Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

[Hawkfeathers]

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-bundy-family-reportedly-joins-militia-in-occupation-of-federal-building/

His family/cohorts are occupying the Federal building now, as a Militia group.

[TxanGoddess]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

This is a bad deal. The only way something like this can possibly end well is due to a failure of will on the part of the "militia" and I don't see that happening. I don't see how the government has any winning moves at all in this situation ... it's like arguing with a heavy conspiracy theorist ... any response you make only strengthens their side.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

We will fight the government by occupying the offices for a Wildlife Refuge. Makes sense.

Edit: It's amazing the the difference in response between white people rioting and black people rioting.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

It's amazing the the difference in response between white people rioting and black people rioting.

I was just reading some comments to that effect elsewhere - like if they were black they'd have been shot by now, but they let the white ammosexuals go on. I never understood Bundy's point in the first place. The land is not his. I run into a much smaller version of this here in the Ozarks - people let their cats/dogs go onto other people's property like it's nothing. There's a lot of bluster about rights and freedoms, but it's all just "me, me, me".

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

The only "Federal" land is Washington DC and military reservations. All other "federal" land is owned by the people and the federal government is "holding that land in trust" for the people. For generations the Bundy family has grazed livestock on that property and now they want to tax it's use?
It is called "Open Range" and even private property can be classified as open range. The only way to prevent the open range use is to fence it off and if there is a right of way in place there is nothing you can do, even if you own the property.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

National park land is "in trust" but there are still regulations, protected wildlife areas, etc. You can't just go there and mess it up. I don't know all the laws & loopholes for all that stuff - but the "been using it for generations" holds no water. If someone cuts through my yard, that doesn't make it not trespassing, just because the last owner didn't mind, or whatever. Now if Mr. Bundy or his great grandfather has or had something in writing allowing their cattle to be there, that's one thing.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison

These are the people that the militia is protesting about. Everyone protesting is a complete idiot.

Good thing the armed militia that forecfully took over a federally owned building is white and most likely won't face charges.

[thalassa]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

The only "Federal" land is Washington DC and military reservations. All other "federal" land is owned by the people and the federal government is "holding that land in trust" for the people. For generations the Bundy family has grazed livestock on that property and now they want to tax it's use?
It is called "Open Range" and even private property can be classified as open range. The only way to prevent the open range use is to fence it off and if there is a right of way in place there is nothing you can do, even if you own the property.

Grazing fees are not new.

When I dont pay my electric bill, it gets shut off too.

And goodness knows they'd not let that rack up over a million dollars before they'd dock my paycheck.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

We will fight the government by occupying the offices for a Wildlife Refuge. Makes sense.

Edit: It's amazing the the difference in response between white people rioting and black people rioting.

Those were my thoughts. Along with the fact that this would never, ever happen here.

- - - Updated - - -

National park land is "in trust" but there are still regulations, protected wildlife areas, etc. You can't just go there and mess it up. I don't know all the laws & loopholes for all that stuff - but the "been using it for generations" holds no water. If someone cuts through my yard, that doesn't make it not trespassing, just because the last owner didn't mind, or whatever. Now if Mr. Bundy or his great grandfather has or had something in writing allowing their cattle to be there, that's one thing.

Yep, and those fees for their use go back into programs such as conservation and land management. The right to use something and the right to use it for nothing are two different things.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

Edit: It's amazing the the difference in response between white people rioting and black people rioting.

Were they "rioting"? I understood that there has been no fighting or property damage, and things were, so far, peaceful.

If I've been misinformed, I welcome correction. If not, I'd remind people that words have actual definitions, and "riot" requires violence.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know all the laws & loopholes for all that stuff - but the "been using it for generations" holds no water.

It depends on local laws. Where I live, you can't close off a right-of-way even if it is entirely on your own property, and generations long use is the definition of a right-of-way. I actually have a document from a guy I let use my access to get into his property to prove that he does not have right-of-way, just in case he ever sells the land to somebody I don't want cutting across my land.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

Ah, it must be only rioting when black people act out. Sorry, about that. These poor, heavily armed white folk who siezed a tax payer owned building are peaceful. I mean, they have only said they wouldn't mind escalating to violence. Peaceful protesters all the way. Real heros protecting the rights of arsonists.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

Were they "rioting"? I understood that there has been no fighting or property damage, and things were, so far, peaceful.

If I've been misinformed, I welcome correction. If not, I'd remind people that words have actual definitions, and "riot" requires violence. ..

This is one aspect that is really being underplayed in this comparison of black and white and how the authorities would respond. Many times the militia groups hole up in some remote area and have a stand off. Seldom are other people actually being threatened by their actions or presence. Yet when black riots go down they often seem to be in heavily populated areas, results in lots of destruction and property losses and involve crowd issues. Quite a bit of difference in the two groups and the perception of threat each imposes upon the public and disturbances.

Even if one only considers the singular incidents where shots are fired. Again many militia incidents take place in remote or semi-unpopulated areas while many black situations have occurred in populated areas where even a singular person with a gun is a potential threat to many people.

Sadly I think the militia groups also tend to have some level of sympathy from the public that the riots do not ever gain. Especially in the sense of a mistrust towards an interfering governmental system acting upon personal rights.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

Ah, it must be only rioting when black people act out. Sorry, about that.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

Hey, man thanks for that definition and it's support that these Y'allqueadas are indeed rioters. We have to prove to the world that us whiteys can indeed riot with the best of them and not just after sporting events.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Remember Cliven Bundy, the rancher with animals grazing on Federal land?

This is one aspect that is really being underplayed in this comparison of black and white and how the authorities would respond. Many times the militia groups hole up in some remote area and have a stand off. Seldom are other people actually being threatened by their actions or presence. Yet when black riots go down they often seem to be in heavily populated areas, results in lots of destruction and property losses and involve crowd issues. Quite a bit of difference in the two groups and the perception of threat each imposes upon the public and disturbances.

Even if one only considers the singular incidents where shots are fired. Again many militia incidents take place in remote or semi-unpopulated areas while many black situations have occurred in populated areas where even a singular person with a gun is a potential threat to many people.

Sadly I think the militia groups also tend to have some level of sympathy from the public that the riots do not ever gain. Especially in the sense of a mistrust towards an interfering governmental system acting upon personal rights.

Maybe it's because people who aren't in the military don't have those kinds of weapons here, but if something like that happened here, it would be a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE issue. It wouldn't matter if they hurt anyone or not....

That's not to say that nothing bad ever happens here or that racism doesn't exist, but our whole culture around guns and weapons is so different. This whole thing is just mind blowing to me.