Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

[Shahaku]

Re: Happy Indigenous Peoples Day

So, a common reason Columbus is celebrated is because "he proved the Earth was round." This isn't true. Another reason that he's celebrated its because "he found America". This isn't true. Other celebrate him because he "settled America". This isn't true.

The first colony was English, even though the Spanish were the first to explore here. Before that, America was settled by, get this, Native Americans. Reinforcing the idea that this land was unsettled before the English founded colonies perpetuates the harm of colonization.

Columbus wasn't the first to come here, and his people didn't settle here before the English, so really he isn't that different from the Vikings who did the same thing, hundreds of years before. They came, found the Americas, traded with them, sometimes married them, or at least bred with them, and explored this land. That's what the Spanish did. The fact that the English from advantage of this rediscovered knowledge to colonize shouldn't be celebrated.

And though the Church fought the idea that the earth was round during the dark ages, and it has generally been accepted that people agreed the Earth was flat until the Americas were found, scholars have agreed for more than 2000 years that the earth is round and a planet. They just couldn't be vocal about it because they would have been executed.

[Juniper]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

I split off most of the posts from the Happy Indigenous People Day thread because a debate was happening in an inappropriate sub forum. This is the new home to continue discussing or debating Columbus, his actions, reasons for (or against) celebrating Columbus Day, etc.

[Bartmanhomer]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

Well the truth of the matter is that Christopher Columbus is a total jerk. It took me awhile to realized what kind of person he really is. So I heard it from one person at my job saying that he's a racist and a rapist. I was very shock to hear about the horrible truth about him. I'm very disgusted of what that guy did and for now on I'm going to celebrated Indigenous Peoples Day every year.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

.. I'm very disgusted of what that guy did and for now on I'm going to celebrated Indigenous Peoples Day every year.

Not trying to be an arse or anything here but in all seriousness what exactly are you going to be celebrating? Asking you BMH or anyone else who cares to answer.

Celebrating Indigenous Peoples of the World? Celebrating Indigenous Peoples of the America's only? Celebrating the Indigenous Peoples of the North American land mass? Celebrating the fact your not celebrating Columbus? Then just what are you doing to celebrate these Indigenous Peoples? Especially given nearly anything that is done which requires you to wear something, eat something, show something, say something, almost acknowledge something people today are screaming "Cultural Appropriation" by doing so. History wise almost nothing is being taught or shown about Indigenous culture's since each Indigenous group had a unique culture for the most part.

Figure there is no Native American Pantheon of divinities for instance but nearly 600 unique nations with their own histories, religious beliefs, creation stories, etc in North America alone.

Again not trying to be a smart arse here. I am truly interested in how people are trying to celebrate this and honor / recognize indigenous peoples in their own respective way. Not make it a "It's not a Columbus Day" generic holiday that is supposedly about native peoples from around the world.

[Bartmanhomer]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

Native Americans who discover America celebrated Indigenous Peoples Day.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

Not trying to be an arse or anything here but in all seriousness what exactly are you going to be celebrating? Asking you BMH or anyone else who cares to answer.

Celebrating Indigenous Peoples of the World? Celebrating Indigenous Peoples of the America's only? Celebrating the Indigenous Peoples of the North American land mass? Celebrating the fact your not celebrating Columbus? Then just what are you doing to celebrate these Indigenous Peoples? Especially given nearly anything that is done which requires you to wear something, eat something, show something, say something, almost acknowledge something people today are screaming "Cultural Appropriation" by doing so. History wise almost nothing is being taught or shown about Indigenous culture's since each Indigenous group had a unique culture for the most part.

Figure there is no Native American Pantheon of divinities for instance but nearly 600 unique nations with their own histories, religious beliefs, creation stories, etc in North America alone.

Again not trying to be a smart arse here. I am truly interested in how people are trying to celebrate this and honor / recognize indigenous peoples in their own respective way. Not make it a "It's not a Columbus Day" generic holiday that is supposedly about native peoples from around the world.

I work retail. If Indigenous People's Day takes off then it mostly amounts to "The Jack*** population increases because holiday" instead of the "The Jack*** population increases because holiday celebrating particularly evil Jack***". Mind you, that is still an improvement but my interest is almost entirely because Columbus offends me.

Granted, I am more than a bit jaded about holidays and even the ones that I actually care about still all bottomline at "Jack*** population increases" The only exception is Christmas which bottomlines at "Retail still believes that at least one day should be sacrosanct?!? YES!!!! How long will this last?" Someone less jaded may have a better answer.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

As children, we are told fairytales of perfect heros acting perfectly heroically.

Later, we find out these people were human, as are we, and embodied both in the temperament of the times in which they are born, and of the temperament with which they were born, and which allowed them to survive and rise to prominence in that time and place, and we hate them for it.

Someday we will stop looking for heroes in the past, and look for them in the now.


P.s I imagine that the holiday is to celebrate... Or maybe to merely acknowledge... all the pre-Columbian inhabitants of the Americas, what with "Native Americans" being a collective proper noun used to indicate all the pre-Columbian inhabitants of the Americas.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Celebrating Columbus Day; What's it really about?

.. P.s I imagine that the holiday is to celebrate... Or maybe to merely acknowledge... all the pre-Columbian inhabitants of the Americas, what with "Native Americans" being a collective proper noun used to indicate all the pre-Columbian inhabitants of the Americas.

That's one of the things I'm talking about. A few generations ago it was proper to call the 1st peoples and later "Native American's" and that went up to modern times. Now the argument I'm seeing and hearing more and more often is that is "colonialism" speaking. They aren't Native American's they are Indigenous Peoples.

However, realistically everyone is indigenous to the planet and the landmass from which they hail from. Doesn't matter whether they be Asian, European, African, Polynesian, etc. Then it is further broken down by specifics of some sort either by identification within their own peoples or by outside sources. They are still indigenous to the planet and landmass.

Take the Dakota, Lakota or Uglala they are still the Sioux to those outside that Nation but were their traditional enemies. Known as Native American's to people who are still less formal who only know them to be American Indian's from North America. No need to go into disrespectful terms we've all heard at one point or another probably.

But go onto more modern sites and groups and they want it known as "Indigenous Peoples". Now maybe people don't know the Cherokee are called the "Tsalagi" or the Navajo are called the "Dine" meaning "The People" or "Children of the Holy People" for instance but they never will if it's all lumped under Indigenous Peoples I think.

Of course that's just my opinion.