migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Also climate, and resource issues...look at the so-called Little Ice Age and its affect on history in Europe.

Good point!

[thalassa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Plus, your account of history here completely ignores the effects of international events and involvement, such as the Crusades, the World Wars, American interventionism, etc.

Also climate, and resource issues...look at the so-called Little Ice Age and its affect on history in Europe.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

All of this banter is great but look at history for a moment and remember that the middle east has been at war with itself over religious ideology for 2000 years.

Europe was also at war with itself for thousands of years, and it often came down to religious ideology (the 30 year's war, for example, which was one of the bloodiest conflicts that ever happened here prior to the 20th Century). Plus, your account of history here completely ignores the effects of international events and involvement, such as the Crusades, the World Wars, American interventionism, etc.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I hear more about the veterans who are homeless or need medical services as the reason. While the numbers vary it seems to hover somewhere around 50,000 vets who are on the streets, many with medical issues. We should be taking care of our own before we worry about others is the general perception I get. Can't say I disagree with it either you look to what extent the government and other agencies go to in order to make things better for the refugee's while those who served have to wait for service and aid or are ignored all together.

Edited to remove double post

I will say this, there has been a huge push against veteran homelessness and people are getting taken care of in record numbers. For instance New Orleans has effectively ended veteran homelessness. New York City's veteran homelessness is also at a record low and on track tonso what NOLA did. There are literally dozens of programs from the VA to help homeless veterans and it is ending fast.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

All of this banter is great but look at history for a moment and remember that the middle east has been at war with itself over religious ideology for 2000 years. These people are "comfortable" with war the same way that a person in an abusive relationship is "comfortable". It is what they know and it gives them their sense of self esteem. Most of the refugees want a safe place to stay until they can go home again. They want to keep their religious rulers and the laws that they grew up with. They don't want to leave at all they just want a refuge.

The peoples of this area have been refugees for millennium and will likely continue to be for the foreseeable future.The only way to stop the war is the same thing that an addict must go through. They have to lose everything important and decide to make a change. They have to work at changing their reality - no one can do that for them. It means nothing unless it is earned.

I'm really not against housing refugees but I am against enabling the warring of these peoples. Just because an addict is in withdrawal you don't make them feel better with a shot of Morphine. It is something that they must go through to get better.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I hear more about the veterans who are homeless or need medical services as the reason. While the numbers vary it seems to hover somewhere around 50,000 vets who are on the streets, many with medical issues. We should be taking care of our own before we worry about others is the general perception I get. Can't say I disagree with it either you look to what extent the government and other agencies go to in order to make things better for the refugee's while those who served have to wait for service and aid or are ignored all together.

Edited to remove double post

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I think the issue is that there is this concept that the newcomers are getting "more" from the government and other sources than those who have been here all along. It's the whole argument that people get with their cable companies. "Why do these new customers get all these bonus channels and lower rates, when I've been your customer for 20 years and I don't get anything extra?!?" I feel part of it has to do with inflation, classification of what qualifies as the poverty line, and the fact that they have not changed equally over the years.

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

For true B. De. My Father came here and joined the army because he wanted to be an American....because he did that,I was born an American(he retained his French culture) and also took American ways as well.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean,we have Chinese food,Italian food,Mexican food,and some ethnic food that became American southern food. Jewish food and Arab food,Greek food and we made Pizza out OWN....

[B. de Corbin]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Once again, I don't care about terminology - you make too much of it, IMHO.

The idea is: We are here. We mix. Enjoy it.

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

For me people are Italian-American,African-American,and so on,BUT the American part is your Country NOW..love your old country,BUT by becoming a citizen you pledge your self to America.


Remember people line up to get to call themselves AMERICAN...

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

DanieMarie, I was also taught that America is a "melting pot."

But something has happened recently that is disconcerting - when the economy got rough, the politics of Xenophobia sprouted like dandelions. Or, when the power of long standing institutions (such as, but not limited to, "Christianity") are challenged, some folks retreated into cultural hermeticism.

It is so unfortunate - we are mostly all immigrants and refugees here.

See, that's the difference though. We always preferred to think of ourselves as a "mosaic, NOT a melting pot". We weren't supposed to be a country that cultures came together and assimilated. We thought of ourselves as a patchwork of different cultures living in the same place.

That's why I'm so upset by recent events in Canada and the country's stance on immigrants (which isn't just limited to the government). It kind of goes against everything I learned about our national identity.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

DanieMarie, I was also taught that America is a "melting pot."

But something has happened recently that is disconcerting - when the economy got rough, the politics of Xenophobia sprouted like dandelions. Or, when the power of long standing institutions (such as, but not limited to, "Christianity") are challenged, some folks retreated into cultural hermeticism.

It is so unfortunate - we are mostly all immigrants and refugees here.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I dunno...I can't comment on the US, because this is one of the areas where Canada and the US has been really culturally different for decades. But, when I grew up in Canada, we were always told that we were a "mosaic" and not a "melting pot." We were always taught to celebrate our culture and our differences, because the mix is part of what made us collectively Canadian. It wasn't always that way (before the 60s, Canada was VERY MUCH a melting pot), but the 60s and 70s saw a lot of changes in Canadian national identity, which were what a lot of us grew up with.

But now, it's like a subset of the population wants to change that. We have a prime minister who uses terms like "Old Stock Canadian" (what does that even mean?) and people beating up women wearing head coverings in the streets. And even worse, the country that welcomed refugees from Bosnia, Africa, and other places for years is suddenly too scared to take in people from the Middle East. So if I'm critical of the attitude, a lot of it is coming from my sheer frustration at this situation.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

This is why history is so important. And not the watered down crud they put in my kids school books. Our current world events are more similar than not to the anti-papist scare of the Know Nothing party.

Truthfully do not recall the Know Nothing Party history but this whole unfolding situation reminds me of the Irish immigration into America and how they were met and resisted.

[thalassa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

it still makes it seem as if the American presence is being forsaken to appease the so called groups that want presence in America.

This is why history is so important. And not the watered down crud they put in my kids school books. Our current world events are more similar than not to the anti-papist scare of the Know Nothing party.