) discussion would have turned quite a bit more ugly. I simply acted as though I was considering what he said, and I was just happy I didn't happen to have my "LGBT" pride button on my backpack yet, so as to avoid that fun discussion.

It just makes me wonder... how can people who genuinely want to see others be happy, use very cruel mind-sets to put that forward? I mean, it isn't "convert or die" anymore, but I'm sure if a few laws were different, it very well could have been along those lines.

[jcaternolo]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Look up Prometheus. He didn't die for humanity but I expect that most humans would beg for death after a day or two of the punishment that was laid on him by Zeus.

IIRC he had his guts torn out by a giant bird then revived, and doomed to repeat the process, for bringing humans fire.

[Satu]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

A number of people would tell you not to bother but I have to ask one question. Is your own faith not worth speaking of? If you are out to try and convert or change the person your speaking to then I tend to agree it's a waste of time and seems more based upon revenge or something similar. Yet if it is more about telling about your own faith regardless of whether it changes another then how can it be wrong for to speak on it requires one to understand it. To have had one ponder deeply about it and how it all relates.

I think it is, in part, a matter of how open the dialogue is. Someone engaging in a conversion (or deconversion) attempt does not want an open dialogue. In fact, s/he doesn't want a dialogue at all. So no point in talking about it. Might as well shut down the de/conversion attempt and enjoy the silence.

And then, sometimes your religion is your own danged business and it's no good to talk about it at all.

On rare occasions, I have had conversations with Christians and agnostics that were intended to be open dialogues. There was nothing at stake in the sense of one of us having to prove the "merit" of our beliefs. These kinds of talks are great. In fact, the more we have the better off we all are as a species.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Sometimes you just want to sit and wait for your bus in peace.

Oh I agree but once they speak and you acknowledge them that goes out the window.

Personally it doesn't bother me unless it's one of those people who talk simply to hear their own voices. Like some demented bunny they just keep going and going and going no matter how much you ignore them or tell them your not interested in talking. But I find those type seldom if ever are trying to convert or save you they just like the noise of their own voices.

[Medusa]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

A number of people would tell you not to bother but I have to ask one question. Is your own faith not worth speaking of? If you are out to try and convert or change the person your speaking to then I tend to agree it's a waste of time and seems more based upon revenge or something similar. Yet if it is more about telling about your own faith regardless of whether it changes another then how can it be wrong for to speak on it requires one to understand it. To have had one ponder deeply about it and how it all relates.

Inversely many times we discover the depths to our own beliefs and faiths by trying to make ourselves knowledgeable of others beliefs and faiths. In many ways that is the essence of being eclectic. Not just to understand the surface action but to understand the greater and often more subtle social / moral and ethical things associated with it. You then can speak on nearly every aspect from your spiritual / religious beliefs in compare and contrast to another's.

Sometimes you just want to sit and wait for your bus in peace.

[Optimistic discord]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Yesterday, I had someone sit down near me while I was waiting for the bus. She says "isn't this a great day that God allowed us to have?" and I was thinking "oh great, she's gonna try to convert me". Sure enough, she asked if I believe in Jesus. I told her I don't worship Yahweh anymore and when she asked why, I told her there's just too many contradictions in the Bible. Anyway, long story short, I told her I believe in Artemis, and she told me that the ancient Greeks actually were converted to Christianity, including many of their famous scholars and philosophers.

Now, I don't remember reading about Aristotle or Plato being converted to Christianity, and if these famous people were really converted, wouldn't there be something in history about it? I told her just because the Bible says it it doesn't make it true.

Also, she asked me what have the other gods done, and told me that Jesus died on the cross. Is there anything the other gods have done that's similar to what Jesus did? I know Shiva took a great poison onto himself (or maybe a wound that would've been deadly for humans) to prevent destruction of a city or something, but that's all I know.

I just know that I'll end up running into her again at some point since she had to use the same bus as me, and I could really use some ammo so I can at least convince her there's some merit to my faith, because in her eyes I'm a poor soul in need of saving.

Although you do not have to engage in any debate, it is always nice to have some information.
From a "Heathenish" perspective:

Things the gods have done for us:

Created the world.
Created mankind from two trees.
Maintained a tradition of having female deities and a more equal role for woman that christianity did

Generally most pantheons/gods tend to do the same thing. Most faiths have a sacrifice at some point (Loki sacrificed everything in his role as a servant of the fates and counterbalance to Odins plots...Yes that is a Pro-Loki interpretation of events).

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

A number of people would tell you not to bother but I have to ask one question. Is your own faith not worth speaking of? If you are out to try and convert or change the person your speaking to then I tend to agree it's a waste of time and seems more based upon revenge or something similar. Yet if it is more about telling about your own faith regardless of whether it changes another then how can it be wrong for to speak on it requires one to understand it. To have had one ponder deeply about it and how it all relates.

Inversely many times we discover the depths to our own beliefs and faiths by trying to make ourselves knowledgeable of others beliefs and faiths. In many ways that is the essence of being eclectic. Not just to understand the surface action but to understand the greater and often more subtle social / moral and ethical things associated with it. You then can speak on nearly every aspect from your spiritual / religious beliefs in compare and contrast to another's.

[Gleb]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

I agree with Satu- don't get into it.

[Satu]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

You don't owe this person anything. Not a single, solitary thing. And from experience, trying to prove the "merit" of your religion is useless. (My experiences are with atheists, but the same idea applies here.) Say something like, "I don't want to discuss this." and get snippier if she doesn't let up.

Seriously, don't engage in this foolery. You will. Not. Win.